When I use True Strike with a [wprop]Cleave[/spells] weapon and hit, how do I use to resolve the additional attack from Cleave?
I don't see how True Strike would interact with Cleave at all apart from allowing Cleave to trigger (as long as your attack uses a melee attack roll that is).
When I use True Strike with a [wprop]Cleave[/spells] weapon and hit, how do I use to resolve the additional attack from Cleave?
I don't see how True Strike would interact with Cleave at all apart from allowing Cleave to trigger (as long as your attack uses a melee attack roll that is).
I don't feel like it is clear cut whether Cleave would use the normal attack bonus or the True Strike attack bonus. The same is true for the weapon damage. True Strike is an exception modifying the normal attack rules and Cleave is an exception to the number of attacks. If Cleave turns True Strike's one attack with a weapon used in the spell's casting into two attacks, why would the second attack have a different attack and damage (apart from not applying the attribute bonus to the damage)?
...why would the second attack have a different attack and damage
Can you answer why it would have the same? Doesn't true strike only work once? Isn't Cleave a 2nd attack? You have to roll to hit, so this is not "one attack" but a second one.
True Strike allows you to make one attack and applies to that. The cleave attack could be proc'ed from the True Strike attack, but would not benefit from the benefits of True Strike.
. . . Cleave is an exception to the number of attacks. If Cleave turns True Strike's one attack with a weapon used in the spell's casting into two attacks . . .
It's best not to think of it like that. Cleave does not turn one attack into two attacks. Cleave is its own thing that is triggered when certain prerequisites are met and you follow the rules that are listed in its description.
If your character has a feature that allows him to use the Cleave weapon mastery property and you wield a Cleave weapon during your True Strike (an instantaneous duration spell which provides one attack), then you have a chance of triggering the Cleave feature as a result of that first attack. That first attack must hit a creature with a melee attack roll using that Cleave weapon.
If all of those above prerequisites are met, then you follow the rules of the Cleave weapon mastery. By then, True Strike has already fully resolved. The next thing that happens is:
". . . you can make a melee attack roll with the weapon against a second creature within 5 feet of the first that is also within your reach. On a hit, the second creature takes the weapon’s damage, but don’t add your ability modifier to that damage unless that modifier is negative."
This is just a regular attack with a regular weapon with slightly reduced regular damage.
True Strike allows you to make one attack and applies to that. The cleave attack could be proc'ed from the True Strike attack, but would not benefit from the benefits of True Strike.
This. True strike has nothing to say about any extra attacks you might get because you made the TS attack, so they default to the normal rules.
In practice, it's not really a big deal, and simplifies your rolling, if the DM lets you use your caster stat for hit and damage on the cleave attack, but the TS damage shouldn't be re-applied, and that's firmly a house rule.
. . . Cleave is an exception to the number of attacks. If Cleave turns True Strike's one attack with a weapon used in the spell's casting into two attacks . . .
It's best not to think of it like that. Cleave does not turn one attack into two attacks. Cleave is its own thing that is triggered when certain prerequisites are met and you follow the rules that are listed in its description.
If your character has a feature that allows him to use the Cleave weapon mastery property and you wield a Cleave weapon during your True Strike (an instantaneous duration spell which provides one attack), then you have a chance of triggering the Cleave feature as a result of that first attack. That first attack must hit a creature with a melee attack roll using that Cleave weapon.
If all of those above prerequisites are met, then you follow the rules of the Cleave weapon mastery. By then, True Strike has already fully resolved. The next thing that happens is:
". . . you can make a melee attack roll with the weapon against a second creature within 5 feet of the first that is also within your reach. On a hit, the second creature takes the weapon’s damage, but don’t add your ability modifier to that damage unless that modifier is negative."
This is just a regular attack with a regular weapon with slightly reduced regular damage.
Since Cleave is not called out as a separate action, it is part of the same action and you are still under the effects of the True Strike spell. It might still be that the triggered melee attack is a standard weapon attack, but I feel like it is worded to explicitly support carrying over a melee spell attack with a weapon (which is not what True Strike does) triggering an extra melee spell attack.
Being part of the action doesn't have to mean carrying over the special properties of the action but should it in this case?
When I use True Strike with a Cleave weapon and hit, how do I use to resolve the additional attack from Cleave?
Is the spellcasting attribute to hit with either the normal weapon damage or radiant damage?
Edited to correct tooltip.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I don't see how True Strike would interact with Cleave at all apart from allowing Cleave to trigger (as long as your attack uses a melee attack roll that is).
I don't feel like it is clear cut whether Cleave would use the normal attack bonus or the True Strike attack bonus. The same is true for the weapon damage. True Strike is an exception modifying the normal attack rules and Cleave is an exception to the number of attacks. If Cleave turns True Strike's one attack with a weapon used in the spell's casting into two attacks, why would the second attack have a different attack and damage (apart from not applying the attribute bonus to the damage)?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Can you answer why it would have the same? Doesn't true strike only work once? Isn't Cleave a 2nd attack? You have to roll to hit, so this is not "one attack" but a second one.
True Strike allows you to make one attack and applies to that. The cleave attack could be proc'ed from the True Strike attack, but would not benefit from the benefits of True Strike.
It's best not to think of it like that. Cleave does not turn one attack into two attacks. Cleave is its own thing that is triggered when certain prerequisites are met and you follow the rules that are listed in its description.
If your character has a feature that allows him to use the Cleave weapon mastery property and you wield a Cleave weapon during your True Strike (an instantaneous duration spell which provides one attack), then you have a chance of triggering the Cleave feature as a result of that first attack. That first attack must hit a creature with a melee attack roll using that Cleave weapon.
If all of those above prerequisites are met, then you follow the rules of the Cleave weapon mastery. By then, True Strike has already fully resolved. The next thing that happens is:
". . . you can make a melee attack roll with the weapon against a second creature within 5 feet of the first that is also within your reach. On a hit, the second creature takes the weapon’s damage, but don’t add your ability modifier to that damage unless that modifier is negative."
This is just a regular attack with a regular weapon with slightly reduced regular damage.
This. True strike has nothing to say about any extra attacks you might get because you made the TS attack, so they default to the normal rules.
In practice, it's not really a big deal, and simplifies your rolling, if the DM lets you use your caster stat for hit and damage on the cleave attack, but the TS damage shouldn't be re-applied, and that's firmly a house rule.
First, thanks for going down this thought exercise with me. I lean towards using the standard weapon properties, but I am not certain it is correct.
Since Cleave is not called out as a separate action, it is part of the same action and you are still under the effects of the True Strike spell. It might still be that the triggered melee attack is a standard weapon attack, but I feel like it is worded to explicitly support carrying over a melee spell attack with a weapon (which is not what True Strike does) triggering an extra melee spell attack.
Being part of the action doesn't have to mean carrying over the special properties of the action but should it in this case?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.