Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Again, this is a perfectly reasonable way to rule it, but there's nothing in the rules that actually specifies these things have to happen in that order.
pronouns: he/she/they
Not sure if this helps, but the feature was also commented in the pre-release video New Wizard | 2024 Player's Handbook (min. 08:53)
It is in the rules, you've already gained level 2 spell slot when you gain the Wizard Subclass and can make a choice to become an Illunionist, because Spellcasting is a feature you already have that upgrade before you get to Record New Class Features and Make any choices offered by a new feature.
The video TarodNet posted also have the Devs explain how the Abjurer is intended to apply new Abjurations spells after.
All the things happen in step 3. So you could easily make your subclass choice first and record those features first. It never says what order you must record class features in.
If there's any order, it should be reading the wizard table left to right, and the subclass comes first. I'm not going to argue that, because I don't think there is a prescribed order.
(And as a matter of practice, every player I know makes subclass decisions before they even look at spells or spell slots).
If you want to be convincing, show me the rules text that says spell slots aren't a class feature (going to be hard, they're explicitly called a class feature under multiclassing on p25 of the SRD), or otherwise that there's a specific order to gaining class features.
That word 'thereafter', it isn't in the actual Savant rule. That's kind of the problem.
(I'm not even sure I trust one guy doing a podcast interview to be accurately stating Intention, either. But let's limit this to RAW.)
Spellcasting is not a New Class Feature you record at step 3, it's already recorded at level 1 and automatically upgrade when you level up, before you record any New Class Feature and make choice offered by a new feature.
You have a rule quote on that, or are you just making that up?
Because it looks to me that you update spell slots as a class feature thing, in step 3. Just like you choose your two spells for gaining a wizard level, even though its part of an existing class feature, at step 3. ie, the spells themselves are a new class feature, even though its part of an existing feature. Similarly, the new slots are new features, even if having slots is part of spellcasting.
There is no point you 'update existing features'. You choose which class the level will be in, then you update your hp (which is specifically called out, even though its part of an existing class feature), then you do class features. There's no separate 'update class features' step, its part of step 3. (The phrasing of step 3 certainly implies that anything in the table is included in that step, so new spell slots definitely fall here).
I did already quote the rules. Spellcasting is not a new class feature you gain at your new level, its one you got at level 1 and upgrade upon level up.
And new spell slots are in your class features table, and thus new class features. (As are new prepared spells).
Where's that quote on updating existing class features and when that occurs? Because I can't find it. (It's clearly not automatic, because hp gets its own step).
It does not say anywhere in those rules that you must upgrade existing class features before recording new ones.
pronouns: he/she/they
Not only that, spell slots are explicitly features, as they're found on the class features table. The wizard text:
"The Wizard Features table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your level 1+ spells." (emphasis added)
The whole table is features, and spell slots are part of the wizard features. New spell slots are therefore new features, not an existing feature.
The updating occurs as part of the class feature Spellcasting itself.
Spell slots are in Wizard Features table in which the Class Feature is only a part, where you record New Class Feature appear.
For example at level 7 a Wizard doesn't gain New Class feature to record as shown by —, but get new spells slots nonetheless as well as new spells.
it gets new spell slots, which are new features, because they're part of the Wizard Features table. (I would say Wizard 7 does gain new features, they're just spells prepared and slots, so the '-' is simply that there's no text for that column. It is, after all, the "Wizard Features table", everything in it is a feature).
Regardless, where's the rule on when you update existing features? You still haven't demonstrated that happens first.
(The absence of any such rule, and the direction to the table in step 3, strongly suggests all feature-related updates are part of step 3. Regardless, even pure RAW, the absence of any rule giving a specific time would mean you can update your features at any point you choose during level up, not that they happen first. You need a rule that specifically says they happen first for that to be true.)
It doesn't need to, it automatically does in the Spell Slot For Level in the Wizard Features table
I'm sorry, I am just not seeing in that table whatever it is that you're seeing. I don't know what to tell you.
pronouns: he/she/they
You may as well say the proficiency bonus automatically updates. It still gets a timing in the level up rules. (And then you're specifically instructed to change all the things proficiency affects, even though that is 'automatic').
The level up rules are to guide players through physically changing their character sheets (hence why proficiency and attribute bonuses are specifically called out). It's not world mechanics on how level ups happen! Nothing is "automatic", because the piece of paper doesn't automatically change. Adding new spells to your spell book, new prepared spells, and new slots, are all character sheet changes. So either there's an explicit specific time you do that according to the rules, or there isn't, and you do that whenever you like during level up.
Show us the rule that says these happen immediately on choosing which class you're gaining the level in.
For the record, here's the explicit sequence of events according to the SRD:
"1: Choose a Class. Most characters advance in the same class. However, you might decide to gain a level in another class using the rules in the “Multiclassing” section.
2: Adjust Hit Points and Hit Point Dice. Each time you gain a level, you gain an additional Hit Die. Roll that die, add your Constitution modifier to the roll, and add the total (minimum of 1) to your Hit Point maximum. Instead of rolling, you can use the fixed value shown in the Fixed Hit Points by Class table. (Table omitted)
3: Record New Class Features. Look at your class features table in “Classes,” and note the features you gain at your new level in that class. Make any choices offered by a new feature.
4: Adjust Proficiency Bonus. A character’s Proficiency Bonus increases at certain levels, as shown in the Character Advancement table and your class features table in “Classes.” When your Proficiency Bonus increases, increase all the numbers on your character sheet that include your Proficiency Bonus.
5: Adjust Ability Modifiers. If you choose a feat that increases one or more of your ability scores, your ability modifier also changes if the new score is an even number. When that happens, adjust all the numbers on your character sheet that use that ability modifier. When your Constitution modifier increases by 1, your Hit Point maximum increases by 1 for each level you have attained. For example, if a character reaches level 8 and increases their Constitution score from 17 to 18, the Constitution modifier increases to +4. The character’s Hit Point maximum then increases by 8, in addition to the Hit Points gained for reaching level 8."
Look at how specific this is to the mechanics of physically changing a character sheet, especially #s 2, 4, and 5. Step 1 is literally just choosing the class the level will be in - nothing else is updated at this point because you aren't directed to update anything.
Also note that #3 asks you to "note the features you gain", not just the new features, even though it calls out new features in the next sentence.
Nowhere here does it ask you to update or make choices for existing features, so either that's included in step 3 under "features you gain", or despite being a walkthrough for updating a physical character sheet, you're never tasked with "updating existing features".
(Humorous aside: apparently if you have an odd attribute score and you increase it by 2, you don't get to change your attribute modifier, because you only get to do that if the new score is even! Oy...)
"The Wizard Features table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your level 1+ spells."
Nothing about the feature has any "updating" to do. The moment you level up, you just have those spell slots automatically. That you have to mark them on the paper is irrelevant. Therefore, by the time you get to feature selection, they automatically already exist.
This isn't difficult, and anyone trying to deprive a character of this is definitely trying to win the "most pedantic person at the table" trophy.
Everything is 'automatic' in that sense, as you gain all those things for being that level of Wizard. The Savant feature automatically exists, too. It's all part of the wizard table, and they all "automatically" exist. (Having a choice involved doesn't make it not automatic, you can't not make the choice).
Care to explain why updating proficiency bonus and attribute bonus affects on formulae are explicitly described even though those are unarguably 'automatic' by any definition? Mathematically automatic.
The only reason there's an order to level up is physically recording things on the character sheet.
(I'm unsure what you're trying to say with your 'deprive' line. The only party trying to 'deprive' anyone of anything in this case is those arguing the Savant feature doesn't give you an extra spell in the spellbook at level 3 for gaining a new level of spell slot. That's the only practical difference being argued here).
No one is trying to "deprive" you of anything. They're trying to stop you from blatantly cheating. If you're level 3, you automatically gained access to a new spell level, whether you put it on your sheet or not. You cannot gain your subclass without being level 3, therefore, by the time you want to use your savant feature, you do not meet the qualification of "gain[ing] access to a new level of spell slots in this class" because you must by definition already have the new level to use the savant feature at all.
If I was running a game, I would not allow a player attempt to weasel their way into getting a third [subclass school] spell for free at level 3, and the only thing further weaseling would do is annoy me.