Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Okay, I'm on mobile and definitely misread a bit because of that. Savant effectively grants a total of 9 spells of your subclass over the course of your progression, assuming you reach Wizard 17. That's 1 per spell level (though you don't HAVE to pick one of each level, you can pick lower).
The "in addition" part of Savant doesn't see you gaining the level 2 spell slots at the same time that you gain the feature, that's accounted for by gaining 2 spells immediately.
But RAW, it doesn't say 'thereafter' or similar, it just says you gain one every time you get a spell slot level, and you do gain a spell slot level at level 3. (In addition is additional to those 2, ie, those 2 aren't instead of gaining one for gaining a spell slot level).
You can call it weaseling, but I'm just following what the words actually say.
And you "automatically" gain a subclass at level 3, too. I don't see any difference between spell slots and subclass features in terms of what they are or when you gain them. (You can't gain that spell slot without being level 3, either, it's equivalent.)
If you'd like to quote the rules that say otherwise, be my guest. Your houserules are only of interest to me if I'm playing in your game.
The ability clearly applies to any spell slot levels gained after you gain the ability.
No, you are not following what the words actually say. You're trying to use weaseling to cheat. There's no point in trying to quote rules to someone who won't read them in good faith anyway.
Hopefully any DM you try this on will recognize that and disallow you from attempting it.
Well, for what it's worth, in the character creator you're offered two picks at 3rd level, not three, for the "X Savant" feature. I would consider that to be indicative of the RAI and clarification of how you should parse the RAW.
While I'm on the "2 spells at level 3" side, the Beyond features for that have been broken from day 1, I wouldn't use that for anything.
I'm not even sure what you mean, here. You're throwing around "weaseling" as if it had some objective accepted meaning. I'm interpreting the text that exists. That things like specific word choice matters for how we read language isn't "weaseling". And it's not cheating if that's what the rules say.
No one has managed to produce a rules quote that says what you claim the rules say. Kind of a problem.
The rules say you get to add an illusion spell to your spellbook whenever you gain a new level of spell slots. You gain a new level of spell slots at 3rd level. Ergo, you gain an illusion spell to your spellbook. It also says this is in addition to the two spells you get at third level, and quite explicitly. (It literally uses "In addition").
What it does not say is that this additional spell when you gain a new level of spell slots only starts at subsequent levels after 3rd level / 2nd spell level. It would have been really easy to word it that way, but they didn't. Simply replacing "In addition" with "Thereafter" would have done it. The rules are clear, they just don't read the way you think they do.
(To me, to 'weasel' is to use intentionally vague words to avoid saying what you mean. It's not something you can even do when interpreting text.)
The ability is pretty clearly talking about subsequent occurrences. The rules operate in an inclusionary way. Since the ability tells you "Do x when you take this ability ... In addition,..." it's not meant to grant a third spell on the spot.
Here it is. Step 3 is recording new class features. The last step of step 3 is to make any choices offered by a new feature. Second Level Spells is not a new feature. It is an upgrade to the level 1 feature of Wizard. This happens as soon as you are a level 3 Wizard, which happens at step 1. Steps 2 and 4 may vary depending on whether you multiclass or not. Step 2 also requires a choice regarding whether to roll or not. Step 5 on applies to certain levels, but does tell us that selection of Feats is the last step in levelling up. I can't think of a scenario where that would matter.
However, you and Plaguescarred (in comment 20) both quoted the rules defining why 2 spells at level 3 is RAW. TarodNet posted a video showing why 2 spells at level 3 is RAI. When there are several rules at play and you need to focus on one sentence to make your interpretation work, you are probably in the wrong.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
As I explained to Plaguescarred, nothing happens at step 1 except declaring your next level will be Wizard (and incrementing your wizard level on your character sheet). Nothing is automatic. This is a walkthrough for physically updating your character sheet, as #4 and #5 make abundantly clear. Look at how specific 2, 4, and 5 are about what you do. If updating existing features was part of Step 1, it would explicitly say to do so. So nothing happens at step 1 besides choosing what your new class level is.
Updating existing features is either part of Step 3 (my preferred interpretation), or not part of any step (and can be done at any time during level up). There is zero support in the rules for anything happening at step 1 besides changing the number next to your class to the new level in that class you are.
You seem to be interpreting the level up order as some sort of in-game process. It's not. It's a walkthrough of physically updating your character sheet with pencil and paper. Most of the steps as described make no sense outside that context.
(You also are ignoring that new spell slots are new features. They appear in the Wizard Features table. So the second level spell slot is no different than the subclass at level 3 - both are new features of the wizard class at that level).
There is zero support in the rules that you gain spell slots or anything else related to class features at step 1. (If you wish to show otherwise, quote rules that actually say that. Those rules just say you choose your class for your next level. That's it).
(And you're wrong that making choices is the last step of Step 3. Nothing in the text indicates an order to doing those things within Step 3. You note the features, and you make any choices. It doesn't say you note the features then you make any choices. You can note features and make choices for features in any order - that just all happens at this step. In fact, for a feature with a choice, like Subclass, you probably should make your choice before you note it!)
(And you're technically wrong about Step 5. You choose feats at Step 3. But you only update Attribute Modifiers at Step 5. ie, if you choose a feat that gave +1 Con, you'd change your Con at Step 3, but you wouldn't update the Con modifier until Step 5. Hence why the step is called Adjust Ability Modifiers).
And Tarodnet posted a video of one designer talking informally on a podcast interview and using a word that appears nowhere in the rule, which, if it had appeared in the rule, would substantially change what the rule says. That has no weight as far as I'm concerned. If they'd really intended the word to be there, they should have actually put it there in the print copy. And frankly, I don't care about RAI, because I think it's unknowable. (Even if you got the entire game design team who worked on the book to sit down and answer questions, their thoughts will have changed since they actually did the design work, and they won't remember exactly what they were thinking. As far as I'm concerned, what they wrote is what they intended. Full stop. These things are effectively written by committee, and no one gets exactly what they want. So one designer's idea of the intention is probably wrong every single time.)
Spell slots are not new features. They come from the level 1 feature Spellcasting (subheading Spell Slots), and the table is merely telling you how that feature works.
Which part of "In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Illusion school to your spellbook for free." is 'pretty clearly talking about subsequent occurrences'?
"Whenever" is, definitionally, all occurrences, not just subsequent ones.
Operating in an inclusionary way means you do all the things it says, not just some of the things. So you get the two spells, and additionally you get a spell every time you gain a new spell slot level. Every time. Not just subsequent times.
I have no idea why you think that's 'pretty clear' in the way you're reading it. (I think it's pretty clear - in the opposite direction). But please, analyze the language.
I disagree. The Spellcasting feature does not give you spell slots, it refers you to the Wizard Features table so you can check how many you have, since you need them to use your spellcasting feature. But it's not the spellcasting feature that gives you the slots (as the spellcasting feature never says it gives you slots). The slots are an independent feature of the class, provided by the table.
Regardless, I don't think this matters significantly. I think all feature-related things happen at Step 3, in any order the player chooses, because the level up process is strictly about updating your pencil-and-paper character sheet, and that's the only time it tells you to do feature related stuff.
If they wanted you to get the additional effects on this level, they would have included a bit of text such as "In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, including when you gain this ability, you can..."
However, you're also wrong about spell slots being a gained class feature.
They are a persistent quality of the Spellcasting feature you gain at level 1.
However, you are wrong. Look at Spellbook, a level 1 feature of Wizard.
Spellbook is not a new feature at level 3. During Step 1, you gain additional spells for being a level 3 Wizard, per the table that shows that you have your 2nd level spells. This is all processed at step 1. The alternative is that it never happens and that is clearly not true.
The same is true of the rest of the Spellcasting level 1 Wizard class feature.
Emphasis added.
Emphasis added again.
When do you increase your Wizard level? Step 1.
New spell slots are given to you by your level Spellcasting feature. If you were an Eldritch Knight or an Arcane Trickster, it would be a level 3 feature, but for everyone else, it is a level 1 feature. Only the column labeled Class Features represents a class feature, nothing else. Proficiency Bonus is not a class feature as it advances by character level instead of class level. The number of Cantrips, Prepared Spells, and Spell Slots are not class features on their own. Instead, these columns are references used by the level 1 Spellcasting Class Feature.
No. I am not. It is a sequential list. A list where the order does not matter uses bullets.
Within the list item, you note the features you gain. Stop. New sentence. Make any choices offered by a new feature. You cannot make choices for a subclass, in this case, before receiving the subclass feature.
Good catch on this one. You do indeed choose feats at step 3, but you do so after you receive the class feature which is after you become a level 4, 8, 12, 16, or 19 Wizard.
A video of the LEAD DESIGNER on the OFFICIAL D&D YouTube Channel. Check the Credits page of your book.
They did. We have explained multiple times how you are misreading the rule.
The Lead Designer's statements on an official promotional YouTube video for the new edition on the official D&D channel are pretty knowable. It should be taken as an indication of RAI, not RAW. It is, however, consistent with the RAW, as several of us have posted here.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Yeah, the Dev was explaining the book, reading and interpreting the rules as written. You can take it or not, Squirrelloid, but if the Lead Designer explains it that way, why not believe him?
It seems to me you already had your own ruling before creating this thread.
Its very simple, in order to become an Illusionist, you must be 3rd level Wizard and as such, you have spell slots 4/2.
A proof of this is that the 2 Illusion spells you get can be level 2, considering each spells you learn must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
You're explicitly allowed to choose level 2 spells, so it doesn't matter what slots you have at the moment you get the feature.
His intention in the interview may not have been the intention when it was written. Nor do I think human memory is infallible. If it was not written down (and that writing being read from), who knows what their intention was 6 months earlier when the passage was actually written?
And being the lead designer doesn't make him the only designer. Design on a multi-author project is design by committee. He likely didn't even write the rule, so he probably had no intention regarding it at all. He's communicating his understanding, not his intention. And he uses a key word that whomever did write it did not use and that would have substantially changed the meaning of the passage.
I don't need his understanding. I have the words that were published. If they don't match his understanding, that's him being wrong.
You're just so horribly wrong here on pretty much everything, because you're confusing a walkthrough for writing things on your character sheet with an in-game mechanical description. You receive all your features immediately on gaining a wizard level. Step 3 is not "Receive New Class Features", it's "Record Class Features", that is, write them down on your character sheet. But you got them automatically when you chose the wizard level (ie, you already received them, you just need to write them down).
You're confusing a walkthrough for physically updating your character sheet with an in-game mechanical description of how leveling up works. These are not the same thing.
Compare: when you choose your next level as wizard, your character sheet doesn't immediately change to add two spells to your spellbook or add new slots. You have to record those things. (This also happens at Step 3 - that's the only reading that makes sense, because that's when you're recording class feature things on your sheet. It makes no sense to say you record them at step 1, because step 1 says nothing about anything even related to that. Step 1 is literally just choose your class for the level, nothing else, with no indication you do anything besides increment that number on your character sheet). The process of physically updating your character sheet is choose class, roll hp, record features, update proficiency bonus, update attribute bonuses.
But game mechanically, you get all those things immediately when you level up. There's no process by which your character in-game gains part of their level, and then another part, and then another part.
I mean, this should have been immediately apparent from step 4. Your proficiency bonus updating things which depend on the proficiency bonus is mathematically automatic. The only reason to tell us to go update all the affected bonuses is because we need to implement the math on our paper character sheet so we have the correct numbers.
And you're wrong about the ordering in step 3. Bullet points are not the only way to say you can do things in any order - doing a list of things in any order is the default in English, even if they're in separate sentences. (And stylistically, no one uses bullet points for a list of two things, ever. It would be poor writing). If there was an order, it would use an ordering word like "then" or "next" (or "first", "second" for each substep). If i'm heading to the grocery store, and I'm asked to "Get milk. Stop by the deli counter and get some lunch meat. Don't forget the eggs." that's not an ordered list. I don't need to get those things in that order, despite being separate sentences. Indeed, the milk and eggs are probably near each other, while the deli counter could be on the other side of the store. I can do those things in any order.
And indeed, you need to make choices before you note the feature you're making the choice for, because noting = recording = writing down on your character sheet, and you're going to write Illusionist, not Subclass, so you need to make that choice before you record it.
While that would be clearer, it's not logically necessary, as your bold text only restates what is already naturally meant by "whenever".
Contrast "Thereafter, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class,..." This limits the scope of whenever to only apply after third level (because the previous sentence tells you to do something at 3rd level, so thereafter causes this sentence to only possibly trigger on subsequent levels).
At the very least, barring text clarifying one way or the other, can we at least agree the rules do not explicitly say one way or the other. (I don't think 'whenever' is ambiguous, but I'm willing to agree there could have been clarifying text strengthening the natural reading of 'whenever').