What happens if you cast the spell while underwater? It specifically talks about freezing the surface if it 'strikes' a body of water, but it's not doing that, it's already underwater, and it doesn't make sense to freeze the surface.
It doesn't make sense, but that is the RAW of the spell. There are a few potential rulings:
The globe strikes a point underwater and freezes the surface of the water, applying the restrained condition as normal.
The globe strikes a point underwater and freezes a 6" think portion of that square, applying the restrained condition to creatures swimming in the area.
The globe is blocked by the body of water and triggers one of the above rulings in the caster's space.
Hm. On reflection, I don't actually care much about what RAW is, I was just considering spells for an underwater encounter and freezing large quantities of water seemed interesting, though obviously a giant block of ice would be a bit much. Might rule that Wall of Ice can be cast underwater without being on a surface.
If cast under water, wouldn't the ice immediately float to the surface of the water?
Well, that depends on your definition of immediately. Ice is less dense than water, but it's not a lot less dense than water, and water has a lot of drag, so it's not going to move super fast (depends heavily on shape and size; using a value of 30'/turn will not be wildly wrong).
I'd rule, since the globe is created already underwater, it doesn't "strike" the water per se, so that part of the spell's effect is not used. So I'd apply just the normal explosion effects:
A frigid globe streaks from you to a point of your choice within range, where it explodes in a 60-foot-radius Sphere. Each creature in that area makes a Constitution saving throw, taking 10d6 Cold damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
Thinking about it, RAW doesn't handle non-default environments well. I would say that you should treat the water underwater as just air under the surface of water except as described in Underwater Combat (PHB) and Visibility Underwater (DMG). Plaguescarred's interpretation is, IMO, the most technically accurate rules interpretation, but I think practically, it should be handled differently (As TarodNet described).
I agree with you the coe rules don't really address other environments. One thing is sure to me is that since you can be underwater or attack through one, it shouldn't be considered Total Cover for the purposes of determining if you have A Clear Path to the Target.
But since Otiluke's Freezing Sphere specifically address when the globe strikes a body of water, then we have some guidance on such outcome.
How i interpret it casting it underwater the moment your frigid globe streaks from you, it strikes a body of water and freezes it.
And then a century later, you are found by a couple kids from the Southern Water Tribe and brought out of suspended animation
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Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Under 2e this was the answer. "When cast underwater, the frigid globe of absolute zero matter instantly freezes the surrounding water into a block of ice. The volume of ice formed is 50 cubic feet per caster level, potentially trapping the caster in a solid block of ice. " They don't do scaling per level anymore but I'd stick with the basic idea and maybe go with 500 cubic feet or something. Which is close to the 6 inch thick 30by 30 rule.
The 6 inch deep is clearly based on the idea of a beam striking the surface when you are outside of it, I think it would freeze different if it struck while you were deep in it.
Thinking about it, RAW doesn't handle non-default environments well. I would say that you should treat the water underwater as just air under the surface of water except as described in Underwater Combat (PHB) and Visibility Underwater (DMG). Plaguescarred's interpretation is, IMO, the most technically accurate rules interpretation, but I think practically, it should be handled differently (As TarodNet described).
I agree with you the coe rules don't really address other environments. One thing is sure to me is that since you can be underwater or attack through one, it shouldn't be considered Total Cover for the purposes of determining if you have A Clear Path to the Target.
But since Otiluke's Freezing Sphere specifically address when the globe strikes a body of water, then we have some guidance on such outcome.
Regarding casting underwater, I remember a couple of threads if they are useful to folks on this thread or future visitors:
If cast under water, wouldn't the ice immediately float to the surface of the water?
who says ice has the same density relative to water in dnd land?
That the ice created by Otiluke's Frozen Sphere will float to the surface has been the case since 1st Edition D&D. I checked my old 1st ed DMG and there is a section discussing "underwater adventures" and within that section are special DM guidance on how certain spells will perform. These rules were carried over to 2e. There were originally three ways to use the spell now there is just two. The main use (described first) is remarkably unchanged in 5e. And I will note that the DMG (1e and 2e) says that the ice IMMEDIATELY floats to the surface, meaning it is very buoyant. Immediately does not mean instantaneously, but it's still basically pretty fast. And then it does mention that the sphere would encase the caster in ice, who will die pretty quickly of suffocation if other members of his party don't release him.
I'd rule, since the globe is created already underwater, it doesn't "strike" the water per se, so that part of the spell's effect is not used. So I'd apply just the normal explosion effects:
A frigid globe streaks from you to a point of your choice within range, where it explodes in a 60-foot-radius Sphere. Each creature in that area makes a Constitution saving throw, taking 10d6 Cold damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one.
Unfortunately the globe has a temperature of absolute zero, as soon as the globe leaves the caster's hand it strikes water (because the caster is underwater) and therefore cannot streak away any further, and freezes a block of ice around the caster with a volume = (50 cubic feet) x Caster level. I guess along with anyone/anything within that block. The 50 cubic feet times level of caster is from old 1e and 2e DMG. If we want to derive the volume from 5e rules, using what happens when a caster on dry land strikes the surface of water then that's 6" thick x 30sq-ft = 15 cubic feet. That's a lot less cubic feet. So...if you use that, then maybe the underwater caster's torso is encased in 15 cubic feet of ice (which lasts for one minute) and his head is outside the ice, but he still floats to the surface.
I think the 5e version is 900 square feet 450 cubic. They phrase it as 30 feet square vs 30 square feet. I think they are calling it like their areas like 20 foot cube is 20 by 20 by 20, so this is a 30 by 30 area 6 inches deep. So its pretty close to what you'd get from 1e/2e without level scaling, Though they would be 550 not 450.
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What happens if you cast the spell while underwater? It specifically talks about freezing the surface if it 'strikes' a body of water, but it's not doing that, it's already underwater, and it doesn't make sense to freeze the surface.
It doesn't make sense, but that is the RAW of the spell. There are a few potential rulings:
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Hm. On reflection, I don't actually care much about what RAW is, I was just considering spells for an underwater encounter and freezing large quantities of water seemed interesting, though obviously a giant block of ice would be a bit much. Might rule that Wall of Ice can be cast underwater without being on a surface.
If cast under water, wouldn't the ice immediately float to the surface of the water?
Yes, unless it was anchored to something or something sufficiently heavy was embedded within it.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Well, that depends on your definition of immediately. Ice is less dense than water, but it's not a lot less dense than water, and water has a lot of drag, so it's not going to move super fast (depends heavily on shape and size; using a value of 30'/turn will not be wildly wrong).
who says ice has the same density relative to water in dnd land?
I'd rule, since the globe is created already underwater, it doesn't "strike" the water per se, so that part of the spell's effect is not used. So I'd apply just the normal explosion effects:
How i interpret it casting it underwater the moment your frigid globe streaks from you, it strikes a body of water and freezes it.
Thinking about it, RAW doesn't handle non-default environments well. I would say that you should treat the water underwater as just air under the surface of water except as described in Underwater Combat (PHB) and Visibility Underwater (DMG). Plaguescarred's interpretation is, IMO, the most technically accurate rules interpretation, but I think practically, it should be handled differently (As TarodNet described).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I agree with you the coe rules don't really address other environments. One thing is sure to me is that since you can be underwater or attack through one, it shouldn't be considered Total Cover for the purposes of determining if you have A Clear Path to the Target.
But since Otiluke's Freezing Sphere specifically address when the globe strikes a body of water, then we have some guidance on such outcome.
And then a century later, you are found by a couple kids from the Southern Water Tribe and brought out of suspended animation
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
While casting it underwater can be dangerous, you can refrain from firing the globe after completing the spell's casting.
Under 2e this was the answer. "When cast underwater, the frigid globe of absolute zero matter instantly freezes the surrounding water into a block of ice. The volume of ice formed is 50 cubic feet per caster level, potentially trapping the caster in a solid block of ice. " They don't do scaling per level anymore but I'd stick with the basic idea and maybe go with 500 cubic feet or something. Which is close to the 6 inch thick 30by 30 rule.
The 6 inch deep is clearly based on the idea of a beam striking the surface when you are outside of it, I think it would freeze different if it struck while you were deep in it.
Regarding casting underwater, I remember a couple of threads if they are useful to folks on this thread or future visitors:
- Can You Misty Step Through A Door With a Window? What Is A Space You Can See?
- Teleportation Circle and "nearest unoccupied space"
PS. And yeah, my ruling is more practical than technical, I agree with that :)
That the ice created by Otiluke's Frozen Sphere will float to the surface has been the case since 1st Edition D&D. I checked my old 1st ed DMG and there is a section discussing "underwater adventures" and within that section are special DM guidance on how certain spells will perform. These rules were carried over to 2e. There were originally three ways to use the spell now there is just two. The main use (described first) is remarkably unchanged in 5e. And I will note that the DMG (1e and 2e) says that the ice IMMEDIATELY floats to the surface, meaning it is very buoyant. Immediately does not mean instantaneously, but it's still basically pretty fast. And then it does mention that the sphere would encase the caster in ice, who will die pretty quickly of suffocation if other members of his party don't release him.
Unfortunately the globe has a temperature of absolute zero, as soon as the globe leaves the caster's hand it strikes water (because the caster is underwater) and therefore cannot streak away any further, and freezes a block of ice around the caster with a volume = (50 cubic feet) x Caster level. I guess along with anyone/anything within that block. The 50 cubic feet times level of caster is from old 1e and 2e DMG. If we want to derive the volume from 5e rules, using what happens when a caster on dry land strikes the surface of water then that's 6" thick x 30sq-ft = 15 cubic feet. That's a lot less cubic feet. So...if you use that, then maybe the underwater caster's torso is encased in 15 cubic feet of ice (which lasts for one minute) and his head is outside the ice, but he still floats to the surface.
I think the 5e version is 900 square feet 450 cubic. They phrase it as 30 feet square vs 30 square feet. I think they are calling it like their areas like 20 foot cube is 20 by 20 by 20, so this is a 30 by 30 area 6 inches deep. So its pretty close to what you'd get from 1e/2e without level scaling, Though they would be 550 not 450.