Are there any rules in 2024 or has there been any errata that answers the question in the title of this thread?
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The spell is the same, but the PHB section on damage and healing is different. The 2014 PHB says "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." while the 2024 one states "When you create a damaging effect that forces two or more targets to make saving throws against it at the same time, roll the damage once for all the targets." Because Magic Missile does not involve any saving throw, some argue that you have to roll separately for each dart in 2024.
I’ve always rolled for each dart individually: until now, it had not occurred to me that there was an alternative interpretation. I can’t see anything in the language which definitively favours one over the other.
Personally, I prefer rolling individually, as it’s less swingy that rolling once for all the darts. The highest and lowest results much less frequently with the former method than with the latter. Magic Missile is for reliable, not spectacular, damage, so I prefer the method that gives more reliable results.
The spell is the same, but the PHB section on damage and healing is different. The 2014 PHB says "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." while the 2024 one states "When you create a damaging effect that forces two or more targets to make saving throws against it at the same time, roll the damage once for all the targets." Because Magic Missile does not involve any saving throw, some argue that you have to roll separately for each dart in 2024.
Honestly, that's pretty definitive. It would also apply to any other abilities that do damage to multiple targets without a save, if any others exist (I can't think of any off hand).
Previously you rolled once due to the 'affects multiple targets' thing. Under that ruleset, did you roll for each missile if you were only targeting ONE creature?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Previously you rolled once due to the 'affects multiple targets' thing. Under that ruleset, did you roll for each missile if you were only targeting ONE creature?
In play I don't think anyone actually made that distinction -- either they rolled once or they rolled per missile.
Previously you rolled once due to the 'affects multiple targets' thing. Under that ruleset, did you roll for each missile if you were only targeting ONE creature?
In play I don't think anyone actually made that distinction -- either they rolled once or they rolled per missile.
There were some effects that added damage to a single damage roll for spells, which if you roll all of the darts from Magic Missile together, would multiply the effect by the number of darts. In 2014, there was a build called the "Nuclear Wizard" where an Evocation Wizard 17/Fighter 2/Hexblade 1 multiclass could use both Empowered Evocation and Hexblade's Curse on every dart, causing each dart to deal 1d4+12 force damage. At high levels, this build could Action Surge and use 8th & 9th level spell slots for the castings, sending out 21 darts in a turn for a total damage of 21d4+252 (304.5 average). And if the Wizard had the foresight to cast Simulacrum before the fight....very few monsters could survive even a single round from this build if they had the spell slots to burn (the Tarrasque being a notable exception with it's Reflective Carapace feature).
Given the wording that was mentioned in Post #3, it would make sense under the 2024 rules to roll damage individually for each dart.
However, keep in mind that this spell description explicitly says that all of the darts strike simultaneously. So, even though people don't often play this way, the best way to run it is to have the spellcaster declare which darts are hitting which targets ahead of time before any damage is known / resolved.
I'm not quite sure how to read your examples. But my point was just that the player / character should not be able to use knowledge of how the damage for the first dart resolved before targeting the 2nd dart, and so on. For example, an enemy might only have 1HP remaining but that's of course unknown to the player. If the player really wants to make sure that that enemy is reduced to 0 then he might decide to go ahead and target that enemy with all 3 darts, and of course the 2nd and 3rd darts in that case would do nothing. You don't get to see that the first dart was enough to bring the enemy down and then use that information to decide to target a different enemy with the second dart. Compare against the wording for Scorching Ray where it is more reasonable to run it such that the attack and damage is resolved one at a time.
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Are there any rules in 2024 or has there been any errata that answers the question in the title of this thread?
Nope. The wording of the spell has not changed and there has been no official ruling on it.
When I'm DMing I have people roll a single damage roll, just because that's simpler and faster.
pronouns: he/she/they
The spell is the same, but the PHB section on damage and healing is different. The 2014 PHB says "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." while the 2024 one states "When you create a damaging effect that forces two or more targets to make saving throws against it at the same time, roll the damage once for all the targets." Because Magic Missile does not involve any saving throw, some argue that you have to roll separately for each dart in 2024.
I’ve always rolled for each dart individually: until now, it had not occurred to me that there was an alternative interpretation. I can’t see anything in the language which definitively favours one over the other.
Personally, I prefer rolling individually, as it’s less swingy that rolling once for all the darts. The highest and lowest results much less frequently with the former method than with the latter. Magic Missile is for reliable, not spectacular, damage, so I prefer the method that gives more reliable results.
Honestly, that's pretty definitive. It would also apply to any other abilities that do damage to multiple targets without a save, if any others exist (I can't think of any off hand).
Previously you rolled once due to the 'affects multiple targets' thing. Under that ruleset, did you roll for each missile if you were only targeting ONE creature?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
In play I don't think anyone actually made that distinction -- either they rolled once or they rolled per missile.
There were some effects that added damage to a single damage roll for spells, which if you roll all of the darts from Magic Missile together, would multiply the effect by the number of darts. In 2014, there was a build called the "Nuclear Wizard" where an Evocation Wizard 17/Fighter 2/Hexblade 1 multiclass could use both Empowered Evocation and Hexblade's Curse on every dart, causing each dart to deal 1d4+12 force damage. At high levels, this build could Action Surge and use 8th & 9th level spell slots for the castings, sending out 21 darts in a turn for a total damage of 21d4+252 (304.5 average). And if the Wizard had the foresight to cast Simulacrum before the fight....very few monsters could survive even a single round from this build if they had the spell slots to burn (the Tarrasque being a notable exception with it's Reflective Carapace feature).
Given the wording that was mentioned in Post #3, it would make sense under the 2024 rules to roll damage individually for each dart.
However, keep in mind that this spell description explicitly says that all of the darts strike simultaneously. So, even though people don't often play this way, the best way to run it is to have the spellcaster declare which darts are hitting which targets ahead of time before any damage is known / resolved.
Is this not how people play by default?
I would be honestly surprised if it were not. Folks don't do the "A takes *clatter* damage...B takes *clatter* damage"...
Or "I attack A and B ...A *clatter* is a miss...B *clatter* a hit for *clatter* damage."
Sorry off topic, I was just curious.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'm not quite sure how to read your examples. But my point was just that the player / character should not be able to use knowledge of how the damage for the first dart resolved before targeting the 2nd dart, and so on. For example, an enemy might only have 1HP remaining but that's of course unknown to the player. If the player really wants to make sure that that enemy is reduced to 0 then he might decide to go ahead and target that enemy with all 3 darts, and of course the 2nd and 3rd darts in that case would do nothing. You don't get to see that the first dart was enough to bring the enemy down and then use that information to decide to target a different enemy with the second dart. Compare against the wording for Scorching Ray where it is more reasonable to run it such that the attack and damage is resolved one at a time.