Magic Missile... one damage roll or multiple rolls in 2024?

Quote from sabin76 >>

The only time I've seen that in play was in a situation where the DM called for a spellcasting roll to see if they could "bend" the spell to hit a different creature and not waste the shots that were called beforehand. This is obviously not RAW, but it's the closest I've seen to "roll damage for one and see how it shakes out before rolling the next". Have you actually seen people play that way?

Technically, since the spell says the darts all land simultaneously, there is no way to do the damage incrementally/sequentially

The idea was you declared what level spell slot you were using to cast magic missile, rolled a single d4, and then decided how to split the darts up.

(You declare the slot before you roll to prevent someone from rolling a 4 and deciding to upcast, or they roll a 1 and choose a level 1 slot to minimize the waste.)

Once you declare the slot level.and roll the damage, you can split up the darts as you wish.

This is not eldritch blast which got a different damage roll per dart. At least not in 2014 it didnt. I havent looked into the depths and bowels of ambiguity that is 2024 rules for this. 

But i imagine for the evoker wizard to be useful at all, magic missile would remain a single damage roll applied to all darts. I dont see rules that say you roll different die per dart.certainly not rolling different handfuls of 8d6 for each target hit by fireball.

Oh and if a dm wants to allow a d4 per dart to avoid the player rolling a 1 and doing abysmal damage, thats nice of them, but unless 2024 rules prohibit it, id still want my wvoker to roll once and apply to all beams, which is how it used to work 

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

But i imagine for the evoker wizard to be useful at all, magic missile would remain a single damage roll applied to all darts. I dont see rules that say you roll different die per dart.certainly not rolling different handfuls of 8d6 for each target hit by fireball.

Evoker wizards are not expected to be dependent on magic missile. 

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

But i imagine for the evoker wizard to be useful at all, magic missile would remain a single damage roll applied to all darts. I dont see rules that say you roll different die per dart.certainly not rolling different handfuls of 8d6 for each target hit by fireball.

Evoker wizards are not expected to be dependent on magic missile. 

I didnt say anything about being dependent. I did, however point to rules from 2014 that say roll once.

Jeremy Crawford said the same

https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/774030989894955008

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

I didnt say anything about being dependent. I did, however point to rules from 2014 that say roll once.

Jeremy Crawford said the same

Jeremy Crawford has a long history of defending stupid mistakes (such as see invisibility not actually helping you attack invisible targets) as deliberate. 2024 just removed something that was never intended to be there.

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/combat#DamageRolls

"If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them."

Magic missile spell description says they all land at the same time (simultaneously) therefore, one damage roll

The equivalent section in 2024 rules doesnt say either way whether you must roll once or roll for each effect that deals damage "at the same time". 

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/playing-the-game#DamageRolls

Which, i suppose could be interpreted as saying you COULD ask to roll fireball damage separately for each target in the aoe.

In 2014 you roll once for magic missile damage and that same result gets applied to every dart.  In 2024 you roll separately for each dart.  

You roll once for fireball damage.  That's explicitly covered under the rules for Saving Throws.  All of this was explained much earlier in the thread, all the way back in Post #3.

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

The idea was you declared what level spell slot you were using to cast magic missile, rolled a single d4, and then decided how to split the darts up.

. . .

Once you declare the slot level.and roll the damage, you can split up the darts as you wish.

It's more correct for the spellcaster to declare which darts hit which targets first.  THEN you roll the d4 to determine damage.

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

I dont see rules that say you roll different die per dart.

It's the other way around.  You start out with damage being resolved individually.  Then, you look to see if there is a rule which groups them together instead.  That rule from 2014 has been removed and replaced with a similar rule that only applies when the effect causes a saving throw (such as with the Fireball spell).

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

id still want my wvoker to roll once and apply to all beams, which is how it used to work 

It doesn't work that way anymore.  The general rule has been changed.  See above.

I pointed to the rules text that supports my interpretation, i pointed to a major game designer who supported my interpretation.

I pointed to the rule that says roll damage once for.damage that lands at the same time, and the spell description that says magic missile darts all strike simultaneously.   

If you can point to rules text that clarifies that these two bits of text are unrelated, please provide a citation. If you just want to declare by fiat, without referencing any rules to support it, that my interpretation is STUPID, I feel that now might be the time to point out that thats not as compelling an argument as you might think it is

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

I pointed to the rules text that supports my interpretation, i pointed to a major game designer who supported my interpretation.

I pointed to the rule that says roll damage once for.damage that lands at the same time, and the spell description that says magic missile darts all strike simultaneously.   

If you can point to rules text that clarifies that these two bits of text are unrelated, please provide a citation. If you just want to declare by fiat, without referencing any rules to support it, that my interpretation is STUPID, I feel that now might be the time to point out that thats not as compelling an argument as you might think it is

 As was said:

Quote from Frachese >>

The spell is the same, but the PHB section on damage and healing is different. The 2014 PHB says "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." while the 2024 one states "When you create a damaging effect that forces two or more targets to make saving throws against it at the same time, roll the damage once for all the targets." Because Magic Missile does not involve any saving throw, some argue that you have to roll separately for each dart in 2024.

 There's no rule saying you roll once. So each separate instance is a separate roll, because that's the norm. 

Additionally, this:

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

 But i imagine for the evoker wizard to be useful at all, magic missile would remain a single damage roll applied to all darts.

 is not a very good argument, because evokers were not exactly renowned for their massive magic missile damage at level 10+. By level 10, they're rarely going to be throwing magic missile at all, even under the 2014 rules. Their signature ability has always been Sculpt Spells, and it remains extremely good even if they only get a damage bonus on a single MM.

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

I pointed to the rules text that supports my interpretation, i pointed to a major game designer who supported my interpretation.

Yes, there's a reasonable argument that 2014 RAW worked that way. 2024 changed the rules, in a way that seems to indicate "we never intended magic missile to work that way", since as far as I can tell magic missile is the only spell whose behavior is changed.