So the spell Heat Metal says that it targets a manufactured metal object, such as a weapon or a medium to large size suit of armor. My player debated that even a small pendant being warn by the target should be allowed to take the full damage from this effect because its a manufactured metal object.
My official ruling was that unless its a weapon or suit of armor, it wouldn't have the same effect and therefore it would achieve the proper effect.
I was just curious how some of you would rule this spell.
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- Codis
-- Rylei Dreemurr in Firedeath MUST DIE
"Magic is very simple. All you need to do is want something and then let yourself have it!" - Grandma Aggie Halloweentown
"How do you want to do this?" - Matthew Mercer, Critical Role
Metal is metal I say. So full damage would make sense. However the pendant might be made of a metal such as gold or silver that would melt causing the dmg to not occur each turn. Also a pendant is easier to remove than armor and wouldnt offer the same negative as tossing away a weapon. So by allowing this the player makes the decision to not use the spell to its max effect in order to deal some quick damage.
A pendant that is manufactured metal is a valid target. Typically it would target armor (as it takes exceedingly long to remove in combat) or a weapon (to potentially disarm the target). The target could use their interaction on a turn to throw away the necklace (assuming they have a free hand to do so). I would also say it would do damage even if there was clothing or such between it, same reason the armor does damage even though no metal should be touching the wearer's skin.
By the way, this spell is absolutely fantastic against medium or heavy armour wearer. 2d8 without any save and disadvantage on attack rolls....the "knight" 's nightmare
By the way, this spell is absolutely fantastic against medium or heavy armour wearer. 2d8 without any save and disadvantage on attack rolls....the "knight" 's nightmare
Indeed! Remember the good old days of Heat Metal + Transmute Metal to Wood? Such a nasty combination.
Should be full damage, as the spell it is magical affect doing the damage, and the size of the item is therefore not important. What is questionable is whether or not the necklace can be dropped. I would say no, as it is physically attached. It can be removed on the NPCs turn as probably a bonus action. But I would say the NPC takes the penalties as stated in the spells description.
The most clever use I've seen of this spell was against a Chain Devil. Totally allowed, but then I said because the Chain Devil is in total control of their chains, they can keep command of the chains even if they "drop" them. What's worse, that player kept the spell going, and the Chain Devil then grappled him with those chains!
I think a small pendant will still work, but remember that there are other consequences to choosing something so easily manipulated ;-)
The most clever use I've seen of this spell was against a Chain Devil. Totally allowed, but then I said because the Chain Devil is in total control of their chains, they can keep command of the chains even if they "drop" them. What's worse, that player kept the spell going, and the Chain Devil then grappled him with those chains!
I think a small pendant will still work, but remember that there are other consequences to choosing something so easily manipulated ;-)
agreed. It is all in the creativity of DM and players.
I would not put limitations on the spell that are not written into the spell itself.
Which is to say any manufactured metal object would be a valid target, because if the spell was intended to only work on weapons or armor it would say something like "Choose a metal weapon or a suit of heavy or medium metal armor" instead of "Choose a manufactured metal object."
I agree with the others. It shouldn't be restricted, but a amulet is pretty easy easy to discard... Unless it's the Cleric's only holy symbol.
I was in a game, my halfing monk grappled onto the back of a dragon, and drove a piton into it's hide.
My "plan" was to keep the dragon from throwing me off, by tying myself to the dragon so it couldn't fly away.
Bard then used Heat Metal on it...
It destroyed my rope, but the dragon was very unhappy..
Almost killed the bars.
Our GM hated the spell and thought it was broken lacking a save. He instituted the "Sniper Rule" on it. (ie: I think this is broken, I won't stop you from using it, but if you agree not to use it, I'll agree not to have NPCs use it)
I agree with the others. It shouldn't be restricted, but a amulet is pretty easy easy to discard... Unless it's the Cleric's only holy symbol.
I was in a game, my halfing monk grappled onto the back of a dragon, and drove a piton into it's hide.
My "plan" was to keep the dragon from throwing me off, by tying myself to the dragon so it couldn't fly away.
Bard then used Heat Metal on it...
It destroyed my rope, but the dragon was very unhappy..
Almost killed the bars.
Our GM hated the spell and thought it was broken lacking a save. He instituted the "Sniper Rule" on it. (ie: I think this is broken, I won't stop you from using it, but if you agree not to use it, I'll agree not to have NPCs use it)
I mean I don't want to institute that rule either, but it is really broken. With no save or no way to end it without a dispel magic or removing the item to which removing the armor takes minutes to remove. So that's 10 rounds a minute. Take armor off of 5 minutes. That's 50 rounds of removing armor.
I don't want to change spells or anything, but like, it's kinda powerful.
Maybe I could add a save to it? But I wouldn't even know what I would add to that. Cause it's targeting the item, not the person. So none of the normal saves would work.
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- Codis
-- Rylei Dreemurr in Firedeath MUST DIE
"Magic is very simple. All you need to do is want something and then let yourself have it!" - Grandma Aggie Halloweentown
"How do you want to do this?" - Matthew Mercer, Critical Role
I agree with the others. It shouldn't be restricted, but a amulet is pretty easy easy to discard... Unless it's the Cleric's only holy symbol.
I was in a game, my halfing monk grappled onto the back of a dragon, and drove a piton into it's hide.
My "plan" was to keep the dragon from throwing me off, by tying myself to the dragon so it couldn't fly away.
Bard then used Heat Metal on it...
It destroyed my rope, but the dragon was very unhappy..
Almost killed the bars.
Our GM hated the spell and thought it was broken lacking a save. He instituted the "Sniper Rule" on it. (ie: I think this is broken, I won't stop you from using it, but if you agree not to use it, I'll agree not to have NPCs use it)
I mean I don't want to institute that rule either, but it is really broken. With no save or no way to end it without a dispel magic or removing the item to which removing the armor takes minutes to remove. So that's 10 rounds a minute. Take armor off of 5 minutes. That's 50 rounds of removing armor.
I don't want to change spells or anything, but like, it's kinda powerful.
Maybe I could add a save to it? But I wouldn't even know what I would add to that. Cause it's targeting the item, not the person. So none of the normal saves would work.
You can dispel it with Dispel magic or make the spellcaster lose concentration.
I agree that it is quite powerful but it is also quite situational. You don't always meet NPCs with metal armours.
I agree with the others. It shouldn't be restricted, but a amulet is pretty easy easy to discard... Unless it's the Cleric's only holy symbol.
I was in a game, my halfing monk grappled onto the back of a dragon, and drove a piton into it's hide.
My "plan" was to keep the dragon from throwing me off, by tying myself to the dragon so it couldn't fly away.
Bard then used Heat Metal on it...
It destroyed my rope, but the dragon was very unhappy..
Almost killed the bars.
Our GM hated the spell and thought it was broken lacking a save. He instituted the "Sniper Rule" on it. (ie: I think this is broken, I won't stop you from using it, but if you agree not to use it, I'll agree not to have NPCs use it)
I mean I don't want to institute that rule either, but it is really broken. With no save or no way to end it without a dispel magic or removing the item to which removing the armor takes minutes to remove. So that's 10 rounds a minute. Take armor off of 5 minutes. That's 50 rounds of removing armor.
I don't want to change spells or anything, but like, it's kinda powerful.
Maybe I could add a save to it? But I wouldn't even know what I would add to that. Cause it's targeting the item, not the person. So none of the normal saves would work.
You can dispel it with Dispel magic or make the spellcaster lose concentration.
Hmmm. Concentration would be a better way to go. I forgot about that, slightly. And yeah I figured dispel magic would work.
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- Codis
-- Rylei Dreemurr in Firedeath MUST DIE
"Magic is very simple. All you need to do is want something and then let yourself have it!" - Grandma Aggie Halloweentown
"How do you want to do this?" - Matthew Mercer, Critical Role
So that's 10 rounds a minute. Take armor off of 5 minutes. That's 50 rounds of removing armor.
I don't want to change spells or anything, but like, it's kinda powerful.
Maybe I could add a save to it? But I wouldn't even know what I would add to that. Cause it's targeting the item, not the person. So none of the normal saves would work.
I personally think the spell wouldn't be broken if the Con Save negated the DisAdv on attack and ability checks, but I'm not the Devs.
As it stands to defend against it, a Solo Monster is pretty much up the via cloaca without a paddle.
Filecat pointed out a Dispel Magic will stop it (and Heat Metal doesn't stop spell casting new spells, but will screw up concentration checks (as it's damage).
A Counter-Spell is stop it before it's cast if you have a Reaction.
Also remember it's a Concentration Spell... So "geek the mage" and the spell is over. If you can concentrate fire on the caster, she'll probably fail her check sooner then later... and it's spell limit is 1 minute, so 10 turns max per casting. In my story there is a reason the Dragon almost killed our Bard.
The spell will draw an uncomfortable amount of Aggro from targets. I still think the "Sniper Rule" is a reasonable way to handle it, the PCs can ask themselves if they *really* want it cast against them..
The concentration rules are what make this unbroken. If you forget about concentration checks whenever a spellcaster takes damage that doesn't make the spell itself broken.
Also note that the spell requires material components. So if the pc doesn't have a flame they can't cast the spell.
Also note that the spell requires material components. So if the pc doesn't have a flame they can't cast the spell.
Don't forget that a spell component pouch or an appropriate focus (like a staff) can fulfill the material component requirement.
That is why I left off the piece of metal. But if the player hasn't been taking penalties for having a torch or some source of flame out or its the middle of the day, that is something that you could claim the player would have to specifically do.
...the rule that lets the piece of metal be replaced also lets the flame be replaced. Only material components with specific costs listed are required to actually be present, by the book.
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Hey all.
So the spell Heat Metal says that it targets a manufactured metal object, such as a weapon or a medium to large size suit of armor. My player debated that even a small pendant being warn by the target should be allowed to take the full damage from this effect because its a manufactured metal object.
My official ruling was that unless its a weapon or suit of armor, it wouldn't have the same effect and therefore it would achieve the proper effect.
I was just curious how some of you would rule this spell.
- Codis
-- Rylei Dreemurr in Firedeath MUST DIE
"Magic is very simple. All you need to do is want something and then let yourself have it!" - Grandma Aggie Halloweentown
"How do you want to do this?" - Matthew Mercer, Critical Role
I would allow it. The pendant, after all, respects the limitations stated in the spell description.
Metal is metal I say. So full damage would make sense. However the pendant might be made of a metal such as gold or silver that would melt causing the dmg to not occur each turn. Also a pendant is easier to remove than armor and wouldnt offer the same negative as tossing away a weapon. So by allowing this the player makes the decision to not use the spell to its max effect in order to deal some quick damage.
thats how i would rule the situation
A pendant that is manufactured metal is a valid target. Typically it would target armor (as it takes exceedingly long to remove in combat) or a weapon (to potentially disarm the target). The target could use their interaction on a turn to throw away the necklace (assuming they have a free hand to do so). I would also say it would do damage even if there was clothing or such between it, same reason the armor does damage even though no metal should be touching the wearer's skin.
By the way, this spell is absolutely fantastic against medium or heavy armour wearer. 2d8 without any save and disadvantage on attack rolls....the "knight" 's nightmare
Should be full damage, as the spell it is magical affect doing the damage, and the size of the item is therefore not important. What is questionable is whether or not the necklace can be dropped. I would say no, as it is physically attached. It can be removed on the NPCs turn as probably a bonus action. But I would say the NPC takes the penalties as stated in the spells description.
The most clever use I've seen of this spell was against a Chain Devil. Totally allowed, but then I said because the Chain Devil is in total control of their chains, they can keep command of the chains even if they "drop" them. What's worse, that player kept the spell going, and the Chain Devil then grappled him with those chains!
I think a small pendant will still work, but remember that there are other consequences to choosing something so easily manipulated ;-)
I would not put limitations on the spell that are not written into the spell itself.
Which is to say any manufactured metal object would be a valid target, because if the spell was intended to only work on weapons or armor it would say something like "Choose a metal weapon or a suit of heavy or medium metal armor" instead of "Choose a manufactured metal object."
I agree with the others. It shouldn't be restricted, but a amulet is pretty easy easy to discard... Unless it's the Cleric's only holy symbol.
I was in a game, my halfing monk grappled onto the back of a dragon, and drove a piton into it's hide.
My "plan" was to keep the dragon from throwing me off, by tying myself to the dragon so it couldn't fly away.
Bard then used Heat Metal on it...
It destroyed my rope, but the dragon was very unhappy..
Almost killed the bars.
Our GM hated the spell and thought it was broken lacking a save. He instituted the "Sniper Rule" on it. (ie: I think this is broken, I won't stop you from using it, but if you agree not to use it, I'll agree not to have NPCs use it)
- Codis
-- Rylei Dreemurr in Firedeath MUST DIE
"Magic is very simple. All you need to do is want something and then let yourself have it!" - Grandma Aggie Halloweentown
"How do you want to do this?" - Matthew Mercer, Critical Role
- Codis
-- Rylei Dreemurr in Firedeath MUST DIE
"Magic is very simple. All you need to do is want something and then let yourself have it!" - Grandma Aggie Halloweentown
"How do you want to do this?" - Matthew Mercer, Critical Role
Moreover the spellcaster, after the first turn of damage, has to sacrifice the bonus action.
The concentration rules are what make this unbroken. If you forget about concentration checks whenever a spellcaster takes damage that doesn't make the spell itself broken.
Also note that the spell requires material components. So if the pc doesn't have a flame they can't cast the spell.