How does the Hide action interact with attacking?

The action gives the invisible condition, and the invisible condition gives advantage on attack rolls. However, the invisible condition from hide also ends once an attack roll of made, so if you attack someone after taking the hide action, does it have advantage or not? Need to know so I can bully my players with Shadows and Shadow Dragons next session :)

Quote from ZardiacTheW1zard >>

...so if you attack someone after taking the hide action, does it have advantage or not?

Yes, just the once, hit or miss. (Though there are some class features and feats that mess with that a bit.)

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

Quote from ZardiacTheW1zard >>

The action gives the invisible condition, and the invisible condition gives advantage on attack rolls. However, the invisible condition from hide also ends once an attack roll of made, so if you attack someone after taking the hide action, does it have advantage or not? Need to know so I can bully my players with Shadows and Shadow Dragons next session :)

The invisible condition from hide ends immediately after making an attack roll, and thus the attack roll benefits from being invisible (unless invisibility is ended by something else, of course).

Quote from ZardiacTheW1zard >>

The action gives the invisible condition, and the invisible condition gives advantage on attack rolls. 

Perhaps even more importantly, the Hide action causes you to become hidden (concealed).  

The resulting interaction asked about in this OP is covered elsewhere in the general rules in a sidebar called Unseen Attackers and Targets:

"

When a creature can’t see you, you have Advantage on attack rolls against it.

If you are hidden when you make an attack roll, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.

"

Quote from esampson >>

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from esampson >>

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

 

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

 RAW, this is correct. However, the Invisible does not specify a duration. Most DM's would rule that you can not take the Hide action in the brush at the edge of a field, then move into the open and spend the next 3 turns standing in that open field in broad daylight and remain unseen by the enemies all around you. While this is strictly within the rules, it makes no sense from a narrative or logical perspective. Ultimately, it is up to the DM do decide when the conditions of any given situation make it difficult (possibly requiring a Stealth check) or downright impossible for you to remain Invisible to the enemies. 

Quote from Sequilonis >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from esampson >>

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

 

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

 RAW, this is correct. However, the Invisible does not specify a duration. Most DM's would rule that you can not take the Hide action in the brush at the edge of a field, then move into the open and spend the next 3 turns standing in that open field in broad daylight and remain unseen by the enemies all around you. While this is strictly within the rules, it makes no sense from a narrative or logical perspective. Ultimately, it is up to the DM do decide when the conditions of any given situation make it difficult (possibly requiring a Stealth check) or downright impossible for you to remain Invisible to the enemies. 

The DM can not follow the rules whenever they choose.  But this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum.  The rules are the law.

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from Sequilonis >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from esampson >>

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

 

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

 RAW, this is correct. However, the Invisible does not specify a duration. Most DM's would rule that you can not take the Hide action in the brush at the edge of a field, then move into the open and spend the next 3 turns standing in that open field in broad daylight and remain unseen by the enemies all around you. While this is strictly within the rules, it makes no sense from a narrative or logical perspective. Ultimately, it is up to the DM do decide when the conditions of any given situation make it difficult (possibly requiring a Stealth check) or downright impossible for you to remain Invisible to the enemies. 

The DM can not follow the rules whenever they choose.  But this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum.  The rules are the law.

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

This is from the Sage Advice Compendium, which are considered official rulings:

Adventuring

If I’m hidden and a creature with Blindsight or Truesight sees me, am I still hidden?

No. Being hidden is a game state that gives you the Invisible condition. If a creature finds you, you’re no longer hidden and lose that condition, as explained in the Hide action (see appendix C of the Player’s Handbook).

If you are seen, you are no longer hidden and lose the Invisible condition. Standing in plain sight with enemies around would would obviously qualify as being seen in the same way that Blindsight or Truesight would.

Quote from Squirrelloid>>

The DM can not follow the rules whenever they choose.  But this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum.  The rules are the law.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from Sequilonis >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from esampson >>

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

 

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

 RAW, this is correct. However, the Invisible does not specify a duration. Most DM's would rule that you can not take the Hide action in the brush at the edge of a field, then move into the open and spend the next 3 turns standing in that open field in broad daylight and remain unseen by the enemies all around you. While this is strictly within the rules, it makes no sense from a narrative or logical perspective. Ultimately, it is up to the DM do decide when the conditions of any given situation make it difficult (possibly requiring a Stealth check) or downright impossible for you to remain Invisible to the enemies. 

The DM can not follow the rules whenever they choose.  But this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum.  The rules are the law.

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

And, RAW, there are times when no roll is required, at the DMs discretion. You stand out in the middle of the open, the DM says 'yes, you used the Stealth action, but that is a skill and not a magical spell, so they automatically succeed in their Perception roll'.

That, absolutely, is RAW. Please stop acting like people who disagree with you are not following the rules. You don't like the DM making that choice, fine. Don't play with that DM. However, do not act like them making that decision is somehow ignoring the rules.

Please note, I'm not saying that your interpretation does not follow the rules. You, as the DM, can decide that no, they do still require a Perception check since it is at your discretion. 

Because of DM discretion two conflicting results can occur without either result requiring someone to ignore a rule.

At any rate, there are other threads that are dedicated to this subject, rather than continuing it as a tangent.

And this is what I meant when I said that there are arguments to be made and people who will just as vehemently argue against the point, ZardiacTheW1zard. At the end of the day you will have to decide exactly what your discretion on the matter is. Just keep in mind that you are working with your players and not against them and whatever decision you make they should be comfortable with (maybe they want a more fantastic campaign where Stealth can be used that way, maybe they don't) and the ruling should be consistent (if the rule affects the NPCs one way it really should affect the players in the same way).

Yes, anyone who's actually interested in the hide argument (which isn't relevant to this thread, there's nothing unclear or disputed about the particular question the OP was asking) can find multiple threads.

Quote from Sequilonis >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from Sequilonis >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from esampson >>

It's the same as how Invisibility stops as soon as you attack. Although the Condition ended the attacker still has Advantage.

One thing to be aware of, however, There  are arguments to be made that on occasion the Invisibility condition for Hide may be broken before the attack is made (e.g., if the person Hiding is forced to approach their target from the front without adequate cover for a long enough distance), but these arguments are not without people who will vehemently disagree. It comes down to exactly how you interpret certain phrases (primarily the phrase 'an enemy finds you') and how potent you want Stealth to be.

 

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

 RAW, this is correct. However, the Invisible does not specify a duration. Most DM's would rule that you can not take the Hide action in the brush at the edge of a field, then move into the open and spend the next 3 turns standing in that open field in broad daylight and remain unseen by the enemies all around you. While this is strictly within the rules, it makes no sense from a narrative or logical perspective. Ultimately, it is up to the DM do decide when the conditions of any given situation make it difficult (possibly requiring a Stealth check) or downright impossible for you to remain Invisible to the enemies. 

The DM can not follow the rules whenever they choose.  But this is the Rules & Game Mechanics forum.  The rules are the law.

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

This is from the Sage Advice Compendium, which are considered official rulings:

Adventuring

If I’m hidden and a creature with Blindsight or Truesight sees me, am I still hidden?

No. Being hidden is a game state that gives you the Invisible condition. If a creature finds you, you’re no longer hidden and lose that condition, as explained in the Hide action (see appendix C of the Player’s Handbook).

 

If you are seen, you are no longer hidden and lose the Invisible condition. Standing in plain sight with enemies around would would obviously qualify as being seen in the same way that Blindsight or Truesight would.

 Not at all the same.  Blindsight and Truesight ignore Invisible, and thus ignore Hidden (unless you are behind total cover or heavily obscured from those sight types).  They can see you because they can draw line of sight to you.  Normal sight does not (and can never 'see you' without the defined perception check method, because it can never draw line of sight to you).   Your interpretation here is just obviously wrong.

But I will otherwise drop this in this thread.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

This is true only while your location is concealed.  If it isn't then there are more trivial ways to find you.  This was addressed by the errata that was given shortly after release by adding the clarifying text that you only have the Invisible condition "while hidden".

Quote from Sequilonis >>

the Invisible does not specify a duration. 

You only have the condition "while hidden" (while concealed).  Once you expose your position, you are no longer concealed (hidden).

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

This is only true while your position is concealed.  ("while hidden")

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

 

This is from the Sage Advice Compendium, which are considered official rulings:

Adventuring

If I’m hidden and a creature with Blindsight or Truesight sees me, am I still hidden?

No. Being hidden is a game state that gives you the Invisible condition. If a creature finds you, you’re no longer hidden and lose that condition, as explained in the Hide action (see appendix C of the Player’s Handbook).

 

If you are seen, you are no longer hidden and lose the Invisible condition. Standing in plain sight with enemies around would would obviously qualify as being seen in the same way that Blindsight or Truesight would.

 Not at all the same.  Blindsight and Truesight ignore Invisible, and thus ignore Hidden (unless you are behind total cover or heavily obscured from those sight types).  They can see you because they can draw line of sight to you.  Normal sight does not (and can never 'see you' without the defined perception check method, because it can never draw line of sight to you).   Your interpretation here is just obviously wrong.

But I will otherwise drop this in this thread.

Although the question asked mentioned Blindsight and Truesight, the answer that was given did not reference either of these.  The answer was a general answer about what it means to be hidden and no longer hidden.  I haven't checked the exact dates involved but it's also possible that this question and answer was given prior to the errata which clarified when you have the condition and when you are no longer hidden.

__________

Also, just as a general comment related to this topic: 

It's important to remember that a DM, by RAW, can always declare that a particular attack has advantage if he deems that the situation warrants it.  

Sometimes a D20 Test is modified by Advantage or Disadvantage. Advantage reflects the positive circumstances surrounding a d20 roll, while Disadvantage reflects negative circumstances.

You usually acquire Advantage or Disadvantage through the use of special abilities and actions. The DM can also decide that circumstances grant Advantage or impose Disadvantage.

So, for example, if a player says that their character is attempting to cross an open field in order to attack an enemy from behind that is distracted and looking the other way, the DM might grant advantage on that attack just based on the situation and the described approach to that situation.  If the DM grants advantage on that attack, it doesn't have to be because he considers that character to be "hidden" when making the attack -- in fact, by rule, such a character is very much NOT hidden when making this attack.  Instead, a DM can just grant advantage to this attack anyway.  Not as a house rule.  As an actual written rule (see above).

Sigh.

Quote from up2ng >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

It's impossible to draw line of sight to a Hidden creature, because they're Invisible.  So the only way to 'find them' is pass the perception check. 

 

This is true only while your location is concealed. 

Having the Invisible condition makes you Concealed, by definition.  It's literally one of the things the Invisible condition explicitly does.

Being Hidden is a consequence of having taken the Hide Action, and that's what gives you the Invisible condition, which makes you Concealed.

Quote from up2ng >> 

If it isn't then there are more trivial ways to find you.

 Huh.  This sentence is meaningless.  Are you suggesting that 'your location' being 'concealed' is somehow different from you being Hidden?  I literally don't know what you're trying to say.

Quote from up2ng >>

This was addressed by the errata that was given shortly after release by adding the clarifying text that you only have the Invisible condition "while hidden".

 All the errata did was add a category, Hidden, which is what gives you the Invisible condition.  It didn't actually change the functional meaning of the text in any way, although it did make the semantics of the language cleaner.

Quote from up2ng >>

 

You only have the condition "while hidden" (while concealed).  Once you expose your position, you are no longer concealed (hidden).

 This is just confused.  Hidden and Concealed are two different things.

Concealed is the sub-ability of the Invisible condition that stops anyone from drawing line of sight to you (without some method of sight that ignores invisibility).

You have the Invisible Condition while Hidden.  (I'm going to capitalize it like they should have, as its functionally a key word).  You become Hidden by taking the Hide Action.  Hidden only ends when one of the following events occur: "you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."

I am not sure what you mean by 'once you expose your position'.  If you mean that list above, great, we agree.  If you mean something not explicitly in that list, you're simply wrong as a matter of the rules.

Quote from up2ng >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

 

This is only true while your position is concealed.  ("while hidden")

 You say this like it's some gotcha, but huh?  I was giving the only conditions that end 'Hidden'.  What do you mean 'only true while your position is concealed'?  Your statement is either trivial (ie, encompasses only what I said, and is thus misleading, as you make it sound like a correction when there is no correction), or making incorrect implications, and I honestly can't tell which.  

Quote from up2ng >> 

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

 

This is from the Sage Advice Compendium, which are considered official rulings:

Adventuring

If I’m hidden and a creature with Blindsight or Truesight sees me, am I still hidden?

No. Being hidden is a game state that gives you the Invisible condition. If a creature finds you, you’re no longer hidden and lose that condition, as explained in the Hide action (see appendix C of the Player’s Handbook).

 

If you are seen, you are no longer hidden and lose the Invisible condition. Standing in plain sight with enemies around would would obviously qualify as being seen in the same way that Blindsight or Truesight would.

 Not at all the same.  Blindsight and Truesight ignore Invisible, and thus ignore Hidden (unless you are behind total cover or heavily obscured from those sight types).  They can see you because they can draw line of sight to you.  Normal sight does not (and can never 'see you' without the defined perception check method, because it can never draw line of sight to you).   Your interpretation here is just obviously wrong.

But I will otherwise drop this in this thread.

 

Although the question asked mentioned Blindsight and Truesight, the answer that was given did not reference either of these.  The answer was a general answer about what it means to be hidden and no longer hidden.  I haven't checked the exact dates involved but it's also possible that this question and answer was given prior to the errata which clarified when you have the condition and when you are no longer hidden.

 

This is explicitly about the interaction of Blindsight or Truesight with the Invisible condition, even if they don't reiterate those terms.  They don't need to.  It's obvious from the context of the question being asked (and the answer being in response to it).  How does Blindsight find them?  It ignores the Invisible condition, so you being Invisible doesn't do anything, and they can draw line of sight to you normally.  

However, regular vision cannot "see" an Invisible creature.  That's what Concealed does.  So regular vision cannot find a Hidden creature that way.  

It is completely irrelevant to this answer whether it pre-dates or post-dates the errata.  (Although they use the word "hidden", so it must post-date it).

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Having the Invisible condition makes you Concealed, by definition.  It's literally one of the things the Invisible condition explicitly does.

No, it doesn't.  The Invisible condition includes a feature that is labelled "concealed".  As always, the label of a feature has no mechanical meaning.

In the context of the Hide action, to conceal yourself means to conceal your location which is done by making the effort to become and remain unseen and unheard.  While this is the case, you have the Invisible condition.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Are you suggesting that 'your location' being 'concealed' is somehow different from you being Hidden?  I literally don't know what you're trying to say.

Being hidden means that you've successfully concealed your location, which means that you are unseen and unheard.  This requires effort and the success or failure of this effort is represented by an ability check.  This effort involves positioning yourself as described in the Hide action and also making an effort to be quieter than usual and not disturbing your surroundings and not casting shadows or providing some other obvious evidence of your location.  While your location is concealed you have the Invisible condition.  Even while you are concealed, certain things will cause you to "stop being hidden immediately".  But obviously when your location is not concealed then the "while hidden" prerequisite is not being met at that time.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

 All the errata did was add a category, Hidden, which is what gives you the Invisible condition.  It didn't actually change the functional meaning of the text in any way, although it did make the semantics of the language cleaner.

There is no such thing as a Hidden "category".  That makes no sense.

The errata changed the functional meaning of the text very substantially.  Prior to the change it was possible to interpret the wording such that certain things would cause you to lose the condition, but you were still concealed (potentially causing you to remain an unseen attacker, etc).  Or even worse, that a successful check had nothing to do with hiding -- that it instead made you literally invisible.  It also allowed for an interpretation where you would maintain an Invisible condition even after you've stopped hiding.  The errata corrected all three of these rather silly possibilities.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Hidden and Concealed are two different things.

Concealed is the sub-ability of the Invisible condition that stops anyone from drawing line of sight to you (without some method of sight that ignores invisibility).

Ok, this is just false.  This could be the main culprit that's leading you astray on this topic.

Being hidden and concealing your location are the same thing in this game as described by the text for the Hide action.  The concept is that you make an effort to become unseen and unheard well enough so that other creatures cannot determine your location with their senses.  The usefulness of doing this is explained in the text for Unseen Attackers and Targets.  The feature within the Invisible condition simply has a label which says "concealed" but which could have been anything.  A label for a feature has no mechanical significance.  You must read the actual text for the feature, which is:  "You aren’t affected by any effect that requires its target to be seen unless the effect’s creator can somehow see you. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying is also concealed."  This has nothing to do with concealing your location.  It has to do with limitations on effects that can affect you.  Not to go too far into the weeds on this but it's well known that this clause doesn't actually do anything and therefore, the Invisible condition doesn't actually make you unseen, as written.  It needs errata really really badly, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Hidden only ends when one of the following events occur: "you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."

This is false.

Those are the things that cause you to "stop being hidden immediately" even while you are currently hidden.  So, you are behind total cover.  You are moving with extra quiet footsteps.  By all accounts, your location is unknown since your enemy cannot see you or hear you so they do not know where you are -- you've successfully concealed your location well enough that you are hidden.  BUT, for some reason, you decide to shout out a warning to your ally from across the room in a booming voice.  Even though you would otherwise be hidden, this sound louder than a whisper causes you to stop being hidden immediately, by rule.  The enemies know where you are now because they heard you.

On the other hand, if you simply walk up to your enemy and look him in the eye and shake his hand, you are simply no longer hiding because your position is not concealed as defined by the Hide action -- he knows where you are.  You only have the Invisible condition while hidden.  So, in this situation, you do not have it.  

Quote from Squirrelloid >> 

Quote from up2ng >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

 

This is only true while your position is concealed.  ("while hidden")

 You say this like it's some gotcha, but huh?  I was giving the only conditions that end 'Hidden'.  What do you mean 'only true while your position is concealed'?  Your statement is either trivial (ie, encompasses only what I said, and is thus misleading, as you make it sound like a correction when there is no correction), or making incorrect implications, and I honestly can't tell which.   

It's unclear what the confusion is on that.  I think I've covered this already in this post, but I'll try to summarize here.  

You take the time and effort (an action) to "try to conceal yourself".  The way to do this is described by the text -- while you are in a position that is difficult or impossible to be seen, you make an effort (represented by an ability check) to cause yourself to become unseen and unheard and thus your location becomes unknown, thereby concealing yourself and becoming hidden.  If successful, then congratulations, you are currently hidden because your location is concealed.  Now . . . WHILE HIDDEN, (see the text for how to conceal yourself) you have the Invisible condition.  As you should since part of being hidden means that you cannot be seen.  This also means that if your location is currently NOT concealed then you don't have it.  The text describes what it takes to be concealed.  While you are concealed, you have it, while you are not concealed, you don't have it.  Meanwhile, while you are concealed, certain things will cause you to stop being hidden immediately.  While you are not concealed, none of those things on the list matter anyway because you are already not hidden.  

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

This is explicitly about the interaction of Blindsight or Truesight with the Invisible condition, even if they don't reiterate those terms.  They don't need to.  It's obvious from the context of the question being asked (and the answer being in response to it).  How does Blindsight find them?  It ignores the Invisible condition, so you being Invisible doesn't do anything, and they can draw line of sight to you normally.  

However, regular vision cannot "see" an Invisible creature.  That's what Concealed does.  So regular vision cannot find a Hidden creature that way.  

It is completely irrelevant to this answer whether it pre-dates or post-dates the errata.  (Although they use the word "hidden", so it must post-date it).

I disagree with all of this.

One of the main ways that a creature will be hidden during gameplay is while behind three-quarters cover so that they can actually make an attack from a hidden position.  If you don't take the Hide action, then an enemy with normal vision can see you as soon as you pop out to three quarters cover so you would then lose your advantage on your attack.  But if you successfully hide, even though there IS line of sight to you, an enemy with normal vision still cannot see you, presumably because you have the Invisible condition.  Thus, you now have advantage on your attack.  However, because there IS line of sight to you in that situation, an enemy with Blindsight or Truesight CAN see you when you pop out to three-quarters cover and so once again you lose the advantage on your attack.

The person began the question with "If I'm hidden and . . .".  We should assume that he is interpreting the hiding mechanics correctly and is asking about this exact situation where he actually is still hiding because he actually is remaining behind three-quarters cover as required.  It's reasonable in that case to ask if you would "still" be hidden because you have never stopped hiding -- you are still doing everything correctly.  But, unfortunately, by rule, when an enemy finds you, you "stop being hidden immediately" even though you are still trying to hide.  And that's the answer that was given and this is the whole reason why that other poster posted this Sage Advice in the first place -- to illustrate exactly this situation.

FWIW, the first errata release for the new core rulebooks came out on April 16, 2025. The updated SAC for 5.5e was released on April 30, 2025.

This is actually a lot less complicated that in seems. At least in practice. The confusion is due to the rules using words that we usually take to mean something else.

Here are the two key things to understand:
1. You are hidden because you took a successful Hide Action. That's it. 

2. A Perception Check can find you. You are not "Invisible" in the sense that you are transparent or impossible to see. You are Invisible as in "not [currently] visible [to someone]".

Complicated in writing:

Invisible is a Condition. As per the rules: "The definition of a condition says how it affects its recipient, and various rules define how to end a condition." The 2014 rules say that "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense." This is no longer the case in the 2024 rules. The condition is completely changed. In the 2024 rules, the condition "invisible" doesn't rely on the "impossible to see" qualifier. It just means you have the Condition called Invisible, which only does the three things described. "Concealed" is one of the effects from this condition, and it only deals with effects that "require its target to be seen". "hidden" (notice the lower-case h) is not defined as a separate Condition, it's the result of having taken a successful Hide action. 

• Hide Action. If successful, you are hidden until AFTER (verbal, sound, attack, or found)
• While hidden, you are Invisible. Invisible just means that others don't see you.
• Finding requires a Perception Check. 
• If a creature has Truesight or similar, it "sees" you. That means that the Invisible Condition doesn't make a difference to them.
• Seeing doesn't mean finding, because hidden is not the same thing as Invisible. I'm not aware of any rule that says Truesight is an automatic success on Perception Checks. 
  • This is the only part I'm not 100% sure about, but it's the only truly congruent interpretation. 

Edit: Added the underlined part.
For the OP: The "hidden" part stops after the attack roll (so you lose that source of Invisibility). If you have the advantage from being Invisible, it resolves.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Quote from Sequilonis >>

This is from the Sage Advice Compendium, which are considered official rulings:

Adventuring

If I’m hidden and a creature with Blindsight or Truesight sees me, am I still hidden?

No. Being hidden is a game state that gives you the Invisible condition. If a creature finds you, you’re no longer hidden and lose that condition, as explained in the Hide action (see appendix C of the Player’s Handbook).

 

If you are seen, you are no longer hidden and lose the Invisible condition. Standing in plain sight with enemies around would would obviously qualify as being seen in the same way that Blindsight or Truesight would.

 Not at all the same.  Blindsight and Truesight ignore Invisible, and thus ignore Hidden (unless you are behind total cover or heavily obscured from those sight types).  They can see you because they can draw line of sight to you.  Normal sight does not (and can never 'see you' without the defined perception check method, because it can never draw line of sight to you).   Your interpretation here is just obviously wrong.

 The question may have been about Blind and Truesight, but the answer is more generally applicable.

The question asks "if a creature sees me". (with the specific context of the special sense abilities)

The answer says "If a creature finds you, you're no longer hidden".

This means that, if a creature sees you, through whatever means, it has found you. No perception check required.

Quote from up2ng >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Having the Invisible condition makes you Concealed, by definition.  It's literally one of the things the Invisible condition explicitly does.

 

No, it doesn't.  The Invisible condition includes a feature that is labelled "concealed".  As always, the label of a feature has no mechanical meaning.

In the context of the Hide action, to conceal yourself means to conceal your location which is done by making the effort to become and remain unseen and unheard.  While this is the case, you have the Invisible condition.

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Are you suggesting that 'your location' being 'concealed' is somehow different from you being Hidden?  I literally don't know what you're trying to say.

 

Being hidden means that you've successfully concealed your location, which means that you are unseen and unheard.  This requires effort and the success or failure of this effort is represented by an ability check.  This effort involves positioning yourself as described in the Hide action and also making an effort to be quieter than usual and not disturbing your surroundings and not casting shadows or providing some other obvious evidence of your location.  While your location is concealed you have the Invisible condition.  Even while you are concealed, certain things will cause you to "stop being hidden immediately".  But obviously when your location is not concealed then the "while hidden" prerequisite is not being met at that time.

 

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

 All the errata did was add a category, Hidden, which is what gives you the Invisible condition.  It didn't actually change the functional meaning of the text in any way, although it did make the semantics of the language cleaner.

 

There is no such thing as a Hidden "category".  That makes no sense.

The errata changed the functional meaning of the text very substantially.  Prior to the change it was possible to interpret the wording such that certain things would cause you to lose the condition, but you were still concealed (potentially causing you to remain an unseen attacker, etc).  Or even worse, that a successful check had nothing to do with hiding -- that it instead made you literally invisible.  It also allowed for an interpretation where you would maintain an Invisible condition even after you've stopped hiding.  The errata corrected all three of these rather silly possibilities.

 

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Hidden and Concealed are two different things.

Concealed is the sub-ability of the Invisible condition that stops anyone from drawing line of sight to you (without some method of sight that ignores invisibility).

 

Ok, this is just false.  This could be the main culprit that's leading you astray on this topic.

Being hidden and concealing your location are the same thing in this game as described by the text for the Hide action.  The concept is that you make an effort to become unseen and unheard well enough so that other creatures cannot determine your location with their senses.  The usefulness of doing this is explained in the text for Unseen Attackers and Targets.  The feature within the Invisible condition simply has a label which says "concealed" but which could have been anything.  A label for a feature has no mechanical significance.  You must read the actual text for the feature, which is:  "You aren’t affected by any effect that requires its target to be seen unless the effect’s creator can somehow see you. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying is also concealed."  This has nothing to do with concealing your location.  It has to do with limitations on effects that can affect you.  Not to go too far into the weeds on this but it's well known that this clause doesn't actually do anything and therefore, the Invisible condition doesn't actually make you unseen, as written.  It needs errata really really badly, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

Hidden only ends when one of the following events occur: "you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."

 

This is false.

Those are the things that cause you to "stop being hidden immediately" even while you are currently hidden.  So, you are behind total cover.  You are moving with extra quiet footsteps.  By all accounts, your location is unknown since your enemy cannot see you or hear you so they do not know where you are -- you've successfully concealed your location well enough that you are hidden.  BUT, for some reason, you decide to shout out a warning to your ally from across the room in a booming voice.  Even though you would otherwise be hidden, this sound louder than a whisper causes you to stop being hidden immediately, by rule.  The enemies know where you are now because they heard you.

On the other hand, if you simply walk up to your enemy and look him in the eye and shake his hand, you are simply no longer hiding because your position is not concealed as defined by the Hide action -- he knows where you are.  You only have the Invisible condition while hidden.  So, in this situation, you do not have it.  

Quote from Squirrelloid >> 

Quote from up2ng >>

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

And it does specify a duration. "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."  How long are you Hidden?  Until one of those things happen.

 

This is only true while your position is concealed.  ("while hidden")

 You say this like it's some gotcha, but huh?  I was giving the only conditions that end 'Hidden'.  What do you mean 'only true while your position is concealed'?  Your statement is either trivial (ie, encompasses only what I said, and is thus misleading, as you make it sound like a correction when there is no correction), or making incorrect implications, and I honestly can't tell which.   

 

It's unclear what the confusion is on that.  I think I've covered this already in this post, but I'll try to summarize here.  

You take the time and effort (an action) to "try to conceal yourself".  The way to do this is described by the text -- while you are in a position that is difficult or impossible to be seen, you make an effort (represented by an ability check) to cause yourself to become unseen and unheard and thus your location becomes unknown, thereby concealing yourself and becoming hidden.  If successful, then congratulations, you are currently hidden because your location is concealed.  Now . . . WHILE HIDDEN, (see the text for how to conceal yourself) you have the Invisible condition.  As you should since part of being hidden means that you cannot be seen.  This also means that if your location is currently NOT concealed then you don't have it.  The text describes what it takes to be concealed.  While you are concealed, you have it, while you are not concealed, you don't have it.  Meanwhile, while you are concealed, certain things will cause you to stop being hidden immediately.  While you are not concealed, none of those things on the list matter anyway because you are already not hidden.  

Quote from Squirrelloid >>

This is explicitly about the interaction of Blindsight or Truesight with the Invisible condition, even if they don't reiterate those terms.  They don't need to.  It's obvious from the context of the question being asked (and the answer being in response to it).  How does Blindsight find them?  It ignores the Invisible condition, so you being Invisible doesn't do anything, and they can draw line of sight to you normally.  

However, regular vision cannot "see" an Invisible creature.  That's what Concealed does.  So regular vision cannot find a Hidden creature that way.  

It is completely irrelevant to this answer whether it pre-dates or post-dates the errata.  (Although they use the word "hidden", so it must post-date it).

 

I disagree with all of this.

One of the main ways that a creature will be hidden during gameplay is while behind three-quarters cover so that they can actually make an attack from a hidden position.  If you don't take the Hide action, then an enemy with normal vision can see you as soon as you pop out to three quarters cover so you would then lose your advantage on your attack.  But if you successfully hide, even though there IS line of sight to you, an enemy with normal vision still cannot see you, presumably because you have the Invisible condition.  Thus, you now have advantage on your attack.  However, because there IS line of sight to you in that situation, an enemy with Blindsight or Truesight CAN see you when you pop out to three-quarters cover and so once again you lose the advantage on your attack.

The person began the question with "If I'm hidden and . . .".  We should assume that he is interpreting the hiding mechanics correctly and is asking about this exact situation where he actually is still hiding because he actually is remaining behind three-quarters cover as required.  It's reasonable in that case to ask if you would "still" be hidden because you have never stopped hiding -- you are still doing everything correctly.  But, unfortunately, by rule, when an enemy finds you, you "stop being hidden immediately" even though you are still trying to hide.  And that's the answer that was given and this is the whole reason why that other poster posted this Sage Advice in the first place -- to illustrate exactly this situation.

This is almost entirely wrong.  

Hide Action:

"With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you're Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any enemy's line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you.

On a successful check, you have the Invisible condition while hidden. Make note of your check's total, which is the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check.

You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component."

The first paragraph gives the conditions for taking the Hide Action - you must be Heavily Obscured, or behind Three Quarters or Total Cover.  That makes you Hidden.

The second paragraph gives you the Invisible condition while you are Hidden.  It also describes the most common way to "find you" (by perception check).  Sage Advice adds another way to "find you": be able to draw line of sight to the Hidden character (which requires you to be able to ignore the Invisible condition).  

The third paragraph gives the conditions for ending Hidden.  You are Hidden so long as one of those four things don't happen, rules as written.

It nowhere requires you to stay behind cover or remain heavily obscured to remain Hidden.  The conditions to take the Hide Action are not the conditions to remain Hidden, and the rules never say they are.  You're imposing a condition on Hidden that the rules text never does, and does not support.  And you nowhere 'conceal your location', you "conceal yourself", which the game then describes how you do that explicitly: it's making the stealth check.  That happens at the instant of the Hide Action.  Once you've made that stealth check, you are now Hidden.  Full stop.  And since concealing yourself is the stealth roll, which you note the total of and keep until you stop being Hidden, you aren't continuously rolling stealth checks while you're hidden, so you aren't continuously 'concealing yourself'.  You do it once, and then you have the Hidden pseudo-condition until it ends.  (Pseudo because they don't formally make it a condition even though it effectively is).

It's really very simple. Satisfy Hide Action conditions -> take Hide Action -> become Hidden -> gain Invisible condition -> Hidden ends on one of four conditions in last paragraph only.

So you can absolutely sneak across the room without additional cover between you and them and stab them in the back all while Hidden.  (The stabbing will end Hidden after the attack roll).  You don't lose Hidden just because you left cover/obscurement - the rules never say you do.   (How do i know the stabbing is in the back?  Because their passive perception wasn't high enough to notice you.  So they're looking the other way or distracted by something else while you sneak across the room, and don't notice you until the blade is in them.  Your stealth roll controls the narrative.)

The Sage Advice column is responding to a question where the player is Hidden (that is, has taken the Hide Action at some point).  That does not require he is still behind cover.  By construction, some enemy sees him with blindsight or true sight, so we know he is not behind Total Cover or Heavily Obscured (relative to Blindsight/Truesight).  He could be behind 3/4 cover, but he doesn't need to be.  Sage Advice says that fact of being seen means he is 'found'.  But the questioner knows Blindsight and Truesight can see him because they ignore Invisible, its right in his question, so Sage Advice doesn't explain that.  It doesn't need to in order to answer the question.  Would a fuller explanation have been nice?  Absolutely.  But was it necessary to answer the question?  No.  Sage Advice's answer amounts to 'This situation (they have seen him) means he is found'.