I am playing with an order of scribes wizard who is also a deneir priest, who has vast Arcane Knowledge, and Keen Mind with 20 intelligence(who also has 16 wisdom, proficient in perception&investigation so that he can find mistakes in writings, who is also expert in Cartography/practiced expert for thematic purposes)... My DM told me to get 7 levels in wizard class before writing the simplest scrolls, i think that does not make sense, but you do not get to play without DMs, so just ask your DMs and accept your fate, until we have some non optional rules for writing scrolls... -.- (In that level i wonder what he'll tell me when i try to mass produce maps with fabricate spell instead of writing level 1 scrolls, and simply buy the scrolls with money coming from the maps, sigh -.-)
The fact that the DMG guidance is that scrolls are 50% of the value of the equivalent permanent item makes scrolls utterly useless, unless magic items are so rare that you can't find them. If that's true, then scrolls are most likely also rare.
Examples: 3rd level fireball spell
Wand of Fireballs (Rare 500-5,000GP) @ 2,750 GP avg. = 2,750 GP cost. W/4 charges per day = 687 GP /charge/day that can be used as long as you have it. Over 10 days the cost is 69 GP per charge.
Scroll of Fireball (Rare 500-5,000GP) X 50% @ 2,750 GP avg. = 1,375 GP cost. W/1 use= 1,375 GP for one use ever. (20 times the price per use of owning the want for 10 days)
Examples: 1st level feather fall spell
Ring of Feather Falling (Rare 500-5,000GP) @ 2,750 GP avg. = 2,750 GP cost. Unlimited charges per day = 2,750 GP /1 use/day that can be used as long as you have it. Over 10 days the cost is 275 GP per charge.
Scroll of Feather Falling (Rare 500-5,000GP) X 50% @ 2,750 GP avg. = 1,375 GP cost. W/1 use= 1,375 GP for one use ever. (5 times the price per use of owning the ring for 10 days and using it once per day.) Granted, the scroll allows you to use it on your party, if within range, if you all fell together.
I just used the base prices in dmg and what was written in xgte... scribing costs are the same as buying a scroll of the same level after 1st makes no sense.... so I decided to properly reflect costs. However I can understand the time needed for game balancing here is what I decided for my players.
They are already supposed to be half base costs and average cost to craft is half base cost.
Potion of healing, common base cost 100gp half for consumable 50gp in xgte lists crafting as 25gp basically uses this logic to fix prices to make them more affordable.
I assume most of the time required to craft is potentially the time needed to buy the materials needed to cast the spell. Remember spells that consume gp value items would still be an extra amount on top of this.
Yeah, I have a problem with the gross disparity in this. The argument of item versus scroll is legitimate. But why on earth is a 9th level spell essentially 5 times the value of what one can get from a wish spell in value. So you can spend 125,000gp to create upper echelon magic that could only net you a 5th of the investment? I'm not saying it should necessarily be equal, but... c'mon.
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I am playing with an order of scribes wizard who is also a deneir priest, who has vast Arcane Knowledge, and Keen Mind with 20 intelligence(who also has 16 wisdom, proficient in perception&investigation so that he can find mistakes in writings, who is also expert in Cartography/practiced expert for thematic purposes)... My DM told me to get 7 levels in wizard class before writing the simplest scrolls, i think that does not make sense, but you do not get to play without DMs, so just ask your DMs and accept your fate, until we have some non optional rules for writing scrolls... -.- (In that level i wonder what he'll tell me when i try to mass produce maps with fabricate spell instead of writing level 1 scrolls, and simply buy the scrolls with money coming from the maps, sigh -.-)
The fact that the DMG guidance is that scrolls are 50% of the value of the equivalent permanent item makes scrolls utterly useless, unless magic items are so rare that you can't find them. If that's true, then scrolls are most likely also rare.
Examples: 3rd level fireball spell
Wand of Fireballs (Rare 500-5,000GP) @ 2,750 GP avg. = 2,750 GP cost. W/4 charges per day = 687 GP /charge/day that can be used as long as you have it. Over 10 days the cost is 69 GP per charge.
Scroll of Fireball (Rare 500-5,000GP) X 50% @ 2,750 GP avg. = 1,375 GP cost. W/1 use= 1,375 GP for one use ever. (20 times the price per use of owning the want for 10 days)
Examples: 1st level feather fall spell
Ring of Feather Falling (Rare 500-5,000GP) @ 2,750 GP avg. = 2,750 GP cost. Unlimited charges per day = 2,750 GP /1 use/day that can be used as long as you have it. Over 10 days the cost is 275 GP per charge.
Scroll of Feather Falling (Rare 500-5,000GP) X 50% @ 2,750 GP avg. = 1,375 GP cost. W/1 use= 1,375 GP for one use ever. (5 times the price per use of owning the ring for 10 days and using it once per day.) Granted, the scroll allows you to use it on your party, if within range, if you all fell together.
Why would anyone buy a scroll > 1st level?
Wizards and certain sub-class of locks can put scrolls into their books. They crave them scrolls.
I also imagine it is much easier (orders of magnitude) to find an NPC capable of making a spell scroll than a wand.
But, yeah the thread in general seems to be in agreement that the cost of scrolls is too high.
I thought you bought scrolls in order to add them to your spellbook primarily, and beyond that to use in a pinch instead of using up your spell slots.
I just used the base prices in dmg and what was written in xgte... scribing costs are the same as buying a scroll of the same level after 1st makes no sense.... so I decided to properly reflect costs. However I can understand the time needed for game balancing here is what I decided for my players.
Spell level / time / cost
Cantrip / 1day / 15gp. 1st / 1 day / 25gp. 2nd / 3 days / 65gp. 3rd / 1 week / 125gp. 4th / 2 weeks / 625gp. 5th / 4 weeks / 1250gp. 6th / 8 weeks / 6,250gp. 7th / 16 weeks / 9, 375gp. 8th / 32 weeks / 12,500gp. 9th / 48 weeks / 125,000gp
They are already supposed to be half base costs and average cost to craft is half base cost.
Potion of healing, common base cost 100gp half for consumable 50gp in xgte lists crafting as 25gp basically uses this logic to fix prices to make them more affordable.
I assume most of the time required to craft is potentially the time needed to buy the materials needed to cast the spell. Remember spells that consume gp value items would still be an extra amount on top of this.
Yeah, I have a problem with the gross disparity in this. The argument of item versus scroll is legitimate. But why on earth is a 9th level spell essentially 5 times the value of what one can get from a wish spell in value. So you can spend 125,000gp to create upper echelon magic that could only net you a 5th of the investment? I'm not saying it should necessarily be equal, but... c'mon.