Means that a net is considered a tiny resilient rope item basically. You could realistically say if it was made of say chain, it would be a better AC and a break DC closer to manacles.
Either SKT or Volo gives stats for a giant's net.
One thing to note about making net too resilient is its actually kinda powerful. It applies the restrained condition, which gives the target disadvantage on almost everything until they either attack it (with disadvantage) or break it. Either way they had to use their action and spent a turn granting advantage on all attacks. You could actually make a rogue with a crossbow master feat and throw the net on someone, then shoot them with a hand crossbow to almost always get sneak attack.
Basically as far as the action economy goes, you are giving up 1 action to give them the restrained condition for most likely until they use at least one action. (Or part of an action if they have multi attack and can deal slashing damage). If your net requires several attacks or attempts it start getting pretty lopsided pretty quickly.
One thing to note about making net too resilient is its actually kinda powerful. It applies the restrained condition, which gives the target disadvantage on almost everything until they either attack it (with disadvantage) or break it. Either way they had to use their action and spent a turn granting advantage on all attacks. You could actually make a rogue with a crossbow master feat and throw the net on someone, then shoot them with a hand crossbow to almost always get sneak attack.
Basically as far as the action economy goes, you are giving up 1 action to give them the restrained condition for most likely until they use at least one action. (Or part of an action if they have multi attack and can deal slashing damage). If your net requires several attacks or attempts it start getting pretty lopsided pretty quickly.
It really is powerful. I had a 3e character who used nets and whips to subdue/disarm the enemy while the rogue went around stabbing prone things in the face. It was a pretty good combo to be honest.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Thanks for the answers. He decided to go a different route but I keeping the nets idea for a later game. Will have to look into making the nets with stronger stuff or something like mythril, but it seems non cost effective if they get destroyed. Since mend only repairs tears and minor damages and cannot fix destroyed items I may have to come up with a higher level version of that spell. A level 1 "Repair" spell?
Without feats it appears He will always be at disadvantage with the Net attack and the Net states you can only make one attack if you use the net even if you have multiple attacks. Restrained is a strong thing at lower levels for sure, not sure how well it will scale.
Without feats it appears He will always be at disadvantage with the Net attack and the Net states you can only make one attack if you use the net even if you have multiple attacks. Restrained is a strong thing at lower levels for sure, not sure how well it will scale.
K Ray
Restrained is I think almost always strong. It takes a really high bonus to overcome disadvantage, and since it grants a rogue sneak attack, you are really hurting for one round at least no matter your level. Nets aren't meant to keep PCs tied up for the entire combat, but to give the enemy a slight advantage. If all the enemies ganged up on the Netted creature, you are looking at a massive beating.
My main quibbles with nets is that it removes your extra attacks and that the net will probably be destroyed if the target has anything that can deal slashing damage. This means that you either walk around with more than one net, or can only count on getting one use out of it.
Otherwise, I like the idea that an attack with disadvantage (or opening yourself up for an opportunity attack) can impose the restrained condition. It's an ingenious trade-off.
My main quibbles with nets is that it removes your extra attacks and that the net will probably be destroyed if the target has anything that can deal slashing damage. This means that you either walk around with more than one net, or can only count on getting one use out of it.
Otherwise, I like the idea that an attack with disadvantage (or opening yourself up for an opportunity attack) can impose the restrained condition. It's an ingenious trade-off.
Thanks for the answers. He decided to go a different route but I keeping the nets idea for a later game. Will have to look into making the nets with stronger stuff or something like mythril, but it seems non cost effective if they get destroyed. Since mend only repairs tears and minor damages and cannot fix destroyed items I may have to come up with a higher level version of that spell. A level 1 "Repair" spell?
Honestly, I don't see a problem with Mending fixing the net. Think about it, it's a cantrip with a casting time of one minute and can repair up to 1 foot of damage. Even if the damage is more than one foot (it likely would be if they chose to cut the net to get out), you could still take a couple minutes to repair the net during a short rest (remember a short rest is at least an hour, so they could repair 60 feet worth of tearing done to the net)
Without feats it appears He will always be at disadvantage with the Net attack and the Net states you can only make one attack if you use the net even if you have multiple attacks. Restrained is a strong thing at lower levels for sure, not sure how well it will scale.
Is he a monk or a dual-wielding rogue? If it's anything else that gets multiple attacks per round, they have martial weapon proficiency. As for restrained, it's powerful at all levels. Think about this: they have to use their whole action to remove the net OR try attacking it with a slashing weapon (at disadvantage). Also, any attacks against the target are at advantage while they are netted
My main quibbles with nets is that it removes your extra attacks and that the net will probably be destroyed if the target has anything that can deal slashing damage. This means that you either walk around with more than one net, or can only count on getting one use out of it.
Otherwise, I like the idea that an attack with disadvantage (or opening yourself up for an opportunity attack) can impose the restrained condition. It's an ingenious trade-off.fsd
As a PC, nets are probably not your best option.
Idk, I could see a class that only gets one attack or a caster (probably valor bard or cleric with a domain that gives them martial weapon proficiency) who can use their bonus action to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 bonus action like Healing Word, Expeditious Retreat, etc... or maintain a spell's effect like Arcane Hand (Bigby's Hand in the PHB), Heat Metal, etc....
Hell, a ranger can cast Hail of Thorns (as a bonus action) and then attack with the net (which is a ranged weapon). If the attack hits, it causes the target to be restrained and then forces it to make a Dex save (at disadvantage from being restrained) or take 1d10 piercing damage. Obviously this puts the ranger at risk from the thorns damage (since the range of the net is only 5/15), but I'd do it just for the sheer fun of throwing a spiked net. Using what would be a single weapon attack or spell cast to give those with multiple attacks better chances to hit.
This can be super useful for classes with large burst damage, like rogues and paladins who benefit most from a nearly guaranteed hit. Since rogues only get 1 attack per round (unless dual wielding) and paladin's Smite spells require concentration (meaning if they don't hit with it on the round they cast it, they risk wasting the slot if they get hit and fail the Concentration check), not hitting during a round can be a real drain on your damage dealing (worth much more than a typical single attack).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Which means without Crossbow Expert or Sharpshooter you are *always* throwing it with DisAdv.
Because either you're using a range attack in melee (Crossbow Expert) will help here OR you have to be 10-15 feet away at which point you need Sharpshooter to ignore the penalty for long range.
That's a terrible weapon on top of being Martial. Why is throwing a net martial?
Which means without Crossbow Expert or Sharpshooter you are *always* throwing it with DisAdv.
Because either you're using a range attack in melee (Crossbow Expert) will help here OR you have to be 10-15 feet away at which point you need Sharpshooter to ignore the penalty for long range.
That's a terrible weapon on top of being Martial. Why is throwing a net martial?
Hmmm, that is a very good point that I didn't even think about. That always being at disadvantage seems really effing stupid now that you've pointed that out.
It being a martial weapon does make perfect sense, though. Using a net effectively in combat (thinking of gladiators in Rome or Finnick in the Hunger Games) requires a lot of training. But to require martial weapon proficiency AND a feat meant to be used with crossbows doesn't really make sense at all. You have to hit with an attack at disadvantage to grant your teammates advantage?
I retract my statement of it being useful and you are correct in it being a terrible weapon.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The player in question wanted to be a Trident and Net wielding fighter. He changed his mine before the game started but he is one of my players that's constantly changing charcs. The thing in my games is that they are either fighting lots more baddies as they go up in levels or larger creatures so the Net would be useless. With the number of feats fighters get he should be able to easily counter the disadvantage. Knowing him he would not get as much out of it as he wants and will want to change charcs anyway. I can see him getting Enlarge cast himself and then using a Giants net... but carrying it around?
I do not believe you would have disadvantage using the net in melee. The net has the thrown property which means it can be thrown, not needs to be. So that means that it can be used at melee range, which is probably the intended use. It just can only be used on a target up to 15 ft away and anything outside melee range is at disadvantage.
The way I determined this is that a longbow or crossbow just have a range next to ammunition while a melee weapon such as a dagger has the thrown property with a range. So using the net at melee range should be the same as using a dagger at melee range.
It is a ranged weapon. The thrown property is simply how it is used, much like the ammunition property. The difference between the dagger/javelin/light hammer/etc... and the dart/net is that they the former are melee weapons that can be thrown and the latter are ranged weapons that HAVE to be thrown.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Are there ways to improve the Net by the rules or no? It appears even magical nets have the same DC to get out and 5 damage destroys them.
K Ray
Good question. As DM I would say that DC and hit points do not change but it has resistance to non-magical weapons.
Of course, as DM you can always increase the Net's DC and hit points, maybe saying that a particular type of Net and calling it KennethRay's Net.
RAW. Nothing is in stone, however:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/running-the-game#ArmorClass
Means that a net is considered a tiny resilient rope item basically. You could realistically say if it was made of say chain, it would be a better AC and a break DC closer to manacles.
Either SKT or Volo gives stats for a giant's net.
One thing to note about making net too resilient is its actually kinda powerful. It applies the restrained condition, which gives the target disadvantage on almost everything until they either attack it (with disadvantage) or break it. Either way they had to use their action and spent a turn granting advantage on all attacks. You could actually make a rogue with a crossbow master feat and throw the net on someone, then shoot them with a hand crossbow to almost always get sneak attack.
Basically as far as the action economy goes, you are giving up 1 action to give them the restrained condition for most likely until they use at least one action. (Or part of an action if they have multi attack and can deal slashing damage). If your net requires several attacks or attempts it start getting pretty lopsided pretty quickly.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Thanks for the answers. He decided to go a different route but I keeping the nets idea for a later game. Will have to look into making the nets with stronger stuff or something like mythril, but it seems non cost effective if they get destroyed. Since mend only repairs tears and minor damages and cannot fix destroyed items I may have to come up with a higher level version of that spell. A level 1 "Repair" spell?
K-Ray
Without feats it appears He will always be at disadvantage with the Net attack and the Net states you can only make one attack if you use the net even if you have multiple attacks. Restrained is a strong thing at lower levels for sure, not sure how well it will scale.
K Ray
My main quibbles with nets is that it removes your extra attacks and that the net will probably be destroyed if the target has anything that can deal slashing damage. This means that you either walk around with more than one net, or can only count on getting one use out of it.
Otherwise, I like the idea that an attack with disadvantage (or opening yourself up for an opportunity attack) can impose the restrained condition. It's an ingenious trade-off.
My 5e Houserule Considerations. Please comment freely.
Yeah. Which makes it a strange option to include for PCs
My 5e Houserule Considerations. Please comment freely.
KennethRay
With "mend" not working on nets. Probably in Adventure League that would be true but...
but... net is literally a bunch of rope tied together... when you "break" the net you are effectively cutting a bunch of ropes in half.
Is 50' of rope "destroyed" when you cut it with a knife or can the mend spell fix it?
unlike a jar shattering.
Then again could mend fix a jar with enough work? Now it's getting a silly point.
Is he a monk or a dual-wielding rogue? If it's anything else that gets multiple attacks per round, they have martial weapon proficiency. As for restrained, it's powerful at all levels. Think about this: they have to use their whole action to remove the net OR try attacking it with a slashing weapon (at disadvantage). Also, any attacks against the target are at advantage while they are netted
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Hmmm, Arcane Hand isn't showing in the above post for some reason... but is in this one...
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
a Net is Range 5/15.
Which means without Crossbow Expert or Sharpshooter you are *always* throwing it with DisAdv.
Because either you're using a range attack in melee (Crossbow Expert) will help here OR you have to be 10-15 feet away at which point you need Sharpshooter to ignore the penalty for long range.
That's a terrible weapon on top of being Martial. Why is throwing a net martial?
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The player in question wanted to be a Trident and Net wielding fighter. He changed his mine before the game started but he is one of my players that's constantly changing charcs. The thing in my games is that they are either fighting lots more baddies as they go up in levels or larger creatures so the Net would be useless. With the number of feats fighters get he should be able to easily counter the disadvantage. Knowing him he would not get as much out of it as he wants and will want to change charcs anyway. I can see him getting Enlarge cast himself and then using a Giants net... but carrying it around?
K ray
I do not believe you would have disadvantage using the net in melee. The net has the thrown property which means it can be thrown, not needs to be. So that means that it can be used at melee range, which is probably the intended use. It just can only be used on a target up to 15 ft away and anything outside melee range is at disadvantage.
The way I determined this is that a longbow or crossbow just have a range next to ammunition while a melee weapon such as a dagger has the thrown property with a range. So using the net at melee range should be the same as using a dagger at melee range.
According to the rule of ranged attack in close combat, ranged attacks within 5 feet from the target are made with disadvantage. Net are no exception:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/10/25/are-attacks-with-a-net-at-disadvantage/
It is a ranged weapon. The thrown property is simply how it is used, much like the ammunition property. The difference between the dagger/javelin/light hammer/etc... and the dart/net is that they the former are melee weapons that can be thrown and the latter are ranged weapons that HAVE to be thrown.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
You guys are correct, I should have noticed its under the the martial ranged weapon category thus making it a ranged weapon.