We're playing Out of the Abyss and my players are getting creative.
Say an enemy (quaggoth) falls 100 feet and lands on another creature (another quaggoth). How much damage would that do to the creature below that is crushed? 10d6? Half that?
Also, how would you adjudicate an attempt by an unarmed character to steal a prone enemy's sheathed weapon (shortsword)? I was thinking maybe contested Dexterity checks, but is that too easy?
For the falling situation: I guess it is not a bad idea to apply the damage of falling to the second quaggoth (10d6 in case of 100 feet falling) since the creatures involved are of the same size, with this additional rule: DC 15 DEX saving throw for half the damage; if it succeeds by 5 or more it takes no damage.
For the stealing a sheathed weapon situation, I would say a contest of Sleight of Hand. I would also grant advantage to the sword's holder, since likely the position of the sword is more favourable for him.
I would split the falling damage between the two creatures. Maybe apply full damage but both can make a dex save for half.
Treat grabbing the sword as a pickpocket attempt, or a strongarm grab.
Pickpocket-use an action and makes a sleight of hand check against perception (at disadvantage if target is aware of the aggressor).
Strongarm - use an action to make an athletics check opposed by athletics or acrobatics (defenders choice). This is a grapple attempt, except instead of grabbing the target (which keeps them prone) you grab their sheathed weapon (or realistically anything else).
10d6 falling damage to both creatures. if the non-falling creature is aware of the other creature falling towards it, it can make a DEX saving throw to avoid being hit, full damage on a fail, zero damage on a save.
To steal the sword, without taking the scabbard is a sleight of hand check with advantage because the target is prone. To take the sword and scabbard perhaps an athletics check to rip it off?
I might have to attacker make an "Attack Roll" to "hit" the target. If he "hits" I'm give him half damage and full damage to the target. That said I'd also give the player 1 weapon damage die (I'm assuming they are doing this with a weapon out)
Either give the target a DEX saving throw to avoid the attack or I'd give the Player an Attack roll to hit. I'm more partial to go with the Player making an Attack roll because it gives the player the feeling of more "agency".)
That said I'm VERY prone to rewarding Jackie Chan-esk stupidity, but I favor "Rule of Cool" heavily.
Taking an undrawn weapon from an adversary.
It depends on if you consider the item "attended" or not. If it's "unattended" then it just happens. If it's "attended" then it's a resisted check. Sleight of Hand seems appropriate, although a Big Stupid Fighter could argue a Strength Save with me.
I'm all in favor of dex save to avoid being hit, and the squished creature takes amount of damage the falling creature takes.
To get the sword is probably going to be a contest of strength. Slight of hand isn't really approprate as you aren't trying to stealthily take the item without being noticed. You are already noticed and the prone target can still act to prevent you from taking the item.
For the falling damage, I'd say split the damage between the two giving the one being landed on a chance to avoid it in the form of a Dexterity saving throw. If they succeed on the saving throw they can either choose to move out of the way (making the falling creature take the full damage) or attempt to catch the creature in order to reduce the damage they take from the falling creature by half (the falling creature would still take half damage - indicating that they are caught, but the creature attempting to catch would take 1/4 of the falling damage). Unless you are Superman, then somehow falling from the top of a skyscraper and being caught on the ground somehow makes you safe and not just split in three by his arms? I'll never understand the physics behind that (then again his punches are so fast and so powerful that they would cause sonic booms so strong that it would be like setting off multiple nuclear bombs - minus the radiation: so physics kinda takes a back door with him).
To get the sword is probably going to be a contest of strength. Slight of hand isn't really approprate as you aren't trying to stealthily take the item without being noticed. You are already noticed and the prone target can still act to prevent you from taking the item.
As for the taking the weapon out of a sheath, I'd say Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) would work just fine. I'm basing this off of old editions of D&D where the Sleight of Hand check would allow you to steal the item, but the user was able to make an opposed Spot check to notice you taking it. The check is what allows you to actually TAKE the item, the opposed roll is to see if they actually notice it being taken. Clearly, in this case, they would be more prone to noticing it (since it's a noticeable weight being lifted off their belt AND you're in likely in combat with them since they are prone), so either give the target advantage or just straight up success on their Wisdom (Perception) check to notice the item being stolen.
The check should be somewhat more difficult than a typical pickpocket attempt, since sheaths are positioned to make it easy for the wearer to draw the weapon, but from another angle it would probably be more difficult. I'd say a DC 15ish if they are surprised/not aware of you or an opposed check if they know you are there.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
To get the sword is probably going to be a contest of strength. Slight of hand isn't really approprate as you aren't trying to stealthily take the item without being noticed. You are already noticed and the prone target can still act to prevent you from taking the item.
As for the taking the weapon out of a sheath, I'd say Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) would work just fine. I'm basing this off of old editions of D&D where the Sleight of Hand check would allow you to steal the item, but the user was able to make an opposed Spot check to notice you taking it. The check is what allows you to actually TAKE the item, the opposed roll is to see if they actually notice it being taken. Clearly, in this case, they would be more prone to noticing it (since it's a noticeable weight being lifted off their belt AND you're in likely in combat with them since they are prone), so either give the target advantage or just straight up success on their Wisdom (Perception) check to notice the item being stolen.
The check should be somewhat more difficult than a typical pickpocket attempt, since sheaths are positioned to make it easy for the wearer to draw the weapon, but from another angle it would probably be more difficult. I'd say a DC 15ish if they are surprised/not aware of you or an opposed check if they know you are there.
I would say sleight of hand would be appropriate if you were trying to sneakily steal the item. There is no trickery involved here. I am assuming the Character that is trying to steal the item is the one who pushed the other person prone. Basically the prone person is entirely aware that you are there and is looking at you, thus it is impossible to attempt a slight of hand check.
Now, if you went prone on top of the person, then I'd say sleight of hand may apply.
Sleight of Hand has always been a "catch-all" umbrella for theft (or at least since 3e - can't remember what it was in 2e). Again, it's not necessarily about sneakily doing it. It's just about stealing.
Now, the better you are at stealing, the better you are at not being noticed while doing it. But, I could easily walk up and take something out of your pocket (assuming your pockets aren't super tight). So, I could use the skill associated with pickpocketing (Sleight of Hand) to steal something. Now, my ability to do it without you noticing depends upon my skill at it and your ability to notice me. If I succeed, I'll have the item in my hand, but I'll likely tip you off that I've taken it (since I'm not very dexterous). If I fail, you'll probably also notice me failing.
Again, an opposed check would make sense if they are fast enough to stop you. Just because you are staring as someone doesn't mean you are aware that they are going to take something from you. How many times have you seen someone take someone else's hat off of their head? It's not that they didn't know they were there. The hat wearer was just caught off guard by them (not expecting them to take the hat).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Sleight of Hand has always been a "catch-all" umbrella for theft (or at least since 3e - can't remember what it was in 2e). Again, it's not necessarily about sneakily doing it. It's just about stealing.
Now, the better you are at stealing, the better you are at not being noticed while doing it. But, I could easily walk up and take something out of your pocket (assuming your pockets aren't super tight). So, I could use the skill associated with pickpocketing (Sleight of Hand) to steal something. Now, my ability to do it without you noticing depends upon my skill at it and your ability to notice me. If I succeed, I'll have the item in my hand, but I'll likely tip you off that I've taken it (since I'm not very dexterous). If I fail, you'll probably also notice me failing.
Again, an opposed check would make sense if they are fast enough to stop you. Just because you are staring as someone doesn't mean you are aware that they are going to take something from you. How many times have you seen someone take someone else's hat off of their head? It's not that they didn't know they were there. The hat wearer was just caught off guard by them (not expecting them to take the hat).
The point is the description of slight of hand doesn't seem to include blatant attempts to take something off of a person, at least based on its description. Its possible if you read third edition rules into 5e you might come to that conclusion, but I don't see that from the description of the ability. If you are just trying to take the sword out of the hilt, I'd say it require a different check. If you bend down on the guy, throw a punch toward his face while using your other arm to go for the sword, sure.
If he was face first on the ground, I'm not even sure it would possible to take the sword as his body and the hilt may cover the sword.
Which skill is needed to take the sword off of the prone guy, I believe kind of depends on the description provided by the player. Listening to how the player wants to attempt to take the sword, the DM can call for Sleight of Hand or Athletics. They can both fit somehow.
Which skill is needed to take the sword off of the prone guy, I believe kind of depends on the description provided by the player. Listening to how the player wants to attempt to take the sword, the DM can call for Sleight of Hand or Athletics. They can both fit somehow.
Agree, though maybe instead of it being a straightforward check it could be a contest Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) vs Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics) vs Strength (Athletics). Or the target has to make a saving throw (Str or Dex) based on the roll and the skill used, since they are trying to prevent it from happening.
I could also see it being a variation of the Disarm action (Action Options -> Disarm on page 271 of the DMG): Attack roll (using Strength or Dexterity) contested by the defender's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (based on what the attacker used).
In either case, I'd say if the target is prone, the person attempting the steal gets advantage.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I feel like the target being prone is going to make it difficult to get to the sheath in the first place, so you don't really have advantage.
I'm all for giving a player who is somehow misdirecting the person a slight of hand check. Beyond that probably going to be opposed strength checks (I don't feel Acrobatics or athletics is relevant). Might opt for the disarm action.
I feel like the target being prone is going to make it difficult to get to the sheath in the first place, so you don't really have advantage.
I'm all for giving a player who is somehow misdirecting the person a slight of hand check. Beyond that probably going to be opposed strength checks (I don't feel Acrobatics or athletics is relevant). Might opt for the disarm action.
Unless they happen to fall with the sheath underneath them, it's not going to be anymore difficult than any other pickpocket attempt.
You seem to really be hung up on the whole "can't do it if they can see you thing". I mean, have you really never had someone take something from you when you weren't expecting them to? A hat, your phone, anything? It's not really a strength contest when you are grabbing it from someone who isn't expecting it. Think about purse snatchers. They take it from you even though you know they are doing it. The ones who don't get the purse off the victim's shoulder (and thus a struggle ensues) those are people who failed their sleight of hand check.
Hell, the actual idea of sleight of hand is that you move so quickly that even when people are observing you, you are able to do something. Think about magicians or street cons. You are actually watching them EXPECTING them to do something, yet you don't see it happen. Hell, some of the best sleight of hand shows involve the magician physically placing an object in your hand and then that object is either no longer in your hand, or multiple of that object end up in your hand. You are literally the target, you know they are going to do something, you are watching them AS they are doing it, and they are still able to do it. I mean, honestly, you are giving people way too much credit to be able to defend themselves from a sleight of hand professional (especially in this case when they were just knocked down).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I feel like the target being prone is going to make it difficult to get to the sheath in the first place, so you don't really have advantage.
I'm all for giving a player who is somehow misdirecting the person a slight of hand check. Beyond that probably going to be opposed strength checks (I don't feel Acrobatics or athletics is relevant). Might opt for the disarm action.
Unless they happen to fall with the sheath underneath them, it's not going to be anymore difficult than any other pickpocket attempt.
You seem to really be hung up on the whole "can't do it if they can see you thing". I mean, have you really never had someone take something from you when you weren't expecting them to? A hat, your phone, anything? It's not really a strength contest when you are grabbing it from someone who isn't expecting it. Think about purse snatchers. They take it from you even though you know they are doing it. The ones who don't get the purse off the victim's shoulder (and thus a struggle ensues) those are people who failed their sleight of hand check.
Hell, the actual idea of sleight of hand is that you move so quickly that even when people are observing you, you are able to do something. Think about magicians or street cons. You are actually watching them EXPECTING them to do something, yet you don't see it happen. Hell, some of the best sleight of hand shows involve the magician physically placing an object in your hand and then that object is either no longer in your hand, or multiple of that object end up in your hand. You are literally the target, you know they are going to do something, you are watching them AS they are doing it, and they are still able to do it. I mean, honestly, you are giving people way too much credit to be able to defend themselves from a sleight of hand professional (especially in this case when they were just knocked down).
If you pushed me down I would certainly be expecting it. It is 100% impossible for you to push me down and then reach into my pocket without my knowledge, no matter how good you are. I'm going to have a reaction to that. Even more so if you reach toward a gun holstered on my side. Yes you could have walked up behind me without my knowledge of taken it via slight of hand, you can't push me down and reach down to take it via slight of hand. Odds are if you just pushed me down, I'm going to be reaching toward it as well.
I would even say that slight of hand doesn't apply to having your purse snatched. And very much an opposed str check would apply. You can grab the purse and hold on to it. Now if the PC says they are going to dash toward the lady and grab the purse, maybe. But walking up to them (even prone) and just taking it, would not allow slight of hand.
Street magicians and such are a completely different case.
Essentially I see nothing in the rules that would indicate Slight of Hand being a catch all beyond the description of the ability itself.
If you pushed me down I would certainly be expecting it. It is 100% impossible for you to push me down and then reach into my pocket without my knowledge, no matter how good you are.
It seems like you think that the technique many real pickpockets use where they intentionally bump into someone (and even apologize) to create an opportunity to lift something is actually less likely to result in a successful lift than the technique of trying to remain completely unnoticed. Is that the case, or are you just meaning that actually knocking you to the ground - not just intentionally noticeable physical contact of any kind - trips your "I'm being burgled!" sensor?
If you pushed me down I would certainly be expecting it. It is 100% impossible for you to push me down and then reach into my pocket without my knowledge, no matter how good you are.
It seems like you think that the technique many real pickpockets use where they intentionally bump into someone (and even apologize) to create an opportunity to lift something is actually less likely to result in a successful lift than the technique of trying to remain completely unnoticed. Is that the case, or are you just meaning that actually knocking you to the ground - not just intentionally noticeable physical contact of any kind - trips your "I'm being burgled!" sensor?
No, you simply changed the situation. Bumping into someone and apologizing while reaching for somethingwould be a fair use of slight of hand (baring any clarification as to whether or not it is physically possible to remove a sword without notice from a sheath).
Someone knocks you down and reaches down for your sword is not slight of hand (especially as part of combat which I was assuming was the case). Someone "accidentally" knocking you down and then offering to help you up while reaching for your sword would be slight of hand (Most especially being outside of combat).
I feel like the target being prone is going to make it difficult to get to the sheath in the first place, so you don't really have advantage.
I'm all for giving a player who is somehow misdirecting the person a slight of hand check. Beyond that probably going to be opposed strength checks (I don't feel Acrobatics or athletics is relevant). Might opt for the disarm action.
Unless they happen to fall with the sheath underneath them, it's not going to be anymore difficult than any other pickpocket attempt.
You seem to really be hung up on the whole "can't do it if they can see you thing". I mean, have you really never had someone take something from you when you weren't expecting them to? A hat, your phone, anything? It's not really a strength contest when you are grabbing it from someone who isn't expecting it. Think about purse snatchers. They take it from you even though you know they are doing it. The ones who don't get the purse off the victim's shoulder (and thus a struggle ensues) those are people who failed their sleight of hand check.
Hell, the actual idea of sleight of hand is that you move so quickly that even when people are observing you, you are able to do something. Think about magicians or street cons. You are actually watching them EXPECTING them to do something, yet you don't see it happen. Hell, some of the best sleight of hand shows involve the magician physically placing an object in your hand and then that object is either no longer in your hand, or multiple of that object end up in your hand. You are literally the target, you know they are going to do something, you are watching them AS they are doing it, and they are still able to do it. I mean, honestly, you are giving people way too much credit to be able to defend themselves from a sleight of hand professional (especially in this case when they were just knocked down).
If you pushed me down I would certainly be expecting it. It is 100% impossible for you to push me down and then reach into my pocket without my knowledge, no matter how good you are. I'm going to have a reaction to that. Even more so if you reach toward a gun holstered on my side. Yes you could have walked up behind me without my knowledge of taken it via slight of hand, you can't push me down and reach down to take it via slight of hand. Odds are if you just pushed me down, I'm going to be reaching toward it as well.
I would even say that slight of hand doesn't apply to having your purse snatched. And very much an opposed str check would apply. You can grab the purse and hold on to it. Now if the PC says they are going to dash toward the lady and grab the purse, maybe. But walking up to them (even prone) and just taking it, would not allow slight of hand.
Street magicians and such are a completely different case.
Essentially I see nothing in the rules that would indicate Slight of Hand being a catch all beyond the description of the ability itself.
You seem to be implying that nobody has ever taken anything from you without a struggle. Which I can almost guarantee is not true. If you've seriously never had anything grab something from your hand, take your hat off your head, or anything similar, then 1) I don't believe you and 2) I can't help you with explaining how the act of taking something from someone who knows you are there actually happens.
For the rest of us in the real world, where stuff like that occurs all the time, we know that no amount of strength can prepare you for such an action.
Considering there is no skill that encompasses the event in question, you simply have to adapt an already existent skill. Considering its not a tug-of-war, but rather the ability to react to something happening, it's clearly a matter of dexterity; not strength. Furthermore one skill already deals with taking things that a person isn't holding AND earlier editions have used that skill before this purpose.
I get that you can't get over the "you can't steal something if I'm watching you" idea, but 1) it's actually already done in real life (using the method that shares the name of the skill in question) and 2) it makes so much more sense than the idea that you are somehow able to be strong enough to not have something taken from you that you aren't holding.
If you could please explain how you can have a contest of strength over something you aren't holding, that would be great.
Sleight of Hand. Whenever you attempt an act of legerdemain or manual trickery, such as planting something on someone else or concealing an object on your person, make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check. ***The DM might also call for a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to determine whether you can lift a coin purse off another person or slip something out of another person’s pocket.***
Notice how it doesn't say anything in the second part about misdirection, without the target seeing it, etc... How is taking a weapon any different than a coin purse or the generic "something" out of another person's pocket? Hell, coin purses are generally tied to a belt, as opposed to a weapon which is just sheathed. Meaning it's likely more involved/difficult to lift a coin purse than it is to lift a sheathed weapon (though it's definitely more noticeable that the latter is gone).
Mage Hand Legerdemain allows you to steal an object using Sleight of Hand from a distance. Fast Hands lets you use Cunning Action to use Sleight of Hand as a bonus action. NEITHER of these abilities state anything about requiring being hidden or not being noticed (and only MHL says anything about an opposed roll, and that's just to be noticed).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Also, I've seen plenty of times where a thief/pirate/musketeer grabs a weapon from a holster/sheath and shoves the person away from them, all in one fluid moron (mostly in movies and television, because my life obviously isn't that exciting).
In fact, that move is pretty much a staple in any movie with a swashbuckling hero or bank robbing criminal (the last part is usually followed up by the criminal backhanding the guard/officer with the gun).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Which skill is needed to take the sword off of the prone guy, I believe kind of depends on the description provided by the player. Listening to how the player wants to attempt to take the sword, the DM can call for Sleight of Hand or Athletics. They can both fit somehow.
Agree, though maybe instead of it being a straightforward check it could be a contest Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) vs Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics) vs Strength (Athletics). Or the target has to make a saving throw (Str or Dex) based on the roll and the skill used, since they are trying to prevent it from happening.
I could also see it being a variation of the Disarm action (Action Options -> Disarm on page 271 of the DMG): Attack roll (using Strength or Dexterity) contested by the defender's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (based on what the attacker used).
In either case, I'd say if the target is prone, the person attempting the steal gets advantage.
Yes I agree, I intended a contest for those skills.
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We're playing Out of the Abyss and my players are getting creative.
Say an enemy (quaggoth) falls 100 feet and lands on another creature (another quaggoth). How much damage would that do to the creature below that is crushed? 10d6? Half that?
Also, how would you adjudicate an attempt by an unarmed character to steal a prone enemy's sheathed weapon (shortsword)? I was thinking maybe contested Dexterity checks, but is that too easy?
Thanks!
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For the falling situation: I guess it is not a bad idea to apply the damage of falling to the second quaggoth (10d6 in case of 100 feet falling) since the creatures involved are of the same size, with this additional rule: DC 15 DEX saving throw for half the damage; if it succeeds by 5 or more it takes no damage.
For the stealing a sheathed weapon situation, I would say a contest of Sleight of Hand. I would also grant advantage to the sword's holder, since likely the position of the sword is more favourable for him.
I would split the falling damage between the two creatures. Maybe apply full damage but both can make a dex save for half.
Treat grabbing the sword as a pickpocket attempt, or a strongarm grab.
Pickpocket-use an action and makes a sleight of hand check against perception (at disadvantage if target is aware of the aggressor).
Strongarm - use an action to make an athletics check opposed by athletics or acrobatics (defenders choice). This is a grapple attempt, except instead of grabbing the target (which keeps them prone) you grab their sheathed weapon (or realistically anything else).
10d6 falling damage to both creatures. if the non-falling creature is aware of the other creature falling towards it, it can make a DEX saving throw to avoid being hit, full damage on a fail, zero damage on a save.
To steal the sword, without taking the scabbard is a sleight of hand check with advantage because the target is prone. To take the sword and scabbard perhaps an athletics check to rip it off?
In the Falling Damage:
I might have to attacker make an "Attack Roll" to "hit" the target. If he "hits" I'm give him half damage and full damage to the target. That said I'd also give the player 1 weapon damage die (I'm assuming they are doing this with a weapon out)
Either give the target a DEX saving throw to avoid the attack or I'd give the Player an Attack roll to hit. I'm more partial to go with the Player making an Attack roll because it gives the player the feeling of more "agency".)
That said I'm VERY prone to rewarding Jackie Chan-esk stupidity, but I favor "Rule of Cool" heavily.
Taking an undrawn weapon from an adversary.
It depends on if you consider the item "attended" or not. If it's "unattended" then it just happens. If it's "attended" then it's a resisted check. Sleight of Hand seems appropriate, although a Big Stupid Fighter could argue a Strength Save with me.
I'm all in favor of dex save to avoid being hit, and the squished creature takes amount of damage the falling creature takes.
To get the sword is probably going to be a contest of strength. Slight of hand isn't really approprate as you aren't trying to stealthily take the item without being noticed. You are already noticed and the prone target can still act to prevent you from taking the item.
For the falling damage, I'd say split the damage between the two giving the one being landed on a chance to avoid it in the form of a Dexterity saving throw. If they succeed on the saving throw they can either choose to move out of the way (making the falling creature take the full damage) or attempt to catch the creature in order to reduce the damage they take from the falling creature by half (the falling creature would still take half damage - indicating that they are caught, but the creature attempting to catch would take 1/4 of the falling damage). Unless you are Superman, then somehow falling from the top of a skyscraper and being caught on the ground somehow makes you safe and not just split in three by his arms? I'll never understand the physics behind that (then again his punches are so fast and so powerful that they would cause sonic booms so strong that it would be like setting off multiple nuclear bombs - minus the radiation: so physics kinda takes a back door with him).
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Sleight of Hand has always been a "catch-all" umbrella for theft (or at least since 3e - can't remember what it was in 2e). Again, it's not necessarily about sneakily doing it. It's just about stealing.
Now, the better you are at stealing, the better you are at not being noticed while doing it. But, I could easily walk up and take something out of your pocket (assuming your pockets aren't super tight). So, I could use the skill associated with pickpocketing (Sleight of Hand) to steal something. Now, my ability to do it without you noticing depends upon my skill at it and your ability to notice me. If I succeed, I'll have the item in my hand, but I'll likely tip you off that I've taken it (since I'm not very dexterous). If I fail, you'll probably also notice me failing.
Again, an opposed check would make sense if they are fast enough to stop you. Just because you are staring as someone doesn't mean you are aware that they are going to take something from you. How many times have you seen someone take someone else's hat off of their head? It's not that they didn't know they were there. The hat wearer was just caught off guard by them (not expecting them to take the hat).
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Which skill is needed to take the sword off of the prone guy, I believe kind of depends on the description provided by the player. Listening to how the player wants to attempt to take the sword, the DM can call for Sleight of Hand or Athletics. They can both fit somehow.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I feel like the target being prone is going to make it difficult to get to the sheath in the first place, so you don't really have advantage.
I'm all for giving a player who is somehow misdirecting the person a slight of hand check. Beyond that probably going to be opposed strength checks (I don't feel Acrobatics or athletics is relevant). Might opt for the disarm action.
You seem to really be hung up on the whole "can't do it if they can see you thing". I mean, have you really never had someone take something from you when you weren't expecting them to? A hat, your phone, anything? It's not really a strength contest when you are grabbing it from someone who isn't expecting it. Think about purse snatchers. They take it from you even though you know they are doing it. The ones who don't get the purse off the victim's shoulder (and thus a struggle ensues) those are people who failed their sleight of hand check.
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Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Also, I've seen plenty of times where a thief/pirate/musketeer grabs a weapon from a holster/sheath and shoves the person away from them, all in one fluid moron (mostly in movies and television, because my life obviously isn't that exciting).
In fact, that move is pretty much a staple in any movie with a swashbuckling hero or bank robbing criminal (the last part is usually followed up by the criminal backhanding the guard/officer with the gun).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.