How does 5e handle magic items coming into contact with harsh effects? Can they be destroyed? If so, under what conditions?
For example wilting under the effects of a dragon's breath weapon? Is it fair to destroy a player's magical items that are caught in the blast? In a gelatinous cube? A vat of acid? Should the items have a saving throw? Can they be repaired? How can they be repaired?
Just looked it up in the dmg and it said that they are at least as resilient as other items but resisted damage done to them. If this is the case, how much HP do they have and do they continue to lose these HP over successive campaigns until they break or do they 'regenerate' somehow?
5th edition doesn't really do anything specific for destruction of items like weapons and armor. There are some general suggestions made which a DM can use to fine-tune something for their own group's preferences, which can be found here.
That said, as a DM I am an advocate of having magical weapons be indestructible outside of very special circumstances, since the 5th edition game has made magical items exempt from most (if not all) of the effects written in the rules which damage or destroy objects (see the acid features of various oozes, or the rusting touch of a rust monster).
And as mundane items are concerned, I don't see anything but agitating being gained by adding rulings back into the game like prior editions had about items being destroyed even if not specifically targeted because its just more dice rolling and more book-keeping and for no outcome other than to inconvenience characters (and players).
I feel like if you put your magical armor in a pit of acid over night, the acid would eventually destroy the enchantment and the item.
However, if you fall into a pit of acid your magical items should be safe.
For most DMs I feel magical items end up destroyed becuase they are discovered to be game breaking. Other DMs just enjoy watching their players suffer.
Very much unfair to destroy a player's equipment from monster attacks, including breath weapons from Dragons. Also could turn the fight into a tpk due to the loss of items.
It should be a rare case for Magic items to end up destroyed. And the more legendary the magic item, the more rare and impossible that should be.
In my mind, only god-like creature can destroy magical item, like elemental princes, demon lords....
For legendary item, I like to think that the party have to go in some magical place to get the item destroy (an elemtal node or some onther mitical place connected to the some plane).
As others have eloquently stated, magical items should be resilient to "standard damage sources". Perhaps your DM feels that dragon breath, being somewhat "iconic", is not a standard damage. Or did you roll a 1 on your saving throw which created a domino effect with everything you wore?
Each DM will have a slightly different approach to item damage depending on when they came into the D&D metagame. Some may pull out the 1979 DMG and have you make item saving throws versus breath weapon. Some may approach it the 3.xE way and assign hardness and hit points. Some will take the "god or tarrasque only" approach to destroying an item. As long the DM has a logical explanation, go with it. If they pull the "because I'm the DM, that's why!" attitude, you have no hope to appeal to logic and accept the ruling and weigh your options for another DM at a later time.
I am sorry your armour was munchkined. Usually magic items that are lost easily tend to be replaced easily as that's the DM's style.
As a side note, I've always loved that magic items are immune to non-magical damage. I can create some amusing situations where the players "realize" the dangers that previous Adventures failed to head.
If I wanted a party to come back to a place as a plot device but further in the adventure. Them spotting a pit of acid with magic items at the bottom is kind of a favorite.
The characters can't get the items without dying from the acid and they weight to much to be "mage handed". It creates a situation where the players know there is a puzzle and they will come back when they have a Protection from Energy spell or a "scroll of Conjure Acid Mephet" or "Protection from Energy: Acid" like that. Once I drop the "key" to the puzzle being specific enough to remind them of the acid pool, they will usually realize they need to go back. Then the plot device comes full circle... and they get the loot which was out of reach at the previously low level.
GM fiat aside, it's good for all players/GM to know the rules of the world.
In previous editions magic items have been indestructible except by magic items of equal or greater power. They seem to be a lot looser in interpretation now.
I'm with AaronOfBarbaria.
I don't miss the days of having to calculate that longsword at hardness 10 and 5hp, and having GMs roll for damage equipment takes, and bla bla bla. It ultimately just made you want to play Vow of Poverty Monk!
Most of the time, gear that is on your person is immune to the effects of spells and abilities (or at most require a saving throw). I would almost never rule that an indirect attack would damage your equipment (unless the spell directly states that it does). Now, if you are trying to sunder the weapon/armor, then that might be a different story. However, I don't know one person/creature that would be in a life and death situation that would try to break someone's weapon/armor rather than simply attacking that person (which is why I never understood the 3e sunder rules existing).
And if your DM ever tells you that they are including damaging armor because it makes it adds a more realistic feel to the game, ask them how a rogue/monk is able to realistically completely avoid the damage of a fireball that explodes in their face by being "evasive" (in fact, ask them how the fireball exists in the first place)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Sundering was incredibly powerful... assuming you didn't care about losing the gold value of that equipment.
As a magical longsword had 10 hardness and 5hp, plus +2 hardness and +10hp PER level of magical enchantment.
This mean instead of fighting against a level 12 Weapon Master Fighter with a longsword and trying to get rid of all 100 hit points...
You only need to deal 15 damage +12 per enchantment level to his sword and now you're fighting a guy who has unarmed attacks (which Fighters were trained for so you got AoO).
It was a way to "disarm" the enemy, often rendering many enemies moot.
Bows were easy meat at 5 hardness and 5 hp, so a even a low level character could clean through a group of archery rendering them without weapons.
That said I always hated the module "Shackled City". I called B.S. on our DM (he was running Adventure League style, so GM fiat was less of an issue) because there is a Giant in there with a Adamantine Greatsword and he's designed to use Sunder to destroy the party's weapons before a big fight. The Giant's Greatsword wasn't MAGICAL, so it was incapable of damaging weapons according to the rules. So, I have a personal hatred of the Sunder Rules, that said the Disarm & Trip spiked chain fighter was an absolute monster.
Sundering was incredibly powerful... assuming you didn't care about losing the gold value of that equipment.
As a magical longsword had 10 hardness and 5hp, plus +2 hardness and +10hp PER level of magical enchantment.
This mean instead of fighting against a level 12 Weapon Master Fighter with a longsword and trying to get rid of all 100 hit points...
You only need to deal 15 damage +12 per enchantment level to his sword and now you're fighting a guy who has unarmed attacks (which Fighters were trained for so you got AoO).
It was a way to "disarm" the enemy, often rendering many enemies moot.
Bows were easy meat at 5 hardness and 5 hp, so a even a low level character could clean through a group of archery rendering them without weapons.
That said I always hated the module "Shackled City". I called B.S. on our DM (he was running Adventure League style, so GM fiat was less of an issue) because there is a Giant in there with a Adamantine Greatsword and he's designed to use Sunder to destroy the party's weapons before a big fight. The Giant's Greatsword wasn't MAGICAL, so it was incapable of damaging weapons according to the rules. So, I have a personal hatred of the Sunder Rules, that said the Disarm & Trip spiked chain fighter was an absolute monster.
1) You had to hit the object (which provoked an attack of opportunity); requiring an opposed attack roll. Generally speaking, any single melee class that is fighting against your party is going to have a higher base attack bonus and likely equal or higher strength.
2) The hardness is a damage reduction. So you'll have to deal more than 10 damage with your weapon attack to even damage the long sword (if it's magical, up that minimum requirement. So, let's say you are wielding a 2h weapon and have a 20 strength. If you hit the weapon, and deal maximum damage, that's a total of 17 damage (7 to the weapon) and you'll break the weapon. If you hit and deal average damage? That's 11 and you just dealt 1 damage to the weapon. It will take you 5 turns on average to destroy a longsword.
3) What kind of fighters have you seen with only one melee weapon?
4) Generally speaking, just getting close to an archer made them not use their bows anymore. All non-Arcane Archers (and likely even Arcane Archers) have melee weapons as backup for when combat comes to them, so it's not like they are defenseless while you are attacking their weapons. Again, you might as well just move next to them and attack them instead of their weapons.
5) There weren't any rules saying that you HAD to use a magical weapon to Sunder (even against other magical weapons). The fact that the giant was using a 2h weapon meant that it had a +4 attack bonus for using a 2h weapon and a +4 attack bonus per size category larger (so +4 for large or +8 for huge). That's +8-12 to the attack bonus for weapon and size and a +17-26. So a storm giant gets +38 to sunder attacks (a level 20 fighter with a greatsword only gets +24, meaning the giant only has to roll a 6 for a guaranteed sunder) and deals 4d6+21 damage, meaning even if you have a +5 Adamantine weapon, he only has to roll 10 damage to damage the weapon.
So yeah, in THAT case, I could see using sunder vs trying to hit the PC, but you've got to be a Dick of a DM to do that (imo).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Most fighters I ran into only carried a primary weapon and maybe a backup weapon... maybe? Do daggers count? Money was a scarce resource and most PCs I know don't carry more then 1 magic weapon, maybe a 2nd a higher levels because of disarm). It's not cost effective. Ditto with NPCs you field against the players, every item you give an NPC is an item the PC's will have.
The backup weapon is always a joke compared to their primary weapon, unless the user is expecting to lose weapons. You can't exactly walk around with multiple greatswords.
Also if you specialize for it, Sunder was very easy. Ignoring the "need" 20 strength (18 was pretty expected of a Fighter back then of a decent level)
Improved Sunder made it so you ignore the AoO can gave you a +4 an additional the opposed attack roll.
If you lacked the feat and had a Reach weapon the AoO didn't matter.
If you used a 2 handed weapon you had an additional +4 on the opposed attack roll.
If you used a light weapon, you had an additional -4 to the opposed attack roll.
For every size a user has over the target, that user gained an additional +4/size to the opposed attack roll.
If your weapon is Adamantine you ignore hardness.
Acid/Sonic attack dealt full damage
It was pretty easy to "win" that contest, or disarms/trips especially if you used a weapon with bonuses to it. Enlarger Person is a 2nd level spell, giving the allied Fighter +2 Str, +1 Size catagory for an overall +6 to the contested roll and +3 damage if holding a 2 handed weapon.
2 handed weapon, power attack 4 points (offsets your bonus for having a 2 handed) you now deal +8 damage.
Assuming you win the contest: Now a Str 18 fighter is dealing (assuming reach and no feat) 1d10+4(str)+2(strx0.5)+8(power attack)+1(magic). That 1d10+15 damage. 2 attacks *should* destroy the weapon. If it's Adamantine it takes 1, without as much work.
By the Gods do I NOT miss 3.5's algebra to win.
Also... he was a d**k of a GM
Also, you are correct. I did some research and "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck" was an errated out rule, and removed from future printings. Which is why I remember reading it.
Magical Items should be near indestructible. Which makes it a great "oh ****" moment for the players if a Magical Weapon/Armor gets destroyed. like a Dire Rust Monster strong enough to eat enchanted metal, or whatever.
If you are stuck buying your magic weapons, then yeah, it would be hard to have backups. But if you find magic weapons, its possible to have a backup, even if it isn't one you necessarily use all the time.
Depending on the magic weapon in question, and the monsters AC, in some cases a weapon you aren't proficient with, can be better than trying to punch a monster. If you have to hit a 20 AC you might was well punch your way out of it. However, if you need to hit a more moderate AC...
But i was thinking that if you can destroy artifacts, and legendary objects ( usually extremely hard thing to do), you most certainly be able to destroy a +1 longsword. Just based off DMG pg.141 regarding magical resilience, and pg . 246/247 regarding AC/HP, as a DM you could conclude that given enough force against the object would damage and or destroy it. Up to the DM of course, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.
But i was thinking that if you can destroy artifacts, and legendary objects ( usually extremely hard thing to do), you most certainly be able to destroy a +1 longsword. Just based off DMG pg.141 regarding magical resilience, and pg . 246/247 regarding AC/HP, as a DM you could conclude that given enough force against the object would damage and or destroy it. Up to the DM of course, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.
This is true, but it doesn't come up during normal play. As others have pointed out, very few spells or monster abilities are able to directly damage held or worn items, and they generally don't work on magical items at all. For example, Shatter only damages nonmagical objects that aren't being worn or carried. Disintegrate can't affect magic items, despite being a 6th level spell that can destroy any kind of nonmagical object. Likewise, a Black Pudding's Corrosive Form can't affect magic items.
The game already shies away from mechanics that damage equipment because it's tedious to track and has the potential to derail adventures (what if your armor breaks in a remote location?) This is even more true for magic items, which often become character-defining or are the main drive behind adventures or campaigns. For those reasons, the 5e designers didn't want magic items to be easily destroyed. That's why Mage's Disjunction doesn't exist any more.
In theory someone could steal your Scimitar of Speed and hit it with a hammer until it breaks, but why would they do that when they could use it themselves or sell it for a LOT of money?
How does 5e handle magic items coming into contact with harsh effects? Can they be destroyed? If so, under what conditions?
For example wilting under the effects of a dragon's breath weapon? Is it fair to destroy a player's magical items that are caught in the blast? In a gelatinous cube? A vat of acid? Should the items have a saving throw? Can they be repaired? How can they be repaired?
Just looked it up in the dmg and it said that they are at least as resilient as other items but resisted damage done to them. If this is the case, how much HP do they have and do they continue to lose these HP over successive campaigns until they break or do they 'regenerate' somehow?
5th edition doesn't really do anything specific for destruction of items like weapons and armor. There are some general suggestions made which a DM can use to fine-tune something for their own group's preferences, which can be found here.
That said, as a DM I am an advocate of having magical weapons be indestructible outside of very special circumstances, since the 5th edition game has made magical items exempt from most (if not all) of the effects written in the rules which damage or destroy objects (see the acid features of various oozes, or the rusting touch of a rust monster).
And as mundane items are concerned, I don't see anything but agitating being gained by adding rulings back into the game like prior editions had about items being destroyed even if not specifically targeted because its just more dice rolling and more book-keeping and for no outcome other than to inconvenience characters (and players).
I feel like if you put your magical armor in a pit of acid over night, the acid would eventually destroy the enchantment and the item.
However, if you fall into a pit of acid your magical items should be safe.
For most DMs I feel magical items end up destroyed becuase they are discovered to be game breaking. Other DMs just enjoy watching their players suffer.
Very much unfair to destroy a player's equipment from monster attacks, including breath weapons from Dragons. Also could turn the fight into a tpk due to the loss of items.
It should be a rare case for Magic items to end up destroyed. And the more legendary the magic item, the more rare and impossible that should be.
Exactly how and why was your armor destroyed.
A dragon burnt it from my body in a breath attack
In my mind, only god-like creature can destroy magical item, like elemental princes, demon lords....
For legendary item, I like to think that the party have to go in some magical place to get the item destroy (an elemtal node or some onther mitical place connected to the some plane).
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
As a side note, I've always loved that magic items are immune to non-magical damage. I can create some amusing situations where the players "realize" the dangers that previous Adventures failed to head.
If I wanted a party to come back to a place as a plot device but further in the adventure. Them spotting a pit of acid with magic items at the bottom is kind of a favorite.
The characters can't get the items without dying from the acid and they weight to much to be "mage handed". It creates a situation where the players know there is a puzzle and they will come back when they have a Protection from Energy spell or a "scroll of Conjure Acid Mephet" or "Protection from Energy: Acid" like that. Once I drop the "key" to the puzzle being specific enough to remind them of the acid pool, they will usually realize they need to go back. Then the plot device comes full circle... and they get the loot which was out of reach at the previously low level.
GM fiat aside, it's good for all players/GM to know the rules of the world.
In previous editions magic items have been indestructible except by magic items of equal or greater power. They seem to be a lot looser in interpretation now.
I'm with AaronOfBarbaria.
I don't miss the days of having to calculate that longsword at hardness 10 and 5hp, and having GMs roll for damage equipment takes, and bla bla bla. It ultimately just made you want to play Vow of Poverty Monk!
Most of the time, gear that is on your person is immune to the effects of spells and abilities (or at most require a saving throw). I would almost never rule that an indirect attack would damage your equipment (unless the spell directly states that it does). Now, if you are trying to sunder the weapon/armor, then that might be a different story. However, I don't know one person/creature that would be in a life and death situation that would try to break someone's weapon/armor rather than simply attacking that person (which is why I never understood the 3e sunder rules existing).
And if your DM ever tells you that they are including damaging armor because it makes it adds a more realistic feel to the game, ask them how a rogue/monk is able to realistically completely avoid the damage of a fireball that explodes in their face by being "evasive" (in fact, ask them how the fireball exists in the first place)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Sundering was incredibly powerful... assuming you didn't care about losing the gold value of that equipment.
As a magical longsword had 10 hardness and 5hp, plus +2 hardness and +10hp PER level of magical enchantment.
This mean instead of fighting against a level 12 Weapon Master Fighter with a longsword and trying to get rid of all 100 hit points...
You only need to deal 15 damage +12 per enchantment level to his sword and now you're fighting a guy who has unarmed attacks (which Fighters were trained for so you got AoO).
It was a way to "disarm" the enemy, often rendering many enemies moot.
Bows were easy meat at 5 hardness and 5 hp, so a even a low level character could clean through a group of archery rendering them without weapons.
That said I always hated the module "Shackled City". I called B.S. on our DM (he was running Adventure League style, so GM fiat was less of an issue) because there is a Giant in there with a Adamantine Greatsword and he's designed to use Sunder to destroy the party's weapons before a big fight. The Giant's Greatsword wasn't MAGICAL, so it was incapable of damaging weapons according to the rules. So, I have a personal hatred of the Sunder Rules, that said the Disarm & Trip spiked chain fighter was an absolute monster.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Most fighters I ran into only carried a primary weapon and maybe a backup weapon... maybe? Do daggers count? Money was a scarce resource and most PCs I know don't carry more then 1 magic weapon, maybe a 2nd a higher levels because of disarm). It's not cost effective. Ditto with NPCs you field against the players, every item you give an NPC is an item the PC's will have.
The backup weapon is always a joke compared to their primary weapon, unless the user is expecting to lose weapons. You can't exactly walk around with multiple greatswords.
Also if you specialize for it, Sunder was very easy. Ignoring the "need" 20 strength (18 was pretty expected of a Fighter back then of a decent level)
It was pretty easy to "win" that contest, or disarms/trips especially if you used a weapon with bonuses to it. Enlarger Person is a 2nd level spell, giving the allied Fighter +2 Str, +1 Size catagory for an overall +6 to the contested roll and +3 damage if holding a 2 handed weapon.
2 handed weapon, power attack 4 points (offsets your bonus for having a 2 handed) you now deal +8 damage.
Assuming you win the contest: Now a Str 18 fighter is dealing (assuming reach and no feat) 1d10+4(str)+2(strx0.5)+8(power attack)+1(magic). That 1d10+15 damage. 2 attacks *should* destroy the weapon. If it's Adamantine it takes 1, without as much work.
By the Gods do I NOT miss 3.5's algebra to win.
Also... he was a d**k of a GM
Also, you are correct. I did some research and "An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck" was an errated out rule, and removed from future printings. Which is why I remember reading it.
Magical Items should be near indestructible. Which makes it a great "oh ****" moment for the players if a Magical Weapon/Armor gets destroyed. like a Dire Rust Monster strong enough to eat enchanted metal, or whatever.
If you are stuck buying your magic weapons, then yeah, it would be hard to have backups. But if you find magic weapons, its possible to have a backup, even if it isn't one you necessarily use all the time.
Depending on the magic weapon in question, and the monsters AC, in some cases a weapon you aren't proficient with, can be better than trying to punch a monster. If you have to hit a 20 AC you might was well punch your way out of it. However, if you need to hit a more moderate AC...
Sorry for the resurrection of this thread.
But i was thinking that if you can destroy artifacts, and legendary objects ( usually extremely hard thing to do), you most certainly be able to destroy a +1 longsword. Just based off DMG pg.141 regarding magical resilience, and pg . 246/247 regarding AC/HP, as a DM you could conclude that given enough force against the object would damage and or destroy it. Up to the DM of course, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.
This is true, but it doesn't come up during normal play. As others have pointed out, very few spells or monster abilities are able to directly damage held or worn items, and they generally don't work on magical items at all. For example, Shatter only damages nonmagical objects that aren't being worn or carried. Disintegrate can't affect magic items, despite being a 6th level spell that can destroy any kind of nonmagical object. Likewise, a Black Pudding's Corrosive Form can't affect magic items.
The game already shies away from mechanics that damage equipment because it's tedious to track and has the potential to derail adventures (what if your armor breaks in a remote location?) This is even more true for magic items, which often become character-defining or are the main drive behind adventures or campaigns. For those reasons, the 5e designers didn't want magic items to be easily destroyed. That's why Mage's Disjunction doesn't exist any more.
In theory someone could steal your Scimitar of Speed and hit it with a hammer until it breaks, but why would they do that when they could use it themselves or sell it for a LOT of money?