so a character in my group wants to make his own plate armor. I'm a bit confused about the rules concerning crafting such items though.
According to Xanathar's guide;
[...]a character needs raw materials worth half of the item’s selling cost. To determine how many workweeks it takes to create an item, divide its gold piece cost by 50.
For a plate armor, costing 1500 gp that means you need 750 gp of materials and it takes 1500/50=30 workweeks of solo work.
However, the adamantine armor is an uncommon magic item. Though it's not truly "enchanting" I'd figure the same rules would apply that they would to a magic item.
Again from Xanathar's guide:
To start with, a character needs a formula for a magic item in order to create it. [...] An item invariably requires an exotic material to complete it. [...]
Magic Item Ingredients
Item Rarity
CR Range
Common
1–3
Uncommon
4–8
Magic Item Crafting Time and Cost
Item Rarity
Workweeks*
Cost*
Common
1
50 gp
Uncommon
2
200 gp
This means, that should the character know how to forge an adamantine armor from scratch, and has the magic components, it would take 2 weeks and 200 gp of extra materials.
Recently the characters found a meteorite containing enough adamantine ore to make plate armor in a dungeon, where they also fought a gorgon. Though it's not truly part of the creature, this made more sense storywise.
The character does not necessarily have the "formula", but he's proficient with smith's tools, so that should not be a problem I'm guessing.
What my issue is, is this; how is it that making a magical armor is so much easier than non-magical armor? Or do I need to take the crafting of the armor itself into account too and add them together? For a total of 750gp+200gp of materials and 32 workweeks?
In the case of magic weapons and armor (particularity plate because of how powerful and therefore expensive it is), I add the magic item rarety price to the base item's price.
Otherwise you wind up with situations like these where a magical set of plate costs 1000-1400 GP less than a non-magic set.
HI, so a couple things about the way I've handled making items. I've always added the base and the magical together. It's not that just because something is magical you don't also have to make the base component so, yes, I'd add the 750+200 and 32 workweeks. (I like Dx's idea too, that makes sense) Also depending on how much you want to make the actual forging a part of play there are other things you can add in (Like looking for a teacher or mentor). From a real life perspective of working metals (which I do) They all have very different properties and work in drastically different ways so personally I would say that being proficient with smith tools does not grant you the knowledge to work every metal out there. I'd say it gives you a base of knowledge for common materials, which adamantine really isn't so much. That's where finding a teacher or mentor could come into play. But that's up to you on how much you want to RP the whole process.
Just to give an example. If you know how to cast a silver ring, you could use the same process but with different temperatures and probably be successful casting a gold ring.
If you tried the same process to cast a platinum ring it would utterly fail.
Adamantine is not a magical metal and armor made of adamantine does not automatically become magical. That being said, there is a magical set of adamainte armor called Adamantine Armor.
@TexasDevin; yeah I'm using that as a base to work with since there's no mentioning of special materials in the crafting rules. The part about Adamantine Weapons in Xanathar's Guide mentions that it increases the price by 500 gp. There's no magic item called "Adamantine Weapon" so that follows the regular crafting rules. Meaning that it would take 250 gp worth of adamantine and 10 weeks longer than a regular item of its kind.
However, there's no mention of adamantine armorsmithing, meaning that the most sensible RAW there is, is using the Adamantine Armor as a base. However, that would mean that it's the same cost all around for a chainmail, splint or plate which seems odd to me...
@BTI_Brian + DxJxC; thanks for your insight. I figured that there's big enough difference in metals used that this could be a factor. It would make sense that the character hasn't worked with the materials before, and that the whole process would take longer. It simply didn't make sense to me that using a harder, denser metal would make the crafting time shorter. I've been thinking it over, I think that adding the "base item value" as a separate crafting makes sense. It then comes down to how to add them together;
Crafting Plate armor (basic crafting rules) base value = 1500 gp, materials = 750 gp, time = 1500/50=30 workweeks (or would it be 750 gp/50=15 workweeks?)
Crafting adamantine plate armor (basic crafting rules) base value = 1500 gp (plate) + 400 gp (from the "selling a magic item" table)= 1900 gp, materials = 950 gp, time = 1900/50=38 workweeks (or 950/50=19 workweeks)
Crafting adamantine plate armor (base crafting + magic item crafting rules) base value = 1500 gp, materials = 750 gp, time = 1500/50=30 workweeks (or would it be 750 gp/50=15 workweeks?) + Uncommon item crafting cost = 200gp, time = 2 workweeks = Cost materials 950 gp, time = 30+2=32 workweeks (or 15+2=17 workweeks)
The process of working with adamantine is a closely guarded secret. It may involve working with several types of metals at different temperatures and different ratio mixtures.
My question is: Is it a given fact that adamantine and mitral are or are not magical in and of themself? Where is this determination made?
Adamantine is nonmagical, to the best of my knowledge, as you can craft weapons out of adamantine and they will not be treated as magical. Adamantine armor as listed in the DM Guide is armor that is made of, or at least incorporates some, adamantine and is further reinforced by magic (thus how it negates all critical hits, even those from magical sources). So you could hypothetically create a suit of adamantine armor that is nonmagical, but it wouldn't negate critical hits like the magic item does. You'd be sinking your money by doing so, but it is possible to do, and crafting the armor might even be part of the process of making the magical version later on.
as a dm i rule that an antimagic field does not effect the effects of adamantium or mithral armor its the metal its self that is speical its magical just to increase its rarity or the skill needed to craft it. its how i rule it but then again thats my option
My question is: Is it a given fact that adamantine and mitral are or are not magical in and of themself? Where is this determination made?
Jim
There is rarely a rule that defines something as not being something else. The absence of a rule defining something as somethng else implies that it is not something else.
My question is: Is it a given fact that adamantine and mitral are or are not magical in and of themself? Where is this determination made?
Jim
There is rarely a rule that defines something as not being something else. The absence of a rule defining something as somethng else implies that it is not something else.
Personally I would think that as there is no official product that claims one way or the other [yet, and to my knowledge], that in the absence of a true definition of whether these specific instances of materials are magical or not, a definition of what constitutes magical materials in general, or exceptions to any such definitions then no such implication can be made empirically. However, there is plenty of examples of JC telling the GMs of 5e that the ruleset is designed to be run by "rulings and not rules" specifically, and so it's more likely that the absence of any such rules on this question means the implication is that: each GM should make their own calling on this based on their own feelings and what they want to do with their world.
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Hey guys,
so a character in my group wants to make his own plate armor. I'm a bit confused about the rules concerning crafting such items though.
According to Xanathar's guide;
For a plate armor, costing 1500 gp that means you need 750 gp of materials and it takes 1500/50=30 workweeks of solo work.
However, the adamantine armor is an uncommon magic item. Though it's not truly "enchanting" I'd figure the same rules would apply that they would to a magic item.
Again from Xanathar's guide:
This means, that should the character know how to forge an adamantine armor from scratch, and has the magic components, it would take 2 weeks and 200 gp of extra materials.
Recently the characters found a meteorite containing enough adamantine ore to make plate armor in a dungeon, where they also fought a gorgon. Though it's not truly part of the creature, this made more sense storywise.
The character does not necessarily have the "formula", but he's proficient with smith's tools, so that should not be a problem I'm guessing.
What my issue is, is this; how is it that making a magical armor is so much easier than non-magical armor? Or do I need to take the crafting of the armor itself into account too and add them together? For a total of 750gp+200gp of materials and 32 workweeks?
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
In the case of magic weapons and armor (particularity plate because of how powerful and therefore expensive it is), I add the magic item rarety price to the base item's price.
Otherwise you wind up with situations like these where a magical set of plate costs 1000-1400 GP less than a non-magic set.
HI, so a couple things about the way I've handled making items. I've always added the base and the magical together. It's not that just because something is magical you don't also have to make the base component so, yes, I'd add the 750+200 and 32 workweeks. (I like Dx's idea too, that makes sense) Also depending on how much you want to make the actual forging a part of play there are other things you can add in (Like looking for a teacher or mentor). From a real life perspective of working metals (which I do) They all have very different properties and work in drastically different ways so personally I would say that being proficient with smith tools does not grant you the knowledge to work every metal out there. I'd say it gives you a base of knowledge for common materials, which adamantine really isn't so much. That's where finding a teacher or mentor could come into play. But that's up to you on how much you want to RP the whole process.
Just to give an example. If you know how to cast a silver ring, you could use the same process but with different temperatures and probably be successful casting a gold ring.
If you tried the same process to cast a platinum ring it would utterly fail.
That's what happens when you wear a helmet your whole life!
My house rules
Adamantine is not a magical metal and armor made of adamantine does not automatically become magical. That being said, there is a magical set of adamainte armor called Adamantine Armor.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
@TexasDevin; yeah I'm using that as a base to work with since there's no mentioning of special materials in the crafting rules. The part about Adamantine Weapons in Xanathar's Guide mentions that it increases the price by 500 gp. There's no magic item called "Adamantine Weapon" so that follows the regular crafting rules. Meaning that it would take 250 gp worth of adamantine and 10 weeks longer than a regular item of its kind.
However, there's no mention of adamantine armorsmithing, meaning that the most sensible RAW there is, is using the Adamantine Armor as a base. However, that would mean that it's the same cost all around for a chainmail, splint or plate which seems odd to me...
@BTI_Brian + DxJxC; thanks for your insight. I figured that there's big enough difference in metals used that this could be a factor. It would make sense that the character hasn't worked with the materials before, and that the whole process would take longer. It simply didn't make sense to me that using a harder, denser metal would make the crafting time shorter. I've been thinking it over, I think that adding the "base item value" as a separate crafting makes sense. It then comes down to how to add them together;
Crafting Plate armor (basic crafting rules)
base value = 1500 gp, materials = 750 gp, time = 1500/50=30 workweeks (or would it be 750 gp/50=15 workweeks?)
Crafting adamantine plate armor (basic crafting rules)
base value = 1500 gp (plate) + 400 gp (from the "selling a magic item" table)= 1900 gp, materials = 950 gp, time = 1900/50=38 workweeks (or 950/50=19 workweeks)
Crafting adamantine plate armor (base crafting + magic item crafting rules)
base value = 1500 gp, materials = 750 gp, time = 1500/50=30 workweeks (or would it be 750 gp/50=15 workweeks?)
+
Uncommon item crafting cost = 200gp, time = 2 workweeks
=
Cost materials 950 gp, time = 30+2=32 workweeks (or 15+2=17 workweeks)
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
The process of working with adamantine is a closely guarded secret. It may involve working with several types of metals at different temperatures and different ratio mixtures.
My question is: Is it a given fact that adamantine and mitral are or are not magical in and of themself? Where is this determination made?
Jim
Adamantine is nonmagical, to the best of my knowledge, as you can craft weapons out of adamantine and they will not be treated as magical. Adamantine armor as listed in the DM Guide is armor that is made of, or at least incorporates some, adamantine and is further reinforced by magic (thus how it negates all critical hits, even those from magical sources). So you could hypothetically create a suit of adamantine armor that is nonmagical, but it wouldn't negate critical hits like the magic item does. You'd be sinking your money by doing so, but it is possible to do, and crafting the armor might even be part of the process of making the magical version later on.
as a dm i rule that an antimagic field does not effect the effects of adamantium or mithral armor its the metal its self that is speical its magical just to increase its rarity or the skill needed to craft it. its how i rule it but then again thats my option
There is rarely a rule that defines something as not being something else. The absence of a rule defining something as somethng else implies that it is not something else.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Personally I would think that as there is no official product that claims one way or the other [yet, and to my knowledge], that in the absence of a true definition of whether these specific instances of materials are magical or not, a definition of what constitutes magical materials in general, or exceptions to any such definitions then no such implication can be made empirically.
However, there is plenty of examples of JC telling the GMs of 5e that the ruleset is designed to be run by "rulings and not rules" specifically, and so it's more likely that the absence of any such rules on this question means the implication is that: each GM should make their own calling on this based on their own feelings and what they want to do with their world.