if 2 spells/abilities do a similar task which one takes precedence, for instance if i cast finger of death and and kill a creature and an enemy (druid of spores) reanimates the but does not make it an undead, at the start of my next turn does it become a zombie at the start of my next turn or do i have to wait to gain control of it till the druid ability ends?
Nope, sorry. Being a Zombie, it is not aHumanoid, and therefore doesn’t become under your control. You can’t use this to contro, Death Thrants or Mind Flayers, so no zombie, sorry.
but the circle of spores does not change the fact that it is still a corps and dead it even makes special note of that which is why I ask my Question.
Fungal Infestation does, in fact, make it into a zombie. It specifically states that the creature uses the zombie stat block, with the exceptions that it starts with 1 hp, and that it remains animate for 1 hour, then collapses and dies.
I think there's also something about this in the PHB where the spell of higher level will take precedence when competing.
PHB 205
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. lnstead, the most potent effect-such as the highest bonus-from those castings applies while their durations overlap. For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
I'm leaning on the "Instead the most potent effect" part of this quote.
It comes down to how the Druid reanimated the corpse.
If they tried to use Fungal Infestation it will not have any effect. "If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn." Fungal Infestation specifically requires that Druid slay the humanoid with Halo of Spores to be able to make it a zombie.
If the Druid used Animate Dead then the zombie would be under their control for the duration of that spell, 24 hours, after which time it would be under your control as per Finger of Death. It is a possible alternate interpretation that the zombie would be under your control, as per Finger of Death, but the Druid would be able to issue it a command once per turn as a bonus action as per Animate Dead for the duration of that spell. This Ould give the effect of control over the zombie swaying back and forth.
Animate Dead is a 3rd level spell, Finder of Death is 7th. So it is also possible that it is not even a question unless the Druid used at least a 7th level spell slot to cast Animate Dead. Anything less than that and Finger of Death as the most potent effect will apply.
I think there's also something about this in the PHB where the spell of higher level will take precedence when competing.
PHB 205
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. lnstead, the most potent effect-such as the highest bonus-from those castings applies while their durations overlap. For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
I'm leaning on the "Instead the most potent effect" part of this quote.
This rule is specifically referring to 2 or more of the exact same spell or ability.
It comes down to how the Druid reanimated the corpse.
If they tried to use Fungal Infestation it will not have any effect. "If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn." Fungal Infestation specifically requires that Druid slay the humanoid with Halo of Spores to be able to make it a zombie.
It comes down to how the Druid reanimated the corpse.
If they tried to use Fungal Infestation it will not have any effect. "If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn." Fungal Infestation specifically requires that Druid slay the humanoid with Halo of Spores to be able to make it a zombie.
At 6th level, your spores gain the ability to infest a humanoid corpse and animate it. If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn."
The Druid in question did not slay the creature with Halo of Spores, the Finger of Death spell slew it. There for the Druid does not get a zombie.
You are looking at the Unearthed Arcana. We are talking about the GGtR Circle of Spores, the official one. Read up on that one, and come back with a correct ruling.
It comes down to how the Druid reanimated the corpse.
If they tried to use Fungal Infestation it will not have any effect. "If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn." Fungal Infestation specifically requires that Druid slay the humanoid with Halo of Spores to be able to make it a zombie.
At 6th level, your spores gain the ability to infest a humanoid corpse and animate it. If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn."
The Druid in question did not slay the creature with Halo of Spores, the Finger of Death spell slew it. There for the Druid does not get a zombie.
That is the unearthed arcana one. I was referring to the official version that was released in GGtR (I assume OP is too). It looks like most of those abilities have been changed in the official version.
*I posted a link to the DDB page twice for a reason. Also the ability in question has been refered to several times and partially quoted by others.
Having read the Ravnica text. My ruling is still that the Finger of Death creates a zombie when Fungal Infestation expires. The Finger of Death magic is already affecting the corpse, and nothing in the description of either spell says that it stops just because another spell is affecting the body in-between it dying and it rising.
Finger of Death second effect is not "looking" for anything. It is a process already taking place in the corpse. It is just hijacked by the faster acting spores. So Druid gets temporary control of the zombie. If A then B. A humanoid killed by the spell rises as a zombie. The spell has a duration of instantaneous, it is not two steps of duration separated by a pause, it is one duration of instantaneous with two effects that are separated in time. The Fungal Infestation effect is manifesting in that time between the manifestation of the two Finger of Death effects, but nothing in either spell says it cancels the effect.
NB The DDB link you posted just goes to the basic Druid info when I click it. The Circle of Spores is behind a paywall on DDB. Luckily I am in a bookstore with a copy of GGtR on the shelf.
Well, by that logic, it doesn’t say it continues if it is hijacked, so.....
It is looking for something. It is looking for a dead humanoid on its next turn. On its next turn, is it a humanoid? No. It is not. There is no magic ‘inbetween’ or anything. No humanoid on the next turn? No zombie for mr.OP.
There is no loophole. You kill humanoid. Next turn. Is there a humanoid? No. Do you get a zombie? No. It specifically states ‘A humanoid killed by this spell rises at the start of your next turn as a zombie that is permanently under your command, following your verbal orders to the best of its ability.’. There is no humanoid. Therefore, no zombie. As such, no loophole, as it is clear that since there is no humanoid, there is no zombie. Sucks to be you.
anyone else see a Footer note at the end? That shouldn’t be there.
See I focus on the verbs, not the nouns. Finger of Death: Killed, rises. Fungal Infestation: Dies, animate. For me the only point of possible confusion is that Fungal Infestation says "dies" again when the spell duration expires. So it is possible to consider that ultimately it was not Finger of Death that killed it, so no zombie from FoD. But that would have to mean that the Fungal Infestation "zombie" is actually alive for the duration of that spell. If the Fungal Infestation zombie is dead for the duration of that spell then it was killed by FoD and by the terms of that spell will rise as a zombie under the control of that caster.
Animate: V: To bring to life, to move or stir to action Adj: alive or having life, so maybe the "zombie" created by Fungal Infestation is not dead, there for the creature was not ultimately killed by FoD, so it is not eligible to rise as a zombie from that spell. It cannot be undead in that case, even if it uses the zombie stat block. Otherwise it was killed by FoD and must there for rise as a zombie per that spell. It is not a question of there being a humanoid. It is a question of whether there is a dead or a living creature. If the creature animated by Fungal Infestation is a zombie, that is undead then it is subject to turning by a Cleric. The Monster Manual does refer to some undead, including both zombies and vampires as "walking corpses" and the entry on zombie states that the magic that creates a zombie can take some time to run its course. So we are back to it being an unresolved question.
Moot in my campaign as it is not set in Ravnica, so no Circle of Spores Druids, although they are hella cool.
And I do see a pair of footer tags at the bottom of your post.
Nope, didn’t pop up, that was weird. And, when you put it that way, it seems correct, ish. It’s now more or less Dm’s Interpretation. But I focus on how it was written, not the verbs. So in my mind, he doesn’t get the zombie. But, let’s say you’re right. I have no idea what the solution is to that. Guess... is it sentient or no? I can’t really call a sentient breathing, eating loving Zombie dead, but do they do that? Therefore, it is all up to how you intepret the Zombie being. Sentient? Alive, but an Undead creature. Dead? Dead, but Undead creature. Either way, both are undead, just one is alive.
im not saying you are correct, I’m saying you are correct in a .... loose interpretation. Ish.
if 2 spells/abilities do a similar task which one takes precedence, for instance if i cast finger of death and and kill a creature and an enemy (druid of spores) reanimates the but does not make it an undead, at the start of my next turn does it become a zombie at the start of my next turn or do i have to wait to gain control of it till the druid ability ends?
Up to DM, but I think the zombie was sadly stolen. Finger of death's second effect is looking for a dead humanoid, but there isn't one anymore.
but the circle of spores does not change the fact that it is still a corps and dead it even makes special note of that which is why I ask my Question.
Nope, sorry. Being a Zombie, it is not aHumanoid, and therefore doesn’t become under your control. You can’t use this to contro, Death Thrants or Mind Flayers, so no zombie, sorry.
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but the circle of spores does not change the fact that it is still a corps and dead it even makes special note of that which is why I ask my Question.
No. It says you need a Dead Humanoid, not a corpse. A Zombie is an Undead. Therefore, no friendly zombie helper for you.
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Fungal Infestation does, in fact, make it into a zombie. It specifically states that the creature uses the zombie stat block, with the exceptions that it starts with 1 hp, and that it remains animate for 1 hour, then collapses and dies.
I think there's also something about this in the PHB where the spell of higher level will take precedence when competing.
I'm leaning on the "Instead the most potent effect" part of this quote.
It comes down to how the Druid reanimated the corpse.
If they tried to use Fungal Infestation it will not have any effect. "If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn." Fungal Infestation specifically requires that Druid slay the humanoid with Halo of Spores to be able to make it a zombie.
If the Druid used Animate Dead then the zombie would be under their control for the duration of that spell, 24 hours, after which time it would be under your control as per Finger of Death. It is a possible alternate interpretation that the zombie would be under your control, as per Finger of Death, but the Druid would be able to issue it a command once per turn as a bonus action as per Animate Dead for the duration of that spell. This Ould give the effect of control over the zombie swaying back and forth.
Animate Dead is a 3rd level spell, Finder of Death is 7th. So it is also possible that it is not even a question unless the Druid used at least a 7th level spell slot to cast Animate Dead. Anything less than that and Finger of Death as the most potent effect will apply.
This rule is specifically referring to 2 or more of the exact same spell or ability.
That is not at all what Fungal Infestation says: https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/druid#CircleofSpores
The order of events as I understand them are as follows:
I think OP could still have zombie minion only if the spore zombie dies again before OP's turn (between step 2 and 3).
That seems correct, yes.
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That is exactly what Fungal Infestations says: https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA-3Subclasses0108.pdf.
"Fungal Infestation
At 6th level, your spores gain the ability to infest a humanoid corpse and animate it. If you slay a humanoid with your Halo of Spores damage, the creature rises as a zombie at the end of your turn."
The Druid in question did not slay the creature with Halo of Spores, the Finger of Death spell slew it. There for the Druid does not get a zombie.
You are looking at the Unearthed Arcana. We are talking about the GGtR Circle of Spores, the official one. Read up on that one, and come back with a correct ruling.
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That is the unearthed arcana one. I was referring to the official version that was released in GGtR (I assume OP is too). It looks like most of those abilities have been changed in the official version.
*I posted a link to the DDB page twice for a reason. Also the ability in question has been refered to several times and partially quoted by others.
Having read the Ravnica text. My ruling is still that the Finger of Death creates a zombie when Fungal Infestation expires. The Finger of Death magic is already affecting the corpse, and nothing in the description of either spell says that it stops just because another spell is affecting the body in-between it dying and it rising.
Finger of Death second effect is not "looking" for anything. It is a process already taking place in the corpse. It is just hijacked by the faster acting spores. So Druid gets temporary control of the zombie. If A then B. A humanoid killed by the spell rises as a zombie. The spell has a duration of instantaneous, it is not two steps of duration separated by a pause, it is one duration of instantaneous with two effects that are separated in time. The Fungal Infestation effect is manifesting in that time between the manifestation of the two Finger of Death effects, but nothing in either spell says it cancels the effect.
NB The DDB link you posted just goes to the basic Druid info when I click it. The Circle of Spores is behind a paywall on DDB. Luckily I am in a bookstore with a copy of GGtR on the shelf.
Well, by that logic, it doesn’t say it continues if it is hijacked, so.....
It is looking for something. It is looking for a dead humanoid on its next turn. On its next turn, is it a humanoid? No. It is not. There is no magic ‘inbetween’ or anything. No humanoid on the next turn? No zombie for mr.OP.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. The designers should have closed the loophole.
Correct, we should, but just one last laugh.
There is no loophole. You kill humanoid. Next turn. Is there a humanoid? No. Do you get a zombie? No. It specifically states ‘A humanoid killed by this spell rises at the start of your next turn as a zombie that is permanently under your command, following your verbal orders to the best of its ability.’. There is no humanoid. Therefore, no zombie. As such, no loophole, as it is clear that since there is no humanoid, there is no zombie. Sucks to be you.
anyone else see a Footer note at the end? That shouldn’t be there.
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Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
See I focus on the verbs, not the nouns. Finger of Death: Killed, rises. Fungal Infestation: Dies, animate. For me the only point of possible confusion is that Fungal Infestation says "dies" again when the spell duration expires. So it is possible to consider that ultimately it was not Finger of Death that killed it, so no zombie from FoD. But that would have to mean that the Fungal Infestation "zombie" is actually alive for the duration of that spell. If the Fungal Infestation zombie is dead for the duration of that spell then it was killed by FoD and by the terms of that spell will rise as a zombie under the control of that caster.
Animate: V: To bring to life, to move or stir to action Adj: alive or having life, so maybe the "zombie" created by Fungal Infestation is not dead, there for the creature was not ultimately killed by FoD, so it is not eligible to rise as a zombie from that spell. It cannot be undead in that case, even if it uses the zombie stat block. Otherwise it was killed by FoD and must there for rise as a zombie per that spell. It is not a question of there being a humanoid. It is a question of whether there is a dead or a living creature. If the creature animated by Fungal Infestation is a zombie, that is undead then it is subject to turning by a Cleric. The Monster Manual does refer to some undead, including both zombies and vampires as "walking corpses" and the entry on zombie states that the magic that creates a zombie can take some time to run its course. So we are back to it being an unresolved question.
Moot in my campaign as it is not set in Ravnica, so no Circle of Spores Druids, although they are hella cool.
And I do see a pair of footer tags at the bottom of your post.
Testing testing one two 3Nope, didn’t pop up, that was weird. And, when you put it that way, it seems correct, ish. It’s now more or less Dm’s Interpretation. But I focus on how it was written, not the verbs. So in my mind, he doesn’t get the zombie. But, let’s say you’re right. I have no idea what the solution is to that. Guess... is it sentient or no? I can’t really call a sentient breathing, eating loving Zombie dead, but do they do that? Therefore, it is all up to how you intepret the Zombie being. Sentient? Alive, but an Undead creature. Dead? Dead, but Undead creature. Either way, both are undead, just one is alive.
im not saying you are correct, I’m saying you are correct in a .... loose interpretation. Ish.
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