So after not having played since AD&D 2nd ed, myself and my friends started out in the Lost Mines of Phandelver last night and my level 1 High Elf Wizard (who shall become a Bladesinger at level 2) was lucky enough to end up with a Dex of 19 and Int of 18 (rolled a pair of 17's) so that's +4 to both right?
I'm using my Shortsword as part of the Cantrip Green Flame Blade am I correct in the following:
Melee attack gets +6 to hit and damage and the flame that jumps from the blade to the other target does 6 dmg?
One of my attacks rolled a 6 on my D6 for dmg and it seemed really OP that I did 18 dmg (12 to one target and 6 to the other).
Also, giving that I'm +4 from both Dex and Int and have Mage Armour my DM nearly fainted when I said my AC would be 21 during my Bladesong ...he's considering house ruling it to one use per short rest.
You do not add your proficiency bonus to damage, so it should be +6 to hit and +4 to damage.
Also until you reach 5th level or higher the cantrip doesn't add the extra 1d8 (not 1d6), for now it just does your spellcasting ability modifier (which is +4).
So your attack should of done 1d6 (shortsword) + DEX mod. (+4) + spellcasting ability modifier (+4)... keep in mind the green flame can only leap from the target to another creature within 5 feet of the target you hit... if no creature is there it doesn't leap or have any effect.
This is meant to be fun, it is not really op, if the situation arises it can be quite useful but this will not always be the case.
As for the high AC, wizards still have low hp and this is also meant for you to have fun by being able to stand in combat longer. You should rarely, if ever, get hit. Keep in mind that crits will hit you no matter how high your AC is, and you are still vulnerable to area of effect spells that require a saving throw and ignore AC.
If I were you I would mention that since this material was published it is considered to be balanced and fair according to the designers. Try to convince your DM that he should not limit what your character can do from being a bladesinger. It would be like limiting a druid to only 1 wildshape instead of 2, or a barbarian to only 1 rage instead of 2. And if you think the high AC is too op, keep in mind that at any time you can also cast Shield (providing you took that spell) and raise your AC to 26 until your next turn. That's a really good defensive character.
However it works out, I hope you have fun playing a bladesinger.
You sure thumped the dudes. The problem is that at level 1, it doesn't take much to swing things heavily one way or the other. I think you will find that in time, these spells will pretty quickly settle into the right place in terms of damage and utility.
Also, giving that I'm +4 from both Dex and Int and have Mage Armour my DM nearly fainted when I said my AC would be 21 during my Bladesong ...he's considering house ruling it to one use per short rest.
Bladesong is good, but it has some limitations. It needs a bonus action to start (so if you are surprised then you don't get its bonuses). You can't use a bow or crossbow - generally just melee weapons. And if you are hit, you are a mage, so you have all the hit points of a wet tissue. Mage armour costs you a slot. At 1st level, you don't have too many of those.
You only get it twice per short rest, so one way of dealing with it is to restrict short rests (which a GM should be doing anyway).
You also have exceptional stats. Two 16s is not just lucky, it is around .17%. The reason point buy limits scores to 15 is sto stop 1st level characters being extremely powerful.
You only get it twice per short rest, so one way of dealing with it is to restrict short rests (which a GM should be doing anyway).
I don't see how a DM could regularly restrict short rests enough to make a dent in Bladesong usage. Even just 1 short rest that's already 4 bladesong uses, which is plenty to get through an adventuring day. It's pretty tough to fill out 5+ combat encounters every single day as is. And I consider anything less than 2 short rests a day sadistic unless your campaign takes place in an extremely hostile environment. Adventurers want to have lunch and dinner just like everyone else.
But if the DM really needs to nerf something about the character, it should be the ability scores. It's pretty silly to insist Bladesong is overpowered but a 1st level wizard starting with +4 to both DEX and INT is somehow fine.
Thanks for the responses and the help guys - turns out we all dropped the ball by adding our Proficiency bonus to our damage, but that'll be corrected for our next session.
As for my characters stats, I had strongly considered taking the standard array as I was terrified that I wanted to play a Elf Bladesinger and with my luck (my friends call me 'Lucky' Gus) and would roll a 12 or something as my highest stat. The DM convinced me to roll the 4D6 and even said I'll let you roll 7 results and you can pick the highest 6. Even then I was apprehensive, but rolled away and got a 13, 17, 14, 11, 17 and 11 - and with that I said I'll just take them as I felt rolling a 7th at that point would have been exploiting his generosity.
Stats end up as: Str 11, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 13 and Cha 11.
I also made the point myself of adding that it's all well and good when you dealing with the low-level enemies as part of the starter campaign - we'll see how useful or OP Green Flame Blade is when you're facing far more powerful enemies, which like you say, if they get through the seemingly high AC for a wizard it may only take one hit.
Hell, I got hit as part of an ambush and lost 6 of my 8 hit points.
Regardless, it's fun to be playing again - like I said, not play for around 25 years.
There are a number of features in 5e that may feel OP when you first run into them, especially if you are coming from earlier editions of the game. In my experience, they aren't. They tend to be cool low probability events that tend to define the character a bit or temporary situations that go away after a level or two.
For example ...
- a rogue getting a sneak attack critical hit or a paladin using a smite on a critical hit. Both of these can generate a seemingly huge amount of damage from a single attack. At earlier levels, such a lucky roll might take down the bad guy in a single hit which can leave the DM or the players saying "Wow, that is OP". It isn't. These abilities are pretty well balanced with the abilities of both the opponents (NPCs and monsters of a reasonable challenge level) and with the abilities of other characters. Looking at level 1-16 play, this version of D&D is probably the most "balanced" I've ever played.
- a moon druid gains the ability to shape change into CR1 creatures at level 2. Some of these are very good and can be better than an equivalent level fighter without certain feats. However, by level 4-5, the wild shape isn't that much better or about equal to a fighter and as you go to higher level the moon druid's shapes tend to have less AC and hit points than a fighter so in the end it balances out. At level 2 it probably is a bit powerful, but level 2 doesn't last long and higher level moon druids are pretty well balanced (though their level 20 ability, if you actually play a moon druid exclusively to level 20 is one of the better ones).
In addition, there is a significant increase in character capabilities at 5th level. Martial characters will get a second attack for the most part, proficiency goes up and casters get access to 3rd level spells. All of these can make a 5th level character feel much more powerful than a 4th level character. It isn't that bad but there are power increases in the characters typically at 5th, 11th and 17th level which are the boundaries for each tier of play.
However, in this version of the game, it is quite possible to have fun adventures that extend all the way to level 20 though you end up fighting some very challenging monsters by the end.
Thanks for the responses and the help guys - turns out we all dropped the ball by adding our Proficiency bonus to our damage, but that'll be corrected for our next session.
Not to sound rude but are you using the dndbeyond character builder/sheet? It calculates everything for you. Modifiers, etc
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So after not having played since AD&D 2nd ed, myself and my friends started out in the Lost Mines of Phandelver last night and my level 1 High Elf Wizard (who shall become a Bladesinger at level 2) was lucky enough to end up with a Dex of 19 and Int of 18 (rolled a pair of 17's) so that's +4 to both right?
I'm using my Shortsword as part of the Cantrip Green Flame Blade am I correct in the following:
Melee attack gets +6 to hit and damage and the flame that jumps from the blade to the other target does 6 dmg?
One of my attacks rolled a 6 on my D6 for dmg and it seemed really OP that I did 18 dmg (12 to one target and 6 to the other).
Also, giving that I'm +4 from both Dex and Int and have Mage Armour my DM nearly fainted when I said my AC would be 21 during my Bladesong ...he's considering house ruling it to one use per short rest.
You do not add your proficiency bonus to damage, so it should be +6 to hit and +4 to damage.
Also until you reach 5th level or higher the cantrip doesn't add the extra 1d8 (not 1d6), for now it just does your spellcasting ability modifier (which is +4).
So your attack should of done 1d6 (shortsword) + DEX mod. (+4) + spellcasting ability modifier (+4)... keep in mind the green flame can only leap from the target to another creature within 5 feet of the target you hit... if no creature is there it doesn't leap or have any effect.
This is meant to be fun, it is not really op, if the situation arises it can be quite useful but this will not always be the case.
As for the high AC, wizards still have low hp and this is also meant for you to have fun by being able to stand in combat longer. You should rarely, if ever, get hit. Keep in mind that crits will hit you no matter how high your AC is, and you are still vulnerable to area of effect spells that require a saving throw and ignore AC.
If I were you I would mention that since this material was published it is considered to be balanced and fair according to the designers. Try to convince your DM that he should not limit what your character can do from being a bladesinger. It would be like limiting a druid to only 1 wildshape instead of 2, or a barbarian to only 1 rage instead of 2. And if you think the high AC is too op, keep in mind that at any time you can also cast Shield (providing you took that spell) and raise your AC to 26 until your next turn. That's a really good defensive character.
However it works out, I hope you have fun playing a bladesinger.
You sure thumped the dudes. The problem is that at level 1, it doesn't take much to swing things heavily one way or the other. I think you will find that in time, these spells will pretty quickly settle into the right place in terms of damage and utility.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yeah, no. +6 to hit, +4 (DEX) weapon damage, and 4 (INT) damage to second target.
21 AC isn't that bad. A level 1 cleric (shield of faith) or barbarian (with +4 DEX and CON) can manage 20 easy, and have (potentially) more HP.
And if the DM is concerned about AC, they can use actions that require saves instead. I bet your wizard can't make a STR save to save its life.
Bladesong is good, but it has some limitations. It needs a bonus action to start (so if you are surprised then you don't get its bonuses). You can't use a bow or crossbow - generally just melee weapons. And if you are hit, you are a mage, so you have all the hit points of a wet tissue. Mage armour costs you a slot. At 1st level, you don't have too many of those.
You only get it twice per short rest, so one way of dealing with it is to restrict short rests (which a GM should be doing anyway).
You also have exceptional stats. Two 16s is not just lucky, it is around .17%. The reason point buy limits scores to 15 is sto stop 1st level characters being extremely powerful.
I don't see how a DM could regularly restrict short rests enough to make a dent in Bladesong usage. Even just 1 short rest that's already 4 bladesong uses, which is plenty to get through an adventuring day. It's pretty tough to fill out 5+ combat encounters every single day as is. And I consider anything less than 2 short rests a day sadistic unless your campaign takes place in an extremely hostile environment. Adventurers want to have lunch and dinner just like everyone else.
But if the DM really needs to nerf something about the character, it should be the ability scores. It's pretty silly to insist Bladesong is overpowered but a 1st level wizard starting with +4 to both DEX and INT is somehow fine.
Thanks for the responses and the help guys - turns out we all dropped the ball by adding our Proficiency bonus to our damage, but that'll be corrected for our next session.
As for my characters stats, I had strongly considered taking the standard array as I was terrified that I wanted to play a Elf Bladesinger and with my luck (my friends call me 'Lucky' Gus) and would roll a 12 or something as my highest stat. The DM convinced me to roll the 4D6 and even said I'll let you roll 7 results and you can pick the highest 6. Even then I was apprehensive, but rolled away and got a 13, 17, 14, 11, 17 and 11 - and with that I said I'll just take them as I felt rolling a 7th at that point would have been exploiting his generosity.
Stats end up as: Str 11, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 13 and Cha 11.
I also made the point myself of adding that it's all well and good when you dealing with the low-level enemies as part of the starter campaign - we'll see how useful or OP Green Flame Blade is when you're facing far more powerful enemies, which like you say, if they get through the seemingly high AC for a wizard it may only take one hit.
Hell, I got hit as part of an ambush and lost 6 of my 8 hit points.
Regardless, it's fun to be playing again - like I said, not play for around 25 years.
Just a general comment ..
There are a number of features in 5e that may feel OP when you first run into them, especially if you are coming from earlier editions of the game. In my experience, they aren't. They tend to be cool low probability events that tend to define the character a bit or temporary situations that go away after a level or two.
For example ...
- a rogue getting a sneak attack critical hit or a paladin using a smite on a critical hit. Both of these can generate a seemingly huge amount of damage from a single attack. At earlier levels, such a lucky roll might take down the bad guy in a single hit which can leave the DM or the players saying "Wow, that is OP". It isn't. These abilities are pretty well balanced with the abilities of both the opponents (NPCs and monsters of a reasonable challenge level) and with the abilities of other characters. Looking at level 1-16 play, this version of D&D is probably the most "balanced" I've ever played.
- a moon druid gains the ability to shape change into CR1 creatures at level 2. Some of these are very good and can be better than an equivalent level fighter without certain feats. However, by level 4-5, the wild shape isn't that much better or about equal to a fighter and as you go to higher level the moon druid's shapes tend to have less AC and hit points than a fighter so in the end it balances out. At level 2 it probably is a bit powerful, but level 2 doesn't last long and higher level moon druids are pretty well balanced (though their level 20 ability, if you actually play a moon druid exclusively to level 20 is one of the better ones).
In addition, there is a significant increase in character capabilities at 5th level. Martial characters will get a second attack for the most part, proficiency goes up and casters get access to 3rd level spells. All of these can make a 5th level character feel much more powerful than a 4th level character. It isn't that bad but there are power increases in the characters typically at 5th, 11th and 17th level which are the boundaries for each tier of play.
However, in this version of the game, it is quite possible to have fun adventures that extend all the way to level 20 though you end up fighting some very challenging monsters by the end.
Not to sound rude but are you using the dndbeyond character builder/sheet? It calculates everything for you. Modifiers, etc