Hi, just want to be sure I read all rules correctly and that the following is true by RAW...
Wild shape says that you keep all your racial features ... if the new form can use it.
Is it possible for a warforge to wild shape and keep its "integrated protection" feature ?
If it can be used, does that means that -for example- wildshaping into a bear would look like a "warforge bear" ? Cause i would find it very cool as a character concept ...
It's worth noting that Keith Baker is not the overall D&D rules designer, and while he is the most responsible for the Eberron campaign guide, he actually doesn't have any authority in Sage Advice or determining what is RAW - he can provide input on RAI and that's it.
However, you do "become" that creature and take on its stats. You become an organic beast which would not be able to make use of integrated protection because the metals and wood that make that are no longer present in your form. When wildshape refers to making use of racial features it means things that can be used in the organic beast form: like breathing underwater if you were a sea elf or a Halfling's Brave and Lucky features.
It can get confusing though, because the RAW and RAI are not aligned. The intent seems to be keeping the things not necessarily bound to physical form like natural luck, language, and to lose the physical things like flying wings, or natural claws if they don't match the new form (having claw feature is odd if a snake, for example but perfectly fine if a panther, say). But it's not implemented well enough as RAW to properly distinguish these things. For example: your ability score increases to strength dex etc are very much tied to the physical form yet can be used in any beast form, so do you have it because it says you keep racial features that can be used in the new form or do you lose it because you no longer have the body they are bound to (your muscles, sinews, tendons are all different now, so where would the bonus be coming from?).
That said, integrated protection is not something you can use in a new form because that form is flesh. Now, it is, however, really fluffing cool. So, maybe homebrew rule it (with DM) so you can use it, but there may be some restriction like using the heavy plating prevents flying and that and the medium armour one halves any swim speed granted by the form? It's powerful but to be honest not broken. It's a bump to AC but there are ways for druids to cast Mage Armour and benefit from that even into new forms - taking either Mage Armour or Natural Armour whichever is highest if the form has natural armour (which is not the same as equipping armour so doesn;'t break the spell!), Nothing stops a druid having magic items made for their favourite wildshape forms to gain magic AC bonuses in those forms, either. So IP can be powerful for lower levels but nothing broken compared to what is available for characters anyway. At higher levels moon druids becoming elementals don't need the AC able to to just take the damage, heal while in the form, and by end level have infinite wild shape to basically reset their elemental form high HP every, single, turn making AC basically redundant. So, IP is good at low levels but high level moon druids won't be that incredibly beneficial.
And you have to realise most druids won't have the proficiencies for the full plate armour so, it's some super massive AC bonus. So, if I was DM I'd allow it, with some tweaks, totally workable.
I mean, you could just double down on the concept and say that your Warforged Druid is effectively a Beast Wars Transformer, and is transforming into mechanical versions of the animals it is Wild Shaping into. That sounds pretty freaking fantastic to me. But that would be something you'd want to have a conversation with your DM about, because that could get out of hand pretty quickly.
Well, i didnt want the equivalent of heavy armor since druid are not proficient with them, and your racial feature stipulate that you need proficiency in the armor to use its "integrated protection" equivalent ... was thinking about using the integrated medium armor.
And if what Cyb3rM1nd is saying is true, that would also means that a Warforge Druid would loose ALL its racial features while wild shaped, since all of the racial features from the Warforge are explained as "built in" features.
That would mean that warforge is the worse race to pick in all the available races to roll up a druid...
Most races (and classes for that matter) don't have any features that carry over to wild shape. Warforged is still a decent race for druids because druids don't usually have access to high AC.
Sadly I think Wild Shape is a *very* poorly thought out feature. It should either keep all your racial features or you lose all your racial features, not this stupid %@#! hodgepodge of "ehhhhh?"
So when a Dragonborn turns into a tiger it keeps its breathweapon and damage resistance? Because apparently none of those are "tied" to it's physiology and are "magic" A Duergar loses it's Superior Darkvision, but keeps Sunlight Sensitivity and resistance to charmed and paralyzed? A Tabaxi definitively loses Darkvision and Cat's Claws but keeps Cat's Talent, does it keep "Feline Agility" or is that based on it's body? A Yuan-ti loses Darkvision, can't cast it's innate spells until 18th lvl, but keeps magic resistance and poison immunity? Does a Golbin keep Fury of the Small and Nimble Escape when it turns into a BEAR?!
Is there really even a balance issue if Warforged Druid turns into a BeastWars Transformer? So it has a higher AC then most Druids, so is a Druid with 1 lvl in Draconic Sorcerer having a 3+Dex AC because they keep Draconic Resiliance or 2 lvls of Monk and you have 10+DEX+WIS, +10 of movement (to all types of movement), and Ki points that aren't spells are use able.
But apparently the Tough feat doesn't effect Wildshape but like every other @#%! feat does, like Mobile, Observant, Lucky, etc... Heck Beast even tell you what their HitDice are, so a Brown Bear with 34 hp (4d10+12), would be easy to figure out. 2hp*4 hit dice= +8 hp!
Well, if magic is the explaination behind it, a warforge is not a regular construct ... magic gave it life and organic like features (if you read the race description). So if a dragonborn keeps its breath weapon, I would say a warforge should keep its features because, hey, its the magic animating the construct and giving it sentience that has created those racial features.
Would be great to have a real come back from a game developper on that ... or an official errata.
Considering this passage noting on druid wildshapes:
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
I think its not that hard to see why warforged wouldnt benefit. While cute flavor. Wildshape is by definition turning into the beast. Not a construct in the approximate appearance of a beast. Integrated armor doesnt work for humans or horses because magic isnt actually what allows warforged to install armor into their bodies. The fact warforged dont need food water or sleep is however something i would allow to pass over. For a start no druid can spend so long in wildshape at one time that an animal would starve to death.
Dragonborn breath i would rule cannot be used in creatures that lack a mouth. Or the ability to exhale through it. So no firebreathing jellyfish. And for sharks and regular fish I might rule that the elemental jet bursts backward from their gills.
Fury of the small probably i would let slide. I forget if being able to use it requires the target to be bigger than you. But if so then you only lose it if you try to fight something like other goblins when in the form of a bear. But if in the form of a smaller creature its also sensible to retain those traits.
And bears dont have shells. But a tortoise does.
For some traits "physically capable" might seem pretty difficult. But is a bear physically capable of being fire resistant? Spells and potions certainly allow it to happen. It has a skin. Its theoretically physically possible for that skin to be fire resistant. Its physically possible for it to be poison resistant. Not neccisarily naturally likely but they do have required physical trait.
I would say tabaxi feline agility might still be in effect as the trait is born from not just the body but the familiarity with moving in it and training it has recieved. A druid monk can use stunning strikes in wildshape as wildshape attacks are considered unarmed/natural weapons. And druidbarian can rage.
Now a changeling in wildshape would be tricky but potentially amusing. As while they have limits on their altered form the conditions stipulated are by raw compared to current form. Which means you could basically have a bear that can look like another bear or maybe a really big dog. Or look like a warforged bear. Or make itself look emaciated or well fed as required.. a kalashtar druid would be able to use its racial telepathy feature while shifted almost certainly as while a "language" the stipulation on speaking in wildshape is that the creature has the ability to do so. And telepathy requires nothing from the beasts form. I would also say that maybe a parrot or raven wildshape could manage speech.
Way i see it if the ability relies on a bodypart you dont have. Like tabaxi claws or aarakocra wings and talons. Its gone. If it relies on a bodypart you have something comparable to. Like.. skin.. a circulatory system. And the like id say it carries over. Also i believe tabaxi claws might carry over if you took the shape of a feline or suitably clawed animal. But unless i misread the trait the only part of it you would want is climbing speed. Which is reasonable but odds are you have a wildshape with a better climb speed anyway and if you really want to be scaling a wall in a combat wildshape id say experience climbing with claws would make it possible. The bonus damage of the claws however. Kind of useless..
Looked it up. Fury of the small only needs your target be bigger than you. Not "medium or larger" so if you get hit with an enlarge spell or wildshape into a larger creature. You still can only use it on something thats bigger than you are at that moment. Nimble escape would carry over well as its more a reflection of goblins neccisarily needing to be good at retreating. Not even being size dependant or limb related. And the RAW does say "retain the benefit of any features" sunlight sensitivity isnt really a benefit
Similarly a kobold druid would benefit from pack tactics. And probably grovel cower and beg.
As a DM i might rule that sunlight sensitivity wouldnt carry over as that might be attributed to a special sense you no longer have And the RAW does say "retain the benefit of any features" sunlight sensitivity isnt really a benefit
Also to clarify. I love the idea of a transformer warfoged druid.
But as the "mode" of the integrated protection feature can only be selected at the end of a long rest anyway. I wouldnt permit it to take effect. And the ability relies on having several panels of optional material in your body it wouldnt really carry over.
As a DM i would happily let you flavor all your wildshapes as warforged variants but you'd still have to use the normal creatures AC and stat block etc. I might permit with a circle of the moon druid to allow the concept of the panels to be used but locked into the creatures form in that mode. *IF* everyone at the table really liked the idea. And it didnt cause a party imbalance but that would be going off raw and into homebrew. Which is always doable ofcourse within limits
Hi, just want to be sure I read all rules correctly and that the following is true by RAW...
Wild shape says that you keep all your racial features ... if the new form can use it.
Is it possible for a warforge to wild shape and keep its "integrated protection" feature ?
If it can be used, does that means that -for example- wildshaping into a bear would look like a "warforge bear" ? Cause i would find it very cool as a character concept ...
Thanks to help me on that.
Hi there Akkitenshi,
unfortunately the answer is that this doesn't work by RAW:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/09/12/if-a-warforged-druid-wildshapes-do-they-wildshape-into-an-entirely-organic-creature/
It would be pretty cool though - having a sort of organic-tech bear!
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It's worth noting that Keith Baker is not the overall D&D rules designer, and while he is the most responsible for the Eberron campaign guide, he actually doesn't have any authority in Sage Advice or determining what is RAW - he can provide input on RAI and that's it.
However, you do "become" that creature and take on its stats. You become an organic beast which would not be able to make use of integrated protection because the metals and wood that make that are no longer present in your form. When wildshape refers to making use of racial features it means things that can be used in the organic beast form: like breathing underwater if you were a sea elf or a Halfling's Brave and Lucky features.
It can get confusing though, because the RAW and RAI are not aligned. The intent seems to be keeping the things not necessarily bound to physical form like natural luck, language, and to lose the physical things like flying wings, or natural claws if they don't match the new form (having claw feature is odd if a snake, for example but perfectly fine if a panther, say). But it's not implemented well enough as RAW to properly distinguish these things. For example: your ability score increases to strength dex etc are very much tied to the physical form yet can be used in any beast form, so do you have it because it says you keep racial features that can be used in the new form or do you lose it because you no longer have the body they are bound to (your muscles, sinews, tendons are all different now, so where would the bonus be coming from?).
That said, integrated protection is not something you can use in a new form because that form is flesh. Now, it is, however, really fluffing cool. So, maybe homebrew rule it (with DM) so you can use it, but there may be some restriction like using the heavy plating prevents flying and that and the medium armour one halves any swim speed granted by the form? It's powerful but to be honest not broken. It's a bump to AC but there are ways for druids to cast Mage Armour and benefit from that even into new forms - taking either Mage Armour or Natural Armour whichever is highest if the form has natural armour (which is not the same as equipping armour so doesn;'t break the spell!), Nothing stops a druid having magic items made for their favourite wildshape forms to gain magic AC bonuses in those forms, either. So IP can be powerful for lower levels but nothing broken compared to what is available for characters anyway. At higher levels moon druids becoming elementals don't need the AC able to to just take the damage, heal while in the form, and by end level have infinite wild shape to basically reset their elemental form high HP every, single, turn making AC basically redundant. So, IP is good at low levels but high level moon druids won't be that incredibly beneficial.
And you have to realise most druids won't have the proficiencies for the full plate armour so, it's some super massive AC bonus. So, if I was DM I'd allow it, with some tweaks, totally workable.
But RAW is no, as far as I can interpret it.
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I mean, you could just double down on the concept and say that your Warforged Druid is effectively a Beast Wars Transformer, and is transforming into mechanical versions of the animals it is Wild Shaping into. That sounds pretty freaking fantastic to me. But that would be something you'd want to have a conversation with your DM about, because that could get out of hand pretty quickly.
Well, i didnt want the equivalent of heavy armor since druid are not proficient with them, and your racial feature stipulate that you need proficiency in the armor to use its "integrated protection" equivalent ... was thinking about using the integrated medium armor.
And if what Cyb3rM1nd is saying is true, that would also means that a Warforge Druid would loose ALL its racial features while wild shaped, since all of the racial features from the Warforge are explained as "built in" features.
That would mean that warforge is the worse race to pick in all the available races to roll up a druid...
Most races (and classes for that matter) don't have any features that carry over to wild shape. Warforged is still a decent race for druids because druids don't usually have access to high AC.
Would be better for a pure spellcasting one, you're right (like shepherd or of the land)
For all those saying that you need to remain organic, what about a tortle? Would his turtle shell ability transfer forms?
Sadly I think Wild Shape is a *very* poorly thought out feature.
It should either keep all your racial features or you lose all your racial features, not this stupid %@#! hodgepodge of "ehhhhh?"
So when a Dragonborn turns into a tiger it keeps its breathweapon and damage resistance? Because apparently none of those are "tied" to it's physiology and are "magic"
A Duergar loses it's Superior Darkvision, but keeps Sunlight Sensitivity and resistance to charmed and paralyzed?
A Tabaxi definitively loses Darkvision and Cat's Claws but keeps Cat's Talent, does it keep "Feline Agility" or is that based on it's body?
A Yuan-ti loses Darkvision, can't cast it's innate spells until 18th lvl, but keeps magic resistance and poison immunity?
Does a Golbin keep Fury of the Small and Nimble Escape when it turns into a BEAR?!
Is there really even a balance issue if Warforged Druid turns into a BeastWars Transformer? So it has a higher AC then most Druids, so is a Druid with 1 lvl in Draconic Sorcerer having a 3+Dex AC because they keep Draconic Resiliance or 2 lvls of Monk and you have 10+DEX+WIS, +10 of movement (to all types of movement), and Ki points that aren't spells are use able.
But apparently the Tough feat doesn't effect Wildshape but like every other @#%! feat does, like Mobile, Observant, Lucky, etc...
Heck Beast even tell you what their HitDice are, so a Brown Bear with 34 hp (4d10+12), would be easy to figure out. 2hp*4 hit dice= +8 hp!
Well, if magic is the explaination behind it, a warforge is not a regular construct ... magic gave it life and organic like features (if you read the race description). So if a dragonborn keeps its breath weapon, I would say a warforge should keep its features because, hey, its the magic animating the construct and giving it sentience that has created those racial features.
Would be great to have a real come back from a game developper on that ... or an official errata.
Considering this passage noting on druid wildshapes:
I think its not that hard to see why warforged wouldnt benefit. While cute flavor. Wildshape is by definition turning into the beast. Not a construct in the approximate appearance of a beast. Integrated armor doesnt work for humans or horses because magic isnt actually what allows warforged to install armor into their bodies. The fact warforged dont need food water or sleep is however something i would allow to pass over. For a start no druid can spend so long in wildshape at one time that an animal would starve to death.
Dragonborn breath i would rule cannot be used in creatures that lack a mouth. Or the ability to exhale through it. So no firebreathing jellyfish. And for sharks and regular fish I might rule that the elemental jet bursts backward from their gills.
Fury of the small probably i would let slide. I forget if being able to use it requires the target to be bigger than you. But if so then you only lose it if you try to fight something like other goblins when in the form of a bear. But if in the form of a smaller creature its also sensible to retain those traits.
And bears dont have shells. But a tortoise does.
For some traits "physically capable" might seem pretty difficult. But is a bear physically capable of being fire resistant? Spells and potions certainly allow it to happen. It has a skin. Its theoretically physically possible for that skin to be fire resistant. Its physically possible for it to be poison resistant. Not neccisarily naturally likely but they do have required physical trait.
I would say tabaxi feline agility might still be in effect as the trait is born from not just the body but the familiarity with moving in it and training it has recieved. A druid monk can use stunning strikes in wildshape as wildshape attacks are considered unarmed/natural weapons. And druidbarian can rage.
Now a changeling in wildshape would be tricky but potentially amusing. As while they have limits on their altered form the conditions stipulated are by raw compared to current form. Which means you could basically have a bear that can look like another bear or maybe a really big dog. Or look like a warforged bear. Or make itself look emaciated or well fed as required.. a kalashtar druid would be able to use its racial telepathy feature while shifted almost certainly as while a "language" the stipulation on speaking in wildshape is that the creature has the ability to do so. And telepathy requires nothing from the beasts form. I would also say that maybe a parrot or raven wildshape could manage speech.
Way i see it if the ability relies on a bodypart you dont have. Like tabaxi claws or aarakocra wings and talons. Its gone. If it relies on a bodypart you have something comparable to. Like.. skin.. a circulatory system. And the like id say it carries over. Also i believe tabaxi claws might carry over if you took the shape of a feline or suitably clawed animal. But unless i misread the trait the only part of it you would want is climbing speed. Which is reasonable but odds are you have a wildshape with a better climb speed anyway and if you really want to be scaling a wall in a combat wildshape id say experience climbing with claws would make it possible. The bonus damage of the claws however. Kind of useless..
Looked it up. Fury of the small only needs your target be bigger than you. Not "medium or larger" so if you get hit with an enlarge spell or wildshape into a larger creature. You still can only use it on something thats bigger than you are at that moment. Nimble escape would carry over well as its more a reflection of goblins neccisarily needing to be good at retreating. Not even being size dependant or limb related. And the RAW does say "retain the benefit of any features" sunlight sensitivity isnt really a benefit
Similarly a kobold druid would benefit from pack tactics. And probably grovel cower and beg.
As a DM i might rule that sunlight sensitivity wouldnt carry over as that might be attributed to a special sense you no longer have And the RAW does say "retain the benefit of any features" sunlight sensitivity isnt really a benefit
Also to clarify. I love the idea of a transformer warfoged druid.
But as the "mode" of the integrated protection feature can only be selected at the end of a long rest anyway. I wouldnt permit it to take effect. And the ability relies on having several panels of optional material in your body it wouldnt really carry over.
As a DM i would happily let you flavor all your wildshapes as warforged variants but you'd still have to use the normal creatures AC and stat block etc. I might permit with a circle of the moon druid to allow the concept of the panels to be used but locked into the creatures form in that mode. *IF* everyone at the table really liked the idea. And it didnt cause a party imbalance but that would be going off raw and into homebrew. Which is always doable ofcourse within limits
Well, since we play by RAW, no Transformer druid form for me.
I'm now thorn between a Halfling of House Jorasco (Mark of healing) ... OR ... Kenku that went to druid class in order to fly naturally again.