Could someone with two weapons be able to slash with both weapons simultaneously, like bringing both weapons close to each other and take sort of a baseball swing with both in the same motion? And if so, would it count as 1 attack or 2 as it is both one motion as well as two weapons? As well as, would you deal 1 weapon's damage or both?
There are no rules for that. It would be up to DM to house rule.
Well, there actually is. Its answered in post 2 of this thread. If you are wielding a weapon in both hands each weapon would have to be rolled separately even if you are attacking the same target at the same time. You still have to get past the AC of the target to do any damage on each weapon.
So sorry for being ambiguous. By saying "there are no rules for [doing] that," I meant "there are no rules that say you can do that."
The fact that there are rules that say you can do something different, does not answer his question or oppose my answer. Either way, in order to do what he wants, the DM needs to make a house rule (which is what I said).
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
The RAW isn't actually unclear. Here's the rule for Two Weapon Fighting: "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand."
The only stipulation is that you make the the bonus action attack with a weapon that is different from the one use for the triggering attack. If you have the ability to make more than one attack with your Attack action, the Two Weapon Fighting rules do not care about anything other than the one attack you use as justification for your bonus action attack.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
Turn X + 1: The caster can use a cantrip during the Attack action because the Bladesinger's level 6 feature lets them do so.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
Turn X + 1: The caster can use a cantrip during the Attack action because the Bladesinger's level 6 feature lets them do so.
Ah, I assume you are using Tasha's rules. I have not seen that book, and assume those are optional rules, unless you are playing AL.
Tasha's basically reprinted the Bladesinger and now DNDBeyond uses it as the RAW version. If you own it from anywhere it should be using the new version.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
No. The caster swings shadow blade once, then uses the shortsword for booming blade. What, if any bonus actions attacks are available for two weapon fighting.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
The RAW isn't actually unclear. Here's the rule for Two Weapon Fighting: "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand."
The only stipulation is that you make the the bonus action attack with a weapon that is different from the one use for the triggering attack. If you have the ability to make more than one attack with your Attack action, the Two Weapon Fighting rules do not care about anything other than the one attack you use as justification for your bonus action attack.
Which is that, the shadow blade swing, or the shortsword swing for booming blade? Both weapons were used in the attack action, so do either of them count as "different" for the purposes of a bonus action attack?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
No. The caster swings shadow blade once, then uses the shortsword for booming blade. What, if any bonus actions attacks are available for two weapon fighting.
Both. You meet the requirements to be able to use both weapons for the Two-Weapon Fighting bonus action. Even though the shortsword is being used for Booming Blade - you are actually making an attack with it during your Attack action. So you could use either weapon as you wish.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand.
As long as you meet that criteria, and it sounds like you have, you are free to use the shortsword for two weapon fighting. At least that's how it looks to me.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
No. The caster swings shadow blade once, then uses the shortsword for booming blade. What, if any bonus actions attacks are available for two weapon fighting.
Both. You meet the requirements to be able to use both weapons for the Two-Weapon Fighting bonus action. Even though the shortsword is being used for Booming Blade - you are actually making an attack with it during your Attack action. So you could use either weapon as you wish.
The question comes in because two weapon fighting specifically says /different/. Since both weapons have been used, is either different? That's why this is not clear to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yes. They are both different from weapons you've used during your Attack action - therefore you could use either for the Bonus Action.
The weapon you use for the Bonus Action doesn't need to be different from all the weapons you used during your Attack action - just the one you used to trigger Two-Weapon Fighting - which can be either one as you wish if you used more than one for the Attack action.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand.
As long as you meet that criteria, and it sounds like you have, you are free to use the shortsword for two weapon fighting. At least that's how it looks to me.
I think that this and Emmber's response are probably the best answer RAW. I could see some DMs getting grumpy and saying that the bonus action attack had to be done via the shortsword because of either a) the shadow blade attack was first or b) the shortsword doesn't qualify because it was part of a cantrip, but I think it would be mostly because they don't like the idea of a wizard getting the three attacks with the Booming Blade.
I would like to see if they allow the cantrip addition of Bladesinger Extra Attack to stack with Fighter Extra Attack (still just the max of 3 attacks but one can be a cantrip), but my guess is that won't be a thing. The way that War Magic is worded, that would allow a EK11/bladesinger 6 to attack 4 times at 17 and have the cantrip damage on top (3 attacks from fighter 11, one swapped to Booming Blade, which would trigger the War Magic Bonus Action. I'm assuming that's an interaction that they don't want and the current wording of Extra Attack in the multiclass rules would prevent it, though you could choose which version of Extra Attack that you wanted to use on a turn by turn basis since you would have both versions. That would still give EK7/Bladesinger6 the ability to war magic off of the extra attack, barring errata chanting war magic to triggering off of cast a spell only.
I'm guessing that's part of the reason that they kept bladesinger's extra attack called extra attack.
I think I'm guessing that's part of the reason that they kept bladesinger's extra attack called extra attack.
It's not the name of the feature that's important (see the Warlock invocation Thirsting Blade for example) - it's more that the Extra Attack feature (and those like it) specifically say you can attack 𝑥 number of times instead of giving you 1 extra attack. Therefore they don't stack - ever.
I think I'm guessing that's part of the reason that they kept bladesinger's extra attack called extra attack.
It's not the name of the feature that's important (see the Warlock invocation Thirsting Blade for example) - it's more that the Extra Attack feature (and those like it) specifically say you can attack 𝑥 number of times instead of giving you 1 extra attack. Therefore they don't stack - ever.
Right, but unlike other Extra Attack features, Bladesinger gives you a reason to sometimes use it instead of the fighter extra attack. The ek11/bladesinger6 could either make 3 weapon attacks using Fighter Extra Attack (2) and do whatever they do with their bonus action, or they could make 1 weapon attack and cast a cantrip with bladesinger extra attack. Because they cast a cantrip with their action, they could then use war magic to make a bonus action attack. That would probably be stronger than the two weapon fighting option that crzyhawk was asking about since it would have the attack mod added in plus whatever non-two handed fighting style that the fighter took.
The bladesinger extra attack change certainly adds to the gishy things that people will be able to do.
Yes, the Ek version would likely be stronger. primarily, I am trying to figure out if now that shadowblade has been errata'd to not work with booming blade/green flame blade, if there's a way to swing the shadowblade twice and /still/ get a cantrip attack in with BB/GFB on a bladesinger. That requires using a physical weapon for the cantrip attack. TWF would be necessary to get a second swing in with the shadowblade since it can't be used when you cast the cantrip.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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So sorry for being ambiguous. By saying "there are no rules for [doing] that," I meant "there are no rules that say you can do that."
The fact that there are rules that say you can do something different, does not answer his question or oppose my answer. Either way, in order to do what he wants, the DM needs to make a house rule (which is what I said).
Sorry to revive an old thread, but that seems preferrable to starting a new one on a related topic. As was mentioned above, you can hold a weapon in each hand, and attack with each using the attack action, provided you have the ability to attack multiple times (like say, a level 6 bladesinger).
So, the question is, if you do that...use your ability to attack multiple times and use separate weapons with the attack action...can you still use a bonus action to attack. technically, the rule says you can attack with a /different/ light weapon you're holding, so if you have swung both weapons...can you swing one again? It's an edge case since most people just swing their best weapon twice and their second one with a bonus action. However, with the changes to the melee cantrips and shadowblade interaction, there's a legit reason to dosing something else.
Say you are a level 6 bladesinger wizard. We'll make you an elf, so you have a shortsword in one hand, and shadowblade in the other hand. RAW you cannot cast a melee cantrip with shadowblade. RAW, you can swing your shadowblade and cast a cantrip, replacing the second swing by using the shortsword in the other hand to apply the melee cantrip. Can you now, use a bonus action to swing the shadowblade again? RAW seems unclear because you've already swung both weapons, however, the /last/ weapon you swung was the shortsword, so the shadowblade would be different. The definition of different seems to be what's key here.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The RAW isn't actually unclear. Here's the rule for Two Weapon Fighting: "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand."
The only stipulation is that you make the the bonus action attack with a weapon that is different from the one use for the triggering attack. If you have the ability to make more than one attack with your Attack action, the Two Weapon Fighting rules do not care about anything other than the one attack you use as justification for your bonus action attack.
You lost me. Let me see if this is what you mean.
Turn X: Caster casts Shadowblade, and at end of turn has a Short Sword in one hand, Shadowblade in the other.
Turn X + 1: Caster wants to use Booming Blade, using the Short Sword as the M component. Because it is a spell cast, there is no Attack Action taken on the turn, and therefore no opportunity for an 2nd attack using a Bonus Action with the second weapon, or even a 2nd attack with the Shadowblade for a 6th level Bladesinger.
Turn X + 2: Caster attacks twice with the Shadowblade, and then with a Bonus Action, the Short Sword. No Booming Blade was cast on that turn.
Turn X + 1: The caster can use a cantrip during the Attack action because the Bladesinger's level 6 feature lets them do so.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Ah, I assume you are using Tasha's rules. I have not seen that book, and assume those are optional rules, unless you are playing AL.
No, it’s an erratum that applies to all bladesingers. Not optional at all (except in the sense that literally anything is technically optional).
Do you know hat erratum that is from? This is something I have missed then.
Tasha's basically reprinted the Bladesinger and now DNDBeyond uses it as the RAW version. If you own it from anywhere it should be using the new version.
But this is entirely off-topic.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
No. The caster swings shadow blade once, then uses the shortsword for booming blade. What, if any bonus actions attacks are available for two weapon fighting.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Which is that, the shadow blade swing, or the shortsword swing for booming blade? Both weapons were used in the attack action, so do either of them count as "different" for the purposes of a bonus action attack?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Both. You meet the requirements to be able to use both weapons for the Two-Weapon Fighting bonus action. Even though the shortsword is being used for Booming Blade - you are actually making an attack with it during your Attack action. So you could use either weapon as you wish.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
As long as you meet that criteria, and it sounds like you have, you are free to use the shortsword for two weapon fighting. At least that's how it looks to me.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The question comes in because two weapon fighting specifically says /different/. Since both weapons have been used, is either different? That's why this is not clear to me.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yes. They are both different from weapons you've used during your Attack action - therefore you could use either for the Bonus Action.
The weapon you use for the Bonus Action doesn't need to be different from all the weapons you used during your Attack action - just the one you used to trigger Two-Weapon Fighting - which can be either one as you wish if you used more than one for the Attack action.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I think that this and Emmber's response are probably the best answer RAW. I could see some DMs getting grumpy and saying that the bonus action attack had to be done via the shortsword because of either a) the shadow blade attack was first or b) the shortsword doesn't qualify because it was part of a cantrip, but I think it would be mostly because they don't like the idea of a wizard getting the three attacks with the Booming Blade.
I would like to see if they allow the cantrip addition of Bladesinger Extra Attack to stack with Fighter Extra Attack (still just the max of 3 attacks but one can be a cantrip), but my guess is that won't be a thing. The way that War Magic is worded, that would allow a EK11/bladesinger 6 to attack 4 times at 17 and have the cantrip damage on top (3 attacks from fighter 11, one swapped to Booming Blade, which would trigger the War Magic Bonus Action. I'm assuming that's an interaction that they don't want and the current wording of Extra Attack in the multiclass rules would prevent it, though you could choose which version of Extra Attack that you wanted to use on a turn by turn basis since you would have both versions. That would still give EK7/Bladesinger6 the ability to war magic off of the extra attack, barring errata chanting war magic to triggering off of cast a spell only.
I'm guessing that's part of the reason that they kept bladesinger's extra attack called extra attack.
It’s in the latest errata doc for the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, here: https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SCAG-Errata.pdf.
It's not the name of the feature that's important (see the Warlock invocation Thirsting Blade for example) - it's more that the Extra Attack feature (and those like it) specifically say you can attack 𝑥 number of times instead of giving you 1 extra attack. Therefore they don't stack - ever.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Right, but unlike other Extra Attack features, Bladesinger gives you a reason to sometimes use it instead of the fighter extra attack. The ek11/bladesinger6 could either make 3 weapon attacks using Fighter Extra Attack (2) and do whatever they do with their bonus action, or they could make 1 weapon attack and cast a cantrip with bladesinger extra attack. Because they cast a cantrip with their action, they could then use war magic to make a bonus action attack. That would probably be stronger than the two weapon fighting option that crzyhawk was asking about since it would have the attack mod added in plus whatever non-two handed fighting style that the fighter took.
The bladesinger extra attack change certainly adds to the gishy things that people will be able to do.
Yes, the Ek version would likely be stronger. primarily, I am trying to figure out if now that shadowblade has been errata'd to not work with booming blade/green flame blade, if there's a way to swing the shadowblade twice and /still/ get a cantrip attack in with BB/GFB on a bladesinger. That requires using a physical weapon for the cantrip attack. TWF would be necessary to get a second swing in with the shadowblade since it can't be used when you cast the cantrip.
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