Is sorcerer able to cast wish same way and as effectively as a wizard is?
I had a friendly argument lately. I wrote my hypothetical wish somewhere around draconic sorcerer level 3. Being a lawyer I wrote about page long Wish with the intention to become a real dragon.
Recently I get into a theoretical discussion with my Dungeon master and his position about the matter was that my sorcerer wouldn't be able to cast this spell this way (meaning with my page-long wording) because he wouldn't be intelligent enough to phrase it in that way. My Dungeon master would let a wizard cast it in that way though. Implications of this are that in this way a sorcerer is straight-up weaker casting wish than a wizard is.
My argument was that when we look at sorcerer versus wizard's casting they use different casting abilities are different and yes sorcerers are probably not as smart as wizards (definitely not as smart as wizards) but while casting a Wish sorcerer can offset this by the fact that the magic runs through their blood. Their casting is natural, innate. They might not be able to phrase the Wish that well but that nature of their casting should offset that (basically sorcerers should be able to use their charisma for formulating Wish or at least).
Another argument of mine was that the Wish spell is much more like sorcerer spell. When casting it you say something and it happens. That is a sorcerer’s ballpark (with subtle metamagic we do not even need to say anything and stuff happens). While casting Wish you do not see wizard do difficult hand weaving and saying timely magical formulae. You speak and your wish comes true (or not).
There is also another quite interesting question. Usually, you role-play your character as well as you can. You try your best to play role-play simpletons as well as genius-level mages. Casting a Wish (in the difficult way, not just replicating spells) you as a player directly influence campaign setting (it should be discussed with DM first off course), but is it more your wish or wish of your character? Are they the same or should they? Should DM even consider if the character is able to word a Wish some way?
I guess for me it would depend entirely on how you've written it. If it's full on contract style legal-speak then your DM probably has a point - your character is unlikely to know how to do that very well. But if it's simply concise writing then I think they're being too restrictive. I assume it's probably the former though?
Most simply, Wish in the rules is the same spell for Wizards and Sorcerers. RAW, the spell has exactly the same mechanics.
But from a roleplay perspective, it is an interesting consideration to think about *how* a Sorcerer might approach the Wish spell differently to a Wizard.
Ultimately though, the fact it’s on the Sorcerer’s spell list, means that you can cast it in whatever way you feel your character would.
It is your responsibility however to stay true to your character - and it’s good your DM is encouraging you to think about your characters attributes. But not good that he’s flat out denying your character to use the spell in whatever way you think your Sorcerer would - it’s your character after all - you know him best. Would your character write out a page long Wish?
I will caveat this with the fact that the DM is under no obligation to grant a non-standard Wish if they don’t think it’s feasible though. Or to grant it in an unexpected way. But I don’t think his reasoning of ‘Sorcerers aren’t smart enough to word it properly’ is a good reason at all. If you can cast the spell, you have the power to command the Wish into existence. Whatever that looks like to the DM.
I think you're right. While the wizard might actually be able to produce the document you did to cast their wish, the sorcerer's wish would come through by force of will, but with all the same meaning. My personal thought is that the document you wrote is the metagame wish and not what you're character actually wishes for. Specifically, wish says, "State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible." Your document is your statement to the DM.
A one-page long wish feels, to me, like the player trying to cover all of their bases, and not the character making a wish. There's a line between trying to say a wish in a smart way to try and ensure you're getting the result you're hoping for, and just putting everything down in legalese.
If you wish to be a dragon, you should probably just say "I wish to be a dragon". And if your DM turns your wish to crap because "you didn't work it smartly enough", talk to them and tell them that this isn't fun to you, that this was a lifelong dream of your character and you, and that this sucks for you. These things are better handled in the real-world than in-game. It can also feel like you're forcing your DM's hand here.
Also, it would be up to them to decide if Wish should be able to turn you into a dragon, because there are powerful creatures, and it should come at a cost (something an ability to shapechange into a young dragon, with no possibility for S or M spells components in dragon form).
Yeah, the document I produced is very legal writing. And I am 100% sure my sorcerer wouldn't be able to write something like that. But the question is when level 17 Int 20 wizard is able to write such a Wish (making it really hard for DM to mess with it) with his superior intellect, is there any way for a sorcerer to do it with charisma?
Sorcerer knows that he wants to be one. He wants to be a healthy, normal dragon with all its abilities and proper size and dragon must be alive. He wants instant change and not painful one that occurs at the time at this place at this plane of being. I can go on. The wizard with Int 20 is probably able to put that together in writing, but sorcerer just knows these things.
I just do not see why you would penalize sorcerer over wizard while both have the Wish spell in their spell lists.
when level 17 Int 20 wizard is able to write such a Wish with his superior intellect, is there any way for a sorcerer to do it with charisma?
I don't think we should differentiate between the 2, as you said, a Wizard might be aware of Wish made in the past and how they were distorted, so he should be able to make a smart wording (but I would limited to one or two sentences), whereas a Sorcerer might not take such care, but this kind of things should come more naturally to them, and their wish should work roughly the same way.
By which I don't mean that they should have the same consequences, but they should work roughly the same, and the bad consequences (if any, because even as DM, we're not forced to **** over our players at every turn, especially with a lv9 spell they have a 25% chance of never being able to cast again) should be more related to the character's personality than class.
Perhaps you're overcomplicating it? What you're wishing for is just a True Polymorph with full casting and no dispel. You'll get the usual Wish whiplash as its a lv 9 spell not 8/lower but you'd get that no matter how complicated your make your contract.
Are you doing it like this because you expect your DM to ruin the wish?
But the question is when level 17 Int 20 wizard is able to write such a Wish (making it really hard for DM to mess with it) with his superior intellect, is there any way for a sorcerer to do it with charisma?
Its never hard for the DM to ‘mess with it’.
You know, however complicated you make the Wish, however many bases you try and cover, however many loopholes you want to close or twists you want to straighten... the DM can - and is well within their right - to just say ‘nothing happens’.
Sure, it might be a sucky and unsatisfying move - but so is trying to force the DMs hand. If they don’t think your character can become a dragon, then while you control your character, they control the universe. You can’t force it to happen I’m afraid.
When the time comes, make the Wish - see what happens. A good DM will try and think of a creative and satisfying outcome. But the unpredictability of Wish is what makes it both the most powerful - and most unstable - spell in the game. That’s the fun of the spell. What would your Sorcerer do?
Perhaps you're overcomplicating it? What you're wishing for is just a True Polymorph with full casting and no dispel. You'll get the usual Wish whiplash as its a lv 9 spell not 8/lower but you'd get that no matter how complicated your make your contract.
Are you doing it like this because you expect your DM to ruin the wish?
It has significant differences with True Polymorph though. First of all, you would remove the concentration part of TP, which is huge. You would also probably want to have the form stick, even if you're reduced to 0HP (but probably at the cost of being knocked unconscious if/when that happens). Spellcasting would need to still be available. And that's on top of changing the spell duration from "1 hour" to "permanent" (or rather, instantaneous).
You would also probably be "forced" to take the form of a metallic dragon, to access Change Shape, to be able to do normal stuff.
My ruling on the wish spell is that the entirety of the spell must be complete in 6 seconds (one round). Anything that takes longer causes the spell to fail. If your wording is a page, I sincerely doubt you could read it in the time stated for the spell (one action). I do this regardless of the class the caster is and it keeps my players from agonizing over the most legalistic way to get what they want
Wish leaves a lot up to the DM, and while I agree that restricting its use by class (Sorcerer v. Wizard) is unfair (especially since wizardry and law aren’t exactly related studies and both classes can max their spellcasting stat which is what you’re supposed to use for determining the outcome of your spells), allowing players to legalistically argue for the moon and expect it to just happen is no fun for the DM or really any other player.
It has significant differences with True Polymorph though. First of all, you would remove the concentration part of TP, which is huge. You would also probably want to have the form stick, even if you're reduced to 0HP (but probably at the cost of being knocked unconscious if/when that happens). Spellcasting would need to still be available. And that's on top of changing the spell duration from "1 hour" to "permanent" (or rather, instantaneous).
You would also probably be "forced" to take the form of a metallic dragon, to access Change Shape, to be able to do normal stuff.
Just to be clear, when I said "full casting" I mean the whole 'If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the spell lasts until it is dispelled.' I believe RAW this means your new form is a dragon even if you drop to 0 HP as it only requires concentration for the hour of the spell (and the effect can only be removed by dispelling not 0 HP). But I'm not arguing "Just wish for true polymorph!" but to use it as a guideline.
"I wish to be permanently transformed into an <age> <colour> dragon as if I had cast true polymorph and concentrated on for a full hour, but retaining my full sorcerer capabilities."
You can tag on a few extra things if you need to but I don't see it requiring a page of writing is my point :p.
Woops, my bad, I forgot about that bit from True Polymorph.
I find that wish not really fun, too specifically worded, but that's my own personal preference at play here. I feel like we're forcing the DM to do things a certain way. And looking at the original post, I think the DM would prefer the player just make a simple wish and roll with it, and to trust him not to be a dick.
Perhaps you're overcomplicating it? What you're wishing for is just a True Polymorph with full casting and no dispel. You'll get the usual Wish whiplash as its a lv 9 spell not 8/lower but you'd get that no matter how complicated your make your contract.
Are you doing it like this because you expect your DM to ruin the wish?
Nah I do not expect that. We are at level 12 now and the campaign has been running for somewhere near 3 years. It was for argument's sake. The wording of Wish was a somewhat mental exercise for me, something that I have done a really long time ago and it has come up lately. Also, I am of the opinion that being a dragon is not that big change to balance at that power level. From total health points standpoint, it is even worse because you do not get shape changed hp atop of yours. I would never wish for killing instantly all villains in setting or becoming God of Magic (where did we see that one before?). I never intended to use it in some great degree. Maybe in the last fight as oomph moment. I believe that becoming a dragon gets you into whole another league from a story point of view and smart character would keep it hidden as much as possible.
But the question is when level 17 Int 20 wizard is able to write such a Wish (making it really hard for DM to mess with it) with his superior intellect, is there any way for a sorcerer to do it with charisma?
Its never hard for the DM to ‘mess with it’.
You know, however complicated you make the Wish, however many bases you try and cover, however many loopholes you want to close or twists you want to straighten... the DM can - and is well within their right - to just say ‘nothing happens’.
Sure, it might be a sucky and unsatisfying move - but so is trying to force the DMs hand. If they don’t think your character can become a dragon, then while you control your character, they control the universe. You can’t force it to happen I’m afraid.
When the time comes, make the Wish - see what happens. A good DM will try and think of a creative and satisfying outcome. But the unpredictability of Wish is what makes it both the most powerful - and most unstable - spell in the game. That’s the fun of the spell. What would your Sorcerer do?
There are many stories about how Wish went wrong. From my understanding, you as a player can say "I wish to become a dragon." and you end up as a wooden toy belonging to some child in Waterdeep hence the effort to improve my odds. I understand that ultimately it is in DM's right to just that nothing happened (that would truly suck though), but I was surprised that somehow wizards are supposed to cast the spell better (can phrase it better) because they are smarter (have higher Intellect). As I said before I had tried to argue that sorcerer should have the same chance as a wizard to cast the spell successfully (worse wording but with let's say the power of his personality and different way of casting) but to no avail.
There are many stories about how Wish went wrong. From my understanding, you as a player can say "I wish to become a dragon." and you end up as a wooden toy belonging to some child in Waterdeep hence the effort to improve my odds.
A DM has a choice - they can either let you word the wish as specifically as you wish, or grant the spirit of the wish. If he doesn't let you do that, and turns you into a wooden dragon, he's just a dick.
Also, this kind of result can be expected from a wish granted by an evil genie, such as an Efreeti, because they have control over the wish and how they decide to interpret it. You're the one making the wish here, things should go at least mostly as you intend.
He definitely is not a dick :) He is a wonderful person that put a lot of work in what he does. And as it usually is between brothers we do not agree on everything. Thank you for your opinions :).
Then I would just make the wish point-blank "I wish to be a real dragon", and trust my DM to give me everything I want while still screwing me over juuust enough for things to be fun ;)
The limitation comes with the spirit of the wish from classic literature and other mediums. The person making the wish blurts out their desire in wish format, usually a simple request along the lines of "I wish I could live forever!". In some cases the wish is granted with a twist, something to make the wish have a price associated with it. If you look at other forms of media the wish is granted by the intent of the wish rather than the exact wording. Finally there's the evil djinn wish where the wording is used to find the most diabolical interpretation possible.
Were it up to me I'd look at where the wish is coming from. A djinn would most definitely grant a twisted and perverted interpretation of the wish. A Ring of Three Wishes would give a literal interpretation of the spell, it has no way of judging intent. Having it granted by a benevolent being, you could go with an intent based result or a small twist/cost associated.
---
The argument that I would present your DM about Sorcerer vs Wizard would come down to this:
Wizards would be able to use their Intelligence to create a well crafted wish, the wording would be succinct and many, if not all, of the loopholes would be covered. The spell, being cast by the Wizard, would be granted per the letter of the wish, a literal translation of the words into the wish.
The Sorcerer would use their Charisma to craft their wish, their innate power allowing them to use their intent instead of their words. The Sorcerer would have more leeway to have their wish granted, with the same accuracy as the Wizards, but without the need for the verbose request. This would require the Sorcerer to explain their intent and the DM to, fairly, give the Sorcerer a result of the same caliber as they would a well worded Wizard's wish.
I am rather critical of using wish for anything other than replication a level 8 or lower spell as an action without components (seriously, this is already the most powerful effect in the game).
As soon as a wish has an actionable phrase, that is when the wish ends and as literal as possible. Or maybe give them 1 breath to say as much as they can. Long, clause ridden wishes are too meta/power game-y.
As soon as a wish has an actionable phrase, that is when the wish ends and as literal as possible. Or maybe give them 1 breath to say as much as they can. Long, clause ridden wishes are too meta/power game-y.
I've played with DMs that like screwing over their players, and that actually enjoy having player fight back by trying to close loopholes and think ahead though. It's a very "Dark Souls" approach, but one that some players may enjoy. That type of DM will probably appreciate a player making the effort and taking the time to word the wish as carefully and precisely as possible.
But this should be worked out ahead of time: either your DM will be lenient, and you trust him to grant you your wish while maybe addind a bit of fun and/or interesting consequences, or he'll try to screw you over and you should be able to word your Wish as you desire.
What doesn't work is when you have one type of DM playing with the other type of player. Either the player will be seen as meta-gamey, or the DM will be seen as unfair.
Is sorcerer able to cast wish same way and as effectively as a wizard is?
I had a friendly argument lately. I wrote my hypothetical wish somewhere around draconic sorcerer level 3. Being a lawyer I wrote about page long Wish with the intention to become a real dragon.
Recently I get into a theoretical discussion with my Dungeon master and his position about the matter was that my sorcerer wouldn't be able to cast this spell this way (meaning with my page-long wording) because he wouldn't be intelligent enough to phrase it in that way. My Dungeon master would let a wizard cast it in that way though. Implications of this are that in this way a sorcerer is straight-up weaker casting wish than a wizard is.
My argument was that when we look at sorcerer versus wizard's casting they use different casting abilities are different and yes sorcerers are probably not as smart as wizards (definitely not as smart as wizards) but while casting a Wish sorcerer can offset this by the fact that the magic runs through their blood. Their casting is natural, innate. They might not be able to phrase the Wish that well but that nature of their casting should offset that (basically sorcerers should be able to use their charisma for formulating Wish or at least).
Another argument of mine was that the Wish spell is much more like sorcerer spell. When casting it you say something and it happens. That is a sorcerer’s ballpark (with subtle metamagic we do not even need to say anything and stuff happens). While casting Wish you do not see wizard do difficult hand weaving and saying timely magical formulae. You speak and your wish comes true (or not).
There is also another quite interesting question. Usually, you role-play your character as well as you can. You try your best to play role-play simpletons as well as genius-level mages. Casting a Wish (in the difficult way, not just replicating spells) you as a player directly influence campaign setting (it should be discussed with DM first off course), but is it more your wish or wish of your character? Are they the same or should they? Should DM even consider if the character is able to word a Wish some way?
What are your thoughts on the matter?
I guess for me it would depend entirely on how you've written it. If it's full on contract style legal-speak then your DM probably has a point - your character is unlikely to know how to do that very well. But if it's simply concise writing then I think they're being too restrictive. I assume it's probably the former though?
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Most simply, Wish in the rules is the same spell for Wizards and Sorcerers. RAW, the spell has exactly the same mechanics.
But from a roleplay perspective, it is an interesting consideration to think about *how* a Sorcerer might approach the Wish spell differently to a Wizard.
Ultimately though, the fact it’s on the Sorcerer’s spell list, means that you can cast it in whatever way you feel your character would.
It is your responsibility however to stay true to your character - and it’s good your DM is encouraging you to think about your characters attributes. But not good that he’s flat out denying your character to use the spell in whatever way you think your Sorcerer would - it’s your character after all - you know him best. Would your character write out a page long Wish?
I will caveat this with the fact that the DM is under no obligation to grant a non-standard Wish if they don’t think it’s feasible though. Or to grant it in an unexpected way. But I don’t think his reasoning of ‘Sorcerers aren’t smart enough to word it properly’ is a good reason at all. If you can cast the spell, you have the power to command the Wish into existence. Whatever that looks like to the DM.
I think you're right. While the wizard might actually be able to produce the document you did to cast their wish, the sorcerer's wish would come through by force of will, but with all the same meaning. My personal thought is that the document you wrote is the metagame wish and not what you're character actually wishes for. Specifically, wish says, "State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible." Your document is your statement to the DM.
A one-page long wish feels, to me, like the player trying to cover all of their bases, and not the character making a wish. There's a line between trying to say a wish in a smart way to try and ensure you're getting the result you're hoping for, and just putting everything down in legalese.
If you wish to be a dragon, you should probably just say "I wish to be a dragon". And if your DM turns your wish to crap because "you didn't work it smartly enough", talk to them and tell them that this isn't fun to you, that this was a lifelong dream of your character and you, and that this sucks for you. These things are better handled in the real-world than in-game. It can also feel like you're forcing your DM's hand here.
Also, it would be up to them to decide if Wish should be able to turn you into a dragon, because there are powerful creatures, and it should come at a cost (something an ability to shapechange into a young dragon, with no possibility for S or M spells components in dragon form).
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Yeah, the document I produced is very legal writing. And I am 100% sure my sorcerer wouldn't be able to write something like that. But the question is when level 17 Int 20 wizard is able to write such a Wish (making it really hard for DM to mess with it) with his superior intellect, is there any way for a sorcerer to do it with charisma?
Sorcerer knows that he wants to be one. He wants to be a healthy, normal dragon with all its abilities and proper size and dragon must be alive. He wants instant change and not painful one that occurs at the time at this place at this plane of being. I can go on. The wizard with Int 20 is probably able to put that together in writing, but sorcerer just knows these things.
I just do not see why you would penalize sorcerer over wizard while both have the Wish spell in their spell lists.
First of all, I think the wizard shouldn't be able to write a Wish in such a way either.
I don't think we should differentiate between the 2, as you said, a Wizard might be aware of Wish made in the past and how they were distorted, so he should be able to make a smart wording (but I would limited to one or two sentences), whereas a Sorcerer might not take such care, but this kind of things should come more naturally to them, and their wish should work roughly the same way.
By which I don't mean that they should have the same consequences, but they should work roughly the same, and the bad consequences (if any, because even as DM, we're not forced to **** over our players at every turn, especially with a lv9 spell they have a 25% chance of never being able to cast again) should be more related to the character's personality than class.
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Perhaps you're overcomplicating it? What you're wishing for is just a True Polymorph with full casting and no dispel. You'll get the usual Wish whiplash as its a lv 9 spell not 8/lower but you'd get that no matter how complicated your make your contract.
Are you doing it like this because you expect your DM to ruin the wish?
Its never hard for the DM to ‘mess with it’.
You know, however complicated you make the Wish, however many bases you try and cover, however many loopholes you want to close or twists you want to straighten... the DM can - and is well within their right - to just say ‘nothing happens’.
Sure, it might be a sucky and unsatisfying move - but so is trying to force the DMs hand. If they don’t think your character can become a dragon, then while you control your character, they control the universe. You can’t force it to happen I’m afraid.
When the time comes, make the Wish - see what happens. A good DM will try and think of a creative and satisfying outcome. But the unpredictability of Wish is what makes it both the most powerful - and most unstable - spell in the game. That’s the fun of the spell. What would your Sorcerer do?
It has significant differences with True Polymorph though. First of all, you would remove the concentration part of TP, which is huge. You would also probably want to have the form stick, even if you're reduced to 0HP (but probably at the cost of being knocked unconscious if/when that happens). Spellcasting would need to still be available. And that's on top of changing the spell duration from "1 hour" to "permanent" (or rather, instantaneous).
You would also probably be "forced" to take the form of a metallic dragon, to access Change Shape, to be able to do normal stuff.
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My ruling on the wish spell is that the entirety of the spell must be complete in 6 seconds (one round). Anything that takes longer causes the spell to fail. If your wording is a page, I sincerely doubt you could read it in the time stated for the spell (one action). I do this regardless of the class the caster is and it keeps my players from agonizing over the most legalistic way to get what they want
Wish leaves a lot up to the DM, and while I agree that restricting its use by class (Sorcerer v. Wizard) is unfair (especially since wizardry and law aren’t exactly related studies and both classes can max their spellcasting stat which is what you’re supposed to use for determining the outcome of your spells), allowing players to legalistically argue for the moon and expect it to just happen is no fun for the DM or really any other player.
Just to be clear, when I said "full casting" I mean the whole 'If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the spell lasts until it is dispelled.' I believe RAW this means your new form is a dragon even if you drop to 0 HP as it only requires concentration for the hour of the spell (and the effect can only be removed by dispelling not 0 HP). But I'm not arguing "Just wish for true polymorph!" but to use it as a guideline.
"I wish to be permanently transformed into an <age> <colour> dragon as if I had cast true polymorph and concentrated on for a full hour, but retaining my full sorcerer capabilities."
You can tag on a few extra things if you need to but I don't see it requiring a page of writing is my point :p.
Woops, my bad, I forgot about that bit from True Polymorph.
I find that wish not really fun, too specifically worded, but that's my own personal preference at play here. I feel like we're forcing the DM to do things a certain way. And looking at the original post, I think the DM would prefer the player just make a simple wish and roll with it, and to trust him not to be a dick.
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Nah I do not expect that. We are at level 12 now and the campaign has been running for somewhere near 3 years. It was for argument's sake. The wording of Wish was a somewhat mental exercise for me, something that I have done a really long time ago and it has come up lately. Also, I am of the opinion that being a dragon is not that big change to balance at that power level. From total health points standpoint, it is even worse because you do not get shape changed hp atop of yours. I would never wish for killing instantly all villains in setting or becoming God of Magic (where did we see that one before?). I never intended to use it in some great degree. Maybe in the last fight as oomph moment. I believe that becoming a dragon gets you into whole another league from a story point of view and smart character would keep it hidden as much as possible.
There are many stories about how Wish went wrong. From my understanding, you as a player can say "I wish to become a dragon." and you end up as a wooden toy belonging to some child in Waterdeep hence the effort to improve my odds. I understand that ultimately it is in DM's right to just that nothing happened (that would truly suck though), but I was surprised that somehow wizards are supposed to cast the spell better (can phrase it better) because they are smarter (have higher Intellect). As I said before I had tried to argue that sorcerer should have the same chance as a wizard to cast the spell successfully (worse wording but with let's say the power of his personality and different way of casting) but to no avail.
A DM has a choice - they can either let you word the wish as specifically as you wish, or grant the spirit of the wish. If he doesn't let you do that, and turns you into a wooden dragon, he's just a dick.
Also, this kind of result can be expected from a wish granted by an evil genie, such as an Efreeti, because they have control over the wish and how they decide to interpret it. You're the one making the wish here, things should go at least mostly as you intend.
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He definitely is not a dick :) He is a wonderful person that put a lot of work in what he does. And as it usually is between brothers we do not agree on everything. Thank you for your opinions :).
Then I would just make the wish point-blank "I wish to be a real dragon", and trust my DM to give me everything I want while still screwing me over juuust enough for things to be fun ;)
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I'm not sure who made the point but I'll echo it:
Summarize your document into a 1-3 sentence wish.
The limitation comes with the spirit of the wish from classic literature and other mediums. The person making the wish blurts out their desire in wish format, usually a simple request along the lines of "I wish I could live forever!". In some cases the wish is granted with a twist, something to make the wish have a price associated with it. If you look at other forms of media the wish is granted by the intent of the wish rather than the exact wording. Finally there's the evil djinn wish where the wording is used to find the most diabolical interpretation possible.
Were it up to me I'd look at where the wish is coming from. A djinn would most definitely grant a twisted and perverted interpretation of the wish. A Ring of Three Wishes would give a literal interpretation of the spell, it has no way of judging intent. Having it granted by a benevolent being, you could go with an intent based result or a small twist/cost associated.
---
The argument that I would present your DM about Sorcerer vs Wizard would come down to this:
Wizards would be able to use their Intelligence to create a well crafted wish, the wording would be succinct and many, if not all, of the loopholes would be covered. The spell, being cast by the Wizard, would be granted per the letter of the wish, a literal translation of the words into the wish.
The Sorcerer would use their Charisma to craft their wish, their innate power allowing them to use their intent instead of their words. The Sorcerer would have more leeway to have their wish granted, with the same accuracy as the Wizards, but without the need for the verbose request. This would require the Sorcerer to explain their intent and the DM to, fairly, give the Sorcerer a result of the same caliber as they would a well worded Wizard's wish.
I am rather critical of using wish for anything other than replication a level 8 or lower spell as an action without components (seriously, this is already the most powerful effect in the game).
As soon as a wish has an actionable phrase, that is when the wish ends and as literal as possible. Or maybe give them 1 breath to say as much as they can. Long, clause ridden wishes are too meta/power game-y.
I've played with DMs that like screwing over their players, and that actually enjoy having player fight back by trying to close loopholes and think ahead though. It's a very "Dark Souls" approach, but one that some players may enjoy. That type of DM will probably appreciate a player making the effort and taking the time to word the wish as carefully and precisely as possible.
But this should be worked out ahead of time: either your DM will be lenient, and you trust him to grant you your wish while maybe addind a bit of fun and/or interesting consequences, or he'll try to screw you over and you should be able to word your Wish as you desire.
What doesn't work is when you have one type of DM playing with the other type of player. Either the player will be seen as meta-gamey, or the DM will be seen as unfair.
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