My friend that I play 5e with keeps bringing up that when you crit it changes the number to a -10 or a 30. I have been looking for this rule for the past hour or so and the only results are the countless questions about if crits apply to skill checks. Also can't find anything in the PHB, only the small bit about crits on pg 194.
You're not finding it because it isn't there. The rule on page 194 (or here), is the only general rule about such things. Otherwise a natural 20 or a natural 1 don't have any specific handling in rolls other than attack rolls (interestingly enough, that includes Saving Throws, which took me a while to notice because that wasn't the case in 3rd edition).
The rule about -10 and 30 isn't very rare, I've heard about it a few times, but it's certainly a house rule. I don't believe I've seen it in the noted alternate rules in the DM's Guide or Xanathar's, so I suspect it's a remnant from older versions.
To recap, in the written rules, a natural 20 is an automatic hit (and a critical hit) in an attack roll, and a natural 1 is an automatic miss in an attack roll. They do not require any numerical adjustment, and they bear no other significance in other types of rolls, such as ability (skill) rolls or saving throws (in general rules; abilities, items, etc, can overrule with specific rules).
That's not what I was asking about. I was specifically asking about the -10 and 30 thing, to which it must be some homebrew rule my friend thinks applies. Thanks for confirming that.
You're not finding it because it isn't there. The rule on page 194 (or here), is the only general rule about such things. Otherwise a natural 20 or a natural 1 don't have any specific handling in rolls other than attack rolls (interestingly enough, that includes Saving Throws, which took me a while to notice because that wasn't the case in 3rd edition).
The rule about -10 and 30 isn't very rare, I've heard about it a few times, but it's certainly a house rule. I don't believe I've seen it in the noted alternate rules in the DM's Guide or Xanathar's, so I suspect it's a remnant from older versions.
To recap, in the written rules, a natural 20 is an automatic hit (and a critical hit) in an attack roll, and a natural 1 is an automatic miss in an attack roll. They do not require any numerical adjustment, and they bear no other significance in other types of rolls, such as ability (skill) rolls or saving throws (in general rules; abilities, items, etc, can overrule with specific rules).
I think Onyx explained it pretty well.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
The -10 and 30 rule is an alternative rule from the DMG that your friend’s DM must be using. It is used to prevent the situation where the fighter with strength 20 attacks a weak wooden door and rolls a 1 fails to break it in, and the rogue with strength 4 rolls a 20 and succeeds. It doesn’t make much sense in-universe, where any roll, regardless of having over 100 years of skill with that particular tool, there is a 1/20 chance of failure, and no amount of training can change it.
It isn’t listed in the PHB because it is an optional, internal rule. The players need not know about it for the game to be fun.
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“It is nearly impossible to prove(or disprove) quotes found on the internet.” - Gary Gygax
”It is just as hard to post on the internet without someone getting upset at what you post.” -Steve Wozniak
It doesn’t make much sense in-universe, where any roll, regardless of having over 100 years of skill with that particular tool, there is a 1/20 chance of failure, and no amount of training can change it.
There is no rule that a 1 is a failure on anything except an attack roll. If anything, the -10/+30 rule makes the situation *worse*, not better, in that respect.
It doesn’t make much sense in-universe, where any roll, regardless of having over 100 years of skill with that particular tool, there is a 1/20 chance of failure, and no amount of training can change it.
There is no rule that a 1 is a failure on anything except an attack roll. If anything, the -10/+30 rule makes the situation *worse*, not better, in that respect.
I was thinking the same thing.
In Jare's example, the fighter rolled a 6 and failed and the rogue rolled a 17 and succeeded. But says that if the rolls had been a -5 and 27 it would have somehow prevented those results.
My friend that I play 5e with keeps bringing up that when you crit it changes the number to a -10 or a 30. I have been looking for this rule for the past hour or so and the only results are the countless questions about if crits apply to skill checks. Also can't find anything in the PHB, only the small bit about crits on pg 194.
Crits and auto misses are only for attack rolls and nothing else. You can’t find it anywhere because it doesn’t exist outside of homebrew.
You're not finding it because it isn't there. The rule on page 194 (or here), is the only general rule about such things. Otherwise a natural 20 or a natural 1 don't have any specific handling in rolls other than attack rolls (interestingly enough, that includes Saving Throws, which took me a while to notice because that wasn't the case in 3rd edition).
The rule about -10 and 30 isn't very rare, I've heard about it a few times, but it's certainly a house rule. I don't believe I've seen it in the noted alternate rules in the DM's Guide or Xanathar's, so I suspect it's a remnant from older versions.
To recap, in the written rules, a natural 20 is an automatic hit (and a critical hit) in an attack roll, and a natural 1 is an automatic miss in an attack roll. They do not require any numerical adjustment, and they bear no other significance in other types of rolls, such as ability (skill) rolls or saving throws (in general rules; abilities, items, etc, can overrule with specific rules).
That's not what I was asking about. I was specifically asking about the -10 and 30 thing, to which it must be some homebrew rule my friend thinks applies. Thanks for confirming that.
I think Onyx explained it pretty well.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
As always, Onyx takes the time to envelop everybody with his vast knowledge and clear things up! 👏
#respect
The -10 and 30 rule is an alternative rule from the DMG that your friend’s DM must be using. It is used to prevent the situation where the fighter with strength 20 attacks a weak wooden door and rolls a 1 fails to break it in, and the rogue with strength 4 rolls a 20 and succeeds. It doesn’t make much sense in-universe, where any roll, regardless of having over 100 years of skill with that particular tool, there is a 1/20 chance of failure, and no amount of training can change it.
It isn’t listed in the PHB because it is an optional, internal rule. The players need not know about it for the game to be fun.
“It is nearly impossible to prove(or disprove) quotes found on the internet.” - Gary Gygax
”It is just as hard to post on the internet without someone getting upset at what you post.” -Steve Wozniak
There is no rule that a 1 is a failure on anything except an attack roll. If anything, the -10/+30 rule makes the situation *worse*, not better, in that respect.
I was thinking the same thing.
In Jare's example, the fighter rolled a 6 and failed and the rogue rolled a 17 and succeeded. But says that if the rolls had been a -5 and 27 it would have somehow prevented those results.