I DM an Adventurer's League table where one of my players particularly loves readying Silence against *all* of my spellcasters. Unfortunately it's starting to have a negative effect as AL frequently uses spellcasters to up the stakes of combat. How can I handle this???
How on earth is a character having the right tool for a given job "having a negative effect"? Is no one having any fun because their team is doing well?
It's a concentration spell, so use the built-in fix - have the bad guys lay into the silence caster with as much damage as they can manage until their concentration breaks.
And if all else fails, adjust your expectations: a single combat isn't meant to push a party to their limits, just burn some resources as the party goes through it, so a spell slot used up and an encounter defeated is right on track.
Sorcerers can use Subtle Spell to cast spells without needing any verbal or somatic components. Not every spellcaster will be a sorcerer and not every sorcerer will use Subtle Spell, but some will.
I agree with Thain and Aaron. Silence is easy enough to work around just by moving out of its range, or damaging the caster. If you can get out of the area even for just one turn, you can throw a low level spell with unavoidable damage like Magic Missile or Burning Hands their way to disrupt their concentration.
Also remember that there's also an opportunity cost to it; a cleric using Silence is a cleric that's not using Haste or Slow.
I don't know what are the constraints you have running Adventurer's League, but you should really avoid encounters with only 1 strong creature; they can be trivialized too easily. Ideally the spellcaster will have some friends. They don't have to be particularly dangerous; they just need to be able to hit the player with Silence for any amount of damage, or protect your spellcaster if the players try to keep it inside the Silence area.
if you're still having trouble, here's all the spells that don't have verbal components:
Player's Handbook =============== Beast Sense Counterspell Demiplane Friends Hypnotic Pattern Illusory Script Minor Illusion Mislead True Strike
Elemental Evil Player's Companion ============================ Absorb Elements Catapult Control Flames Ice Knife Mold Earth Shape Water Thunderclap
Hypnotic Pattern can potentially target an entire party, and as long as at least 1 person fails their save, another person will have to waste an action freeing them from its effects. If the caster concentrating on Silence fails the save, they're incapacitated and thus lose concentration.
Catapult is a great alternative to Magic Missile for damaging creatures with high AC; while it can "miss" (no damage on a failed save), it works against invisible enemies and can't be stopped by Shield. Few things resist magical bludgeoning damage.
Ice Knife is another nice choice because it gives you two chances to damage them and ruin their concentration; once with the ice shard, and again with the explosion. Like Catapult, it's also a level 1 spell so it's inexpensive.
As a last resort, casting spells from a magic item normally doesn't require verbal components unless it's something like a scroll. Even a humble Wand of Magic Missiles will do.
Couldn't you also move one of your spellcasters out of range and dispel the silence effect? Dispel Magic can target an effect and does not require the effect to be visible.
Dispel Magic works, but it's probably a losing strategy. Usually there's more players than monsters, and the enemy spellcasters are usually higher level than the players. A strong spellcasting monster losing its action on Dispel Magic is a bigger loss to the monster group than the action lost casting Silence. Doesn't help that Dispel Magic is a higher level spell too.
Counterspell is a better deal since all the monster loses is its reaction, though it's still far from perfect. It still has the higher level spell slot problem. You can't do it if you can't see the other caster, but the other caster doesn't have to see to cast silence; someone can just throw up a fake wall with Minor Illusion, or cast Fog Cloud, and they can cast Silence unchecked. Clever players can also use Shocking Grasp to take away the reaction you need to cast Counterspell. This is especially dangerous if the caster of Shocking Grasp has an owl familiar to deliver the spell without putting the caster in harm's way.
It's generally more efficient to try to break their concentration.
Silence has a rather short radius. (20ft) and cannot move once cast, the caster can move 20ft, then cast.
Please show me where it states you cannot move the spell? The words centered on a Point does not mean it cannot move. Its means that from that point your 20ft circle radius starts. If I cast it on a coin its point and center is the coin, if the coin moves it moves. As per the original 2e 3e rules which clarify the rule extensively but 5e didn't.
Counter Spell works well to stop it,
Dispel magic works to get rid of it
sorcerer meta magic can counter it by removing verbal component
Please show me where it states you cannot move the spell? The words centered on a Point does not mean it cannot move. Its means that from that point your 20ft circle radius starts. If I cast it on a coin its point and center is the coin, if the coin moves it moves. As per 2e 3e rules which clarify the rule extensively.
5th edition is written in such a way that a rules element does only what it says it does, so it is exceedingly rare to find anything which says what it cannot do such as a spell saying "you cannot move this effect" rather than just not saying how to move the spell (as a bonus action, as an action, not using an action) and how far it can be moved each time you move it.
And in no edition ever has what some other edition said in its rules had any amount of bearing upon the official rules.
Now, to illustrate as clearly as it can be illustrated that silence cannot move: compare it's text to the following spell which can have their effects moved; daylight, moonbeam.
Please show me where it states you cannot move the spell? The words centered on a Point does not mean it cannot move.
The rules tell you what you can do, not what you can't do. The Silence spell doesn't say it can be moved.
Its means that from that point your 20ft circle radius starts. If I cast it on a coin its point and center is the coin, if the coin moves it moves.
A coin is an object, not a point in space. Contrast its description with the Darkness spell, which does allow casting it on an object.
Also see the Spellcasting rules in Player's Handbook/Basic Rules chapter 10:
A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).
...
Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell's energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
Please show me where it states you cannot move the spell? The words centered on a Point does not mean it cannot move.
The rules tell you what you can do, not what you can't do. The Silence spell doesn't say it can be moved.
Its means that from that point your 20ft circle radius starts. If I cast it on a coin its point and center is the coin, if the coin moves it moves.
A coin is an object, not a point in space. Contrast its description with the Darkness spell, which does allow casting it on an object.
Also see the Spellcasting rules in Player's Handbook/Basic Rules chapter 10:
A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).
...
Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell's energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
Spell does not state point in space, it states center on a point, it further doesn't state if cannot be casted on an object or person.
This means by your understanding this spell is useless on a Ship or any type of travel as the mode of travel would move from that point.
Quote Spell: For the duration, no sound can be created within or pass through a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on a point you choose within range. Any creature or object entirely inside the sphere is immune to thunder damage, and creatures are deafened while entirely inside it. Casting a spell that includes a verbal component is impossible there.
Spell does not state point in space, it states center on a point, it further doesn't state if cannot be casted on an object or person.
This means by your understanding this spell is useless on a Ship or any type of travel as the mode of travel would move from that point...
The Spell doesn't need to define the word 'point', that is defined elsewhere as quoted by InquisitiveCoder. What a point most definitely is not is an enemy creature or an object being held or worn by an enemy creature. You may be able to negotiate with the DM when trying to use the spell on a ship or other large moving thing, where at least the thing you are moving in/on creates its own coherent frame of reference. Personally, for a large ship I would allow using that as a frame of reference for stable spells; for a small rowboat being tossed in the sea I would not; and for vessels in between I would allow an Arcana skill check to make the decision for us.
Spell does not state point in space, it states center on a point, it further doesn't state if cannot be casted on an object or person.
Again, that's not how the rules work. They say how the spell works, not how it doesn't work.
The spellcasting rules clearly say a point of origin for an area of effect is typically a point in space. Sometimes it's a creature or an object. If it's a creature or an object, the spell will say so.
This means by your understanding this spell is useless on a Ship or any type of travel as the mode of travel would move from that point.
Yes, and rightfully so. Back when it could be cast on an object, it obsoleted the need for the Move Silently skill (half of what became the Stealth skill in 5e). Likewise, back when Knock didn't create a loud noise, it obsoleted the Open Lock skill.
A DM is free to say extremely large vehicles are their own reference frame.
A DM is free to say extremely large vehicles are their own reference frame.
And, in fact, should freely do so considering that even the planet upon which the adventure is taking place is just a large vehicle drifting in space - so if spells weren't already expecting frame of reference to be used, effects would appear to speed off into the distance as the planet continues on its orbital path and rotation and the stationary spell effect remains genuinely stationary.
Spell does not state point in space, it states center on a point, it further doesn't state if cannot be casted on an object or person.
It also does not state you can't use it to force a Lich to roll a STR Saving Throw with Disadvantage with DC 30 or instantly transform into a Ring of Three Wishes on your finger.
As has been said before, in 5e, barring DM fiat, skills, spells, etc., do what the books say they do, no more. If the spell description says you can move the point, you can. If it doesn't, you can't. Furthermore, a "point" is a point in space. An object is an object. Objects and points overlap (the point you choose might be occupied by an object), but the spell is still tied to the point, not the object. If the object moves, the spell remains where it was. If some spell or effect warps space somehow, then the Silence spell might move, since the point itself is being moved.
Again you are adding words to make your point, Point in Space is no where mentioned, I am using the actual words printed. See Center on a Point is a logical reference for the circumference point of the radius. Clearly the spell is so loosely described like many of the rules. @Tonio your lich reference is useless and not relevant to the topic at hand, but you get a B+ for trying to deflect. What I am advocating it the authors did a half ass job on rules. Now how I can this working out is the spell is cast with the words stationary/Fixed to location/cannot move as part of the description and remove concentration then limit the duration to 1 minute or the spell functions as it was originally designed by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson intended.
Again you are adding words to make your point, Point in Space is no where mentioned, I am using the actual words printed. See Center on a Point is a logical reference for the circumference point of the radius. Clearly the spell is so loosely described like many of the rules. @Tonio your lich reference is useless and not relevant to the topic at hand, but you get a B+ for trying to deflect. What I am advocating it the authors did a half ass job on rules. Now how I can this working out is the spell is cast with the words stationary/Fixed to location/cannot move as part of the description and remove concentration then limit the duration to 1 minute or the spell functions as it was originally designed by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson intended.
"Point in space" is just a longer way of saying "point". There are various definitions for "point", but the one that makes sense in this context is "point in space".
The Lich reference is a reductio ad absurdum argument, it's not useless and it is relevant. Using your logic ("it doesn't say it can't be moved, so I should be able to move it"), I can make the same argument for "it doesn't say I can't transform an enemy into a magic item of my choosing, so I should be able to do it". In some rulesets, it works that way. Some rulesets point out what you can't do. In those, anything that's not explicitly forbidden can be done. D&D 5e is not one those rulesets. D&D 5e describes what you can do. Anything not explicitly allowed is forbidden. (Obviously, the DM can override any of that, and can allow things explicitly forbidden, and forbid things explicitly allowed.)
Now, if your point is that Silence is not as good as it should be, and should be changed, that's an entirely different discussion, and I'm not going to argue against that right now (mostly because I haven't used, and haven't been the target of, Silence enough to have an opinion that's informed enough). But in any case, the argument shouldn't be "they changed it from what it was back in original D&D", since by that logic, we should throw 90% of the rulebook out.
Again flawed thinking on the Lich reference, Silence is in the Illusion school of magic to transform a Lich that would be either Necromancy or Transformation schools of magic. True Polymorph
My Logic Here lets apply science using the spell words verbatim: NOT Point in Space , but Center on a Pointas per the spell description: A point inside the circle. All points on the circle are equidistant (same distance) from the Center Point. Radius The radius is the distance from the center to any point on the circle..
You maybe correct on some rules in the older edition but , I rather have a full list of can do and cannot do vs nothing defined. Specially when it comes to spells that been around for over 25 plus years and worked just fine.
"D&D 5e describes what you can do. Anything not explicitly allowed is forbidden." < Can you please point me to the page in the rules where this is at?
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I DM an Adventurer's League table where one of my players particularly loves readying Silence against *all* of my spellcasters. Unfortunately it's starting to have a negative effect as AL frequently uses spellcasters to up the stakes of combat. How can I handle this???
Counterspell.
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How on earth is a character having the right tool for a given job "having a negative effect"? Is no one having any fun because their team is doing well?
It's a concentration spell, so use the built-in fix - have the bad guys lay into the silence caster with as much damage as they can manage until their concentration breaks.
And if all else fails, adjust your expectations: a single combat isn't meant to push a party to their limits, just burn some resources as the party goes through it, so a spell slot used up and an encounter defeated is right on track.
Silence has a rather short radius. (20ft) and cannot move once cast, the caster can move 20ft, then cast.
Sorcerers can use Subtle Spell to cast spells without needing any verbal or somatic components. Not every spellcaster will be a sorcerer and not every sorcerer will use Subtle Spell, but some will.
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I agree with Thain and Aaron. Silence is easy enough to work around just by moving out of its range, or damaging the caster. If you can get out of the area even for just one turn, you can throw a low level spell with unavoidable damage like Magic Missile or Burning Hands their way to disrupt their concentration.
Also remember that there's also an opportunity cost to it; a cleric using Silence is a cleric that's not using Haste or Slow.
I don't know what are the constraints you have running Adventurer's League, but you should really avoid encounters with only 1 strong creature; they can be trivialized too easily. Ideally the spellcaster will have some friends. They don't have to be particularly dangerous; they just need to be able to hit the player with Silence for any amount of damage, or protect your spellcaster if the players try to keep it inside the Silence area.
if you're still having trouble, here's all the spells that don't have verbal components:
Player's Handbook
===============
Beast Sense
Counterspell
Demiplane
Friends
Hypnotic Pattern
Illusory Script
Minor Illusion
Mislead
True Strike
Elemental Evil Player's Companion
============================
Absorb Elements
Catapult
Control Flames
Ice Knife
Mold Earth
Shape Water
Thunderclap
Hypnotic Pattern can potentially target an entire party, and as long as at least 1 person fails their save, another person will have to waste an action freeing them from its effects. If the caster concentrating on Silence fails the save, they're incapacitated and thus lose concentration.
Catapult is a great alternative to Magic Missile for damaging creatures with high AC; while it can "miss" (no damage on a failed save), it works against invisible enemies and can't be stopped by Shield. Few things resist magical bludgeoning damage.
Ice Knife is another nice choice because it gives you two chances to damage them and ruin their concentration; once with the ice shard, and again with the explosion. Like Catapult, it's also a level 1 spell so it's inexpensive.
As a last resort, casting spells from a magic item normally doesn't require verbal components unless it's something like a scroll. Even a humble Wand of Magic Missiles will do.
Counter Spell works well to stop it,
What is "planet"? Pretty sure it's a disc, on elephants, on an infinite column of flying turtles...
Again you are adding words to make your point, Point in Space is no where mentioned, I am using the actual words printed. See Center on a Point is a logical reference for the circumference point of the radius. Clearly the spell is so loosely described like many of the rules. @Tonio your lich reference is useless and not relevant to the topic at hand, but you get a B+ for trying to deflect. What I am advocating it the authors did a half ass job on rules. Now how I can this working out is the spell is cast with the words stationary/Fixed to location/cannot move as part of the description and remove concentration then limit the duration to 1 minute or the spell functions as it was originally designed by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson intended.
Again flawed thinking on the Lich reference, Silence is in the Illusion school of magic to transform a Lich that would be either Necromancy or Transformation schools of magic. True Polymorph
My Logic
Here lets apply science using the spell words verbatim: NOT Point in Space , but Center on a Point as per the spell description:
A point inside the circle. All points on the circle are equidistant (same distance) from the Center Point.
Radius The radius is the distance from the center to any point on the circle..
You maybe correct on some rules in the older edition but , I rather have a full list of can do and cannot do vs nothing defined. Specially when it comes to spells that been around for over 25 plus years and worked just fine.
"D&D 5e describes what you can do. Anything not explicitly allowed is forbidden." < Can you please point me to the page in the rules where this is at?