1) do you retain any feats when polymorphed such as mobile, lucky, or Warcaster?
2) if a polymorphed creature gets petrified does it remain petrified when the polymorph effect ends?
1) No.
2) DM's call. Arguments can be made either way and not defined clearly either way. In my view, you remain petrified.
1) You retain NOTHING from your character except alignment and personality. The personality means that you won't eat your friends but that is about it, otherwise your character is completely replaced by the stat block of the beast/creature that you are polymorphed into.
2) I'd rule that you remain petrified. The petrified condition is not dependent on the form of the creature petrified. It is the same creature when polymorphed, it is just in a different form. Nothing in polymorph indicates that the creature loses any conditions when the polymorph ends. If they were poisoned, they would remain poisoned. If they were stunned, they would remain stunned and if they were petrified, they would remain petrified.
If the polymorph ends before the petrification then I'd rule the stone form retains the shape it had when petrified but when the petrification ends it immediately resumes its original form. A DM could rule that the petrified form might change shape but there is nothing in polymorph to indicate that any conditions imposed on the polymorphed shape would end when the spell ends.
Your stats are replaced by the beast statblock. That includes feats which are a result of class features. Trying to really overstretch wordplay to get around this is just silly. If you're going that route, then polymorphed peeps can cast S component only spells like Catapult - as spellcasting for some, like Wizards, is just knowledge they have after all and any beast form with a paw can provide a S component (which can be a simple gesture).
Paws are not hands and 'a' simple gesture does not equal the correct simple gesture. A paw cannot do human sign language, for example. It simply is not that complex an appendage.
Who defines correct? The rules do not. A gesture can be as simple as pointing. I have no idea why you're mentioning sign language. And you can become a monkey - which does have hands.
Similarly, the vocal chords are almost certainly not complex enough for speaking the correct words or sounds for verbal components. Again there are arguable exceptions: Apes for somatic and parrots for verbal, for example, but those are exceptions.
A lot more than parrots can do surprising things with vocal chords. Even cats can have considerable range of sounds with theirs (and a lot of their vocals, like certain types of meows they develop naturally specific for our (humans) benefit). Ravens can do a lot and can mimic certain sounds even parrots cannot. Noting that as per rules, Verbal components do not have to be words.
So does this mean you allow spellcasting in polymorphed form? Odd choice.
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Again, all of this is irrelevant because this is rules forum not houserule forum. When polymorphed you do not have access to anything on your sheet beyond alignment and your personality (which is not skills and memory - in fact there's a lot of neuroscience behind that difference including the fact that the parts of the brain for skills and knowledge memory is different than the part of the brain for personality. So where you get personality = memory/knowledge/skills idea from is weird because it's certainly not real world).
Everything else - including class, and the feats gained from it - are replaced by the statblock of the beast. That's the RAW. So why you're trying to nitpick your way to some non-RAW idea in the Rules forum, all based on some half-arsed notion that's not backed by anything in-game or out-of-game... Is weird, to put it politely.
Even the rules designers disagree with you, as determined by Sage Advice.
Can a creature under the effects of polymorph have other spell effects on them, or are those game statistics also replaced by the those of the beast form?
Polymorphreplaces only the target’s character sheet or stat block with the stat block of the chosen form. Other effects, such as other spells, still exist.
Paws are not hands and 'a' simple gesture does not equal the correct simple gesture. A paw cannot do human sign language, for example. It simply is not that complex an appendage.
Who defines correct? The rules do not. A gesture can be as simple as pointing. I have no idea why you're mentioning sign language. And you can become a monkey - which does have hands.
Similarly, the vocal chords are almost certainly not complex enough for speaking the correct words or sounds for verbal components. Again there are arguable exceptions: Apes for somatic and parrots for verbal, for example, but those are exceptions.
A lot more than parrots can do surprising things with vocal chords. Even cats can have considerable range of sounds with theirs (and a lot of their vocals, like certain types of meows they develop naturally specific for our (humans) benefit). Ravens can do a lot and can mimic certain sounds even parrots cannot. Noting that as per rules, Verbal components do not have to be words.
So does this mean you allow spellcasting in polymorphed form? Odd choice.
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Again, all of this is irrelevant because this is rules forum not houserule forum. When polymorphed you do not have access to anything on your sheet beyond alignment and your personality (which is not skills and memory - in fact there's a lot of neuroscience behind that difference including the fact that the parts of the brain for skills and knowledge memory is different than the part of the brain for personality. So where you get personality = memory/knowledge/skills idea from is weird because it's certainly not real world).
Everything else - including class, and the feats gained from it - are replaced by the statblock of the beast. That's the RAW. So why you're trying to nitpick your way to some non-RAW idea in the Rules forum, all based on some half-arsed notion that's not backed by anything in-game or out-of-game... Is weird, to put it politely.
Even the rules designers disagree with you, as determined by Sage Advice.
Can a creature under the effects of polymorph have other spell effects on them, or are those game statistics also replaced by the those of the beast form?
Polymorphreplaces only the target’s character sheet or stat block with the stat block of the chosen form. Other effects, such as other spells, still exist.
It does not replace the entire character sheet. Otherwise, the personality is gone too. The name is gone. The question being answered in that sage advice is not even in context with the question we are discussing.
I was agreeing that spellcasting is not possible with just the regular polymorph spell and trying to say 'side cases notwithstanding.' I was not making any arguments that paws are equivalent to hands for spellcasting or for any other purposes. Sorry if I was unclear.
Polymorph replaces the entire character sheet with the stat block for the beast except alignment and "personality". They don't retain knowledge of spells, they don't retain the ability to reason logically unless the intelligence of the beast form is sufficient to allow it.
"The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality."
If the character retained their knowledge and the ability to use it (as you suggested in an earlier post) then based on your reasoning a polymorphed sorcerer could cast subtle spells while polymorphed since they have no components. They don't require either verbal or somatic components and in some cases don't need a material component though even if they did the creature might be able to touch a material component or wear it around its neck.
Personality is defined as "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." eg "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging". What a person is like and their attitude towards other creatures does not mean that the creature retains memory or even the ability to understand those memories if they did retain them.
Folks are free to run it however they like, but polymorph has some cool benefits and some very significant drawbacks.
Memory or "personality" provides no loopholes here; polymorph, true polymorph etc. explicitly replace your game statistics, which means it replaces your class features, racial traits and feats, and Spellcasting (or Pact Magic) are class features so they're always replaced.
Just because you might "remember" a spell doesn't mean you retain the ability to cast it; Wizards may perform magic by learning how to manipulate the weave, but there is clearly still some physical ability required to do that or literally everyone with decent intelligence would be casting spells, and that aptitude, awareness or whatever else is required to "touch" the Weave is lost unless the monster you're changing into also has it (in which case it'll be listed on its stat block).
Also in rules terms personality isn't really part of your character sheet, except perhaps as the bonds/flaws etc., it's not a mechanical element of the character, unlike features which are explicitly part of the sheet, and are replaced.
There is no rule at all defining 'memory' as a separate stat, nor defining 'personality' as including or or excluding memory, nor even defining personality at all.
I don't think there's any reason to assume that general memory would be lost, since it's not part of the game statistics, so it might as well be part of personality (as people who do have amnesia can see their personality shift dramatically as for them the experiences that informed their behaviour essentially no longer exist).
But memory in this case would be limited only to things that aren't explicitly part of your character sheet; it's remembering people and places, who you are etc., as the skills, spells etc. are gone no matter what. You might remember various religions in the new form, but your ability to recall them in detail is limited by the reduced skill, you may not be able to use the knowledge as effectively (you might remember how to smith a sword, but even as a monkey it'll be more difficult because you're not quite the same shape, any muscle memory you have is for literally a different configuration of muscles etc.).
How exactly this applies to skills is going to be DM dependent; some have players roll for everything, but I'm not a fan of that as IMO a character should know what they would know, and you should only roll for recalling obscure details or things that you might not know. So a character with religion proficiency should always know more about general religion than a character without, and while there's a chance a character without might know something obscure, it should be a much lower chance than for the specialist.
How that idea applies to being an animal gets a bit abstract, but I think of it as being a difference in how you think as that animal; maybe you're no longer as good at recall, so something you might indeed know may not be easy to remember when you need it, but you may recall it when you change back.
Regarding this part:
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
For me "hands or speech" doesn't read like it's an exhaustive list, you can absolutely be limited by a form in other ways. There was a great example in Critical Role campaign 2 when Jester turned into a moth to spy on someone, but Matt Mercer had her roll to see if she could remain on task with its low Intelligence, and she rolled so badly she couldn't resist munching on a curtain instead.
While that's very much DM interpretation, a low Intelligence creature really should struggle to enact a grand strategy, or interpret complex concepts, even if it remembers what they are in theory. This isn't Wildshape where you retain your mental ability scores, so a temporary loss (or gain) in Intelligence, Wisdom and/or Charisma can impact what you're trying to do in the new form (and likewise, should affect enemies that are forcibly changed as well).
This is one of those situations where trying to apply real-world science is less realistic than handwaving. In Dungeons and Dragons, personality and memory are inextricably entwined with a soul that can be observed and interacted with directly under the right conditions. I don't think that rule is compatible with applying real-life neuroscience or psychology to determine how they interact. Better in this case to start with the rule you want to use and just declare that's how the world works.
That said, polymorphed creatures retain at least enough memory for continuity of thought, or they could not continue concentrating on a spell (they can, according to SAC). I would extrapolate this to allow the character to recall their immediate thoughts, such as "I'm fleeing from a fight," "I wanted to attack the one on the left," or "I'll wait a moment for my friend Bob to climb on my back." Honestly, I'd allow that anyway, but I think the SAC rule makes it in line with RAW.
(I'd also let them retain a crude sort of memory, as well. As others have shown, the designers felt they should remember who friends and enemies are. I'd let them recall their home if they have one and feel emotional responses to things with strong memories attached. I don't pretend that's RAW, though, just a combination of designer intent, player expectations, and narrative usefulness.)
As for limitations on actions based on reduced intelligence and wisdom, that is likely different thread-worthy, since it is a pretty deep topic in its own right. However, even for a pure wizard, there is no actual Int minimum. They would only be able to prepare one spell at a time, but a Player seems completely free, RAW, to make an Int 3 Wizard.
Just to clarify, but when I mentioned Intelligence I meant more generally rather than specifically with regards to spellcasting; you can't cast spells because when you replace game statistics you lose your Spellcasting (or Pact Magic) feature, so the Intelligence doesn't matter for that because you can't attempt what you simply cannot do. The only exception is if you true polymorph into something with spellcasting, but in that case you're gaining a new casting feature to replace the one you had, so you're limited by what the new one allows.
I also feel like I may have confused my original point; my first post came after one of yours but I wasn't specifically replying to it, just giving my thoughts on the general topic of what is included in "personality" since it seemed to have drifted onto whether that constitutes memory as well but since memory is never actually mentioned in the rules then "memory as personality" can only cover things that aren't being explicitly replaced (game statistics).
This is one of those situations where trying to apply real-world science is less realistic than handwaving.
It's less about applying science and more applying meaning; the word "personality" is whatever makes you uniquely you, but the rule treats it as separate from game statistics, so your physical strength, skill with weapons etc. clearly don't count (or replacing your game statistics would be meaningless). So we're only looking at what parts of your personality remain when all of your ability scores, class features etc. have been stripped away.
Morality has its own exception thanks to alignment, meanwhile bonds/flaws etc. are the only "personality" that's explicitly on the sheet but those don't really mean much on their own (they're more like prompts to help remind you who your character is). I think it's reasonable for memory to be included otherwise there'd be no point in polymorphing yourself or allies if they forget what they were doing or why, though I think it's fun to play with low Intelligence as struggling to stay on task.
To be absolutely clear, I'm not arguing that retaining memory allows for any specific mechanical benefit beyond general purpose remembering of (some) things; I'm arguing that it's not a loophole, so there's no free lunch (spellcasting) just because you remember lunch (spellcasting) exists. 😉
Morality has its own exception thanks to alignment, meanwhile bonds/flaws etc. are the only "personality" that's explicitly on the sheet but those don't really mean much on their own (they're more like prompts to help remind you who your character is). I think it's reasonable for memory to be included otherwise there'd be no point in polymorphing yourself or allies if they forget what they were doing or why, though I think it's fun to play with low Intelligence as struggling to stay on task.
Yeah, I agree with you. It's very reasonable, and it's important to consider player expectations pretty heavily in these things. It's a fair interpretation and not far from how I'd decide - but I shouldn't have suggested it's not RAW. I was really kind of focused on puzzling out D&D's approach to memory and personality and got working out my thought process in writing, not thinking about you reading it as a reply. Apologies. Really I don't think the strictest possible reading is always the best way to determine RAW - 5th Edition seems to ask for a more hermenuetic approach - but it's where I like to start.
Polymorph replaces the entire character sheet with the stat block for the beast except alignment and "personality". They don't retain knowledge of spells, they don't retain the ability to reason logically unless the intelligence of the beast form is sufficient to allow it.
"The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality."
If the character retained their knowledge and the ability to use it (as you suggested in an earlier post) then based on your reasoning a polymorphed sorcerer could cast subtle spells while polymorphed since they have no components. They don't require either verbal or somatic components and in some cases don't need a material component though even if they did the creature might be able to touch a material component or wear it around its neck.
Personality is defined as "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." eg "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging". What a person is like and their attitude towards other creatures does not mean that the creature retains memory or even the ability to understand those memories if they did retain them.
Folks are free to run it however they like, but polymorph has some cool benefits and some very significant drawbacks.
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Memory and knowledge, though... I consider that part of personality. Without retaining memory, how does one retain personality? What does 'personality' mean in that context? The spell does not say it makes the person a complete amnesiac. You lose ability to cast and likely also lose the ability to understand things you remember (which would also likely be a reason for no casting) but if you remember who your friends are, then presumably you have memories of other things too.
Also if memory was the reason the target can no longer cast spells, then this paragraph seems completely redundant:
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
If the reason was lack of memory, then whether the target now has hands or not would be irrelevant. They would have lost all their training and thus the ability to cast even if they did have hands. If they have lost the ability to take actions that require hands or speech, it implies they have retained the ability to take actions that do not require hands or speech, such as use of the mobility feat.
In terms of how you can have personality without memory, although I am far from knowledgeable in the area, in the real world, a person experiencing amnesia may retain the same personality without being able to remember who they are or why they might be the way they are ... though that may be just my mistaken impression of it. In such a case, personality can be distinct from the memories that created that personality.
In the case of polymorph, the reason may not be memory per se, but the inability to understand those memories, what they mean and how to apply them. A creature polymorphed into a dog or cat has an intelligence of 3. Even if the polymorphed character might remember something about casting spells, they lack the mental ability to appropriately apply that knowledge in an intelligent and reasoned way.
In relation to your second remark, it seems to me that the rules may just be making it clear what the polymorphed character is incapable of doing.
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
The last item applies EVEN if the form of the beast that they take on HAS hands or IS capable of speech. (The spell description does not say they can take actions requiring hands or speech if the beast form is capable of those actions - the spell says that the polymorphed character CAN'T take any other action that might require hands or speech).
Also, depending on how that list of items is read, they can all be separate -
- they can't speak
- they can't cast spells
- they can't take any other action that requires hands or speech (even if the beast form they are polymorphed into might have hands or be capable of speech - like an ape).
The spell description does not state explicitly why the character is incapable of these things but the spell says they can't. For example, a character polymorphed into an ape can NOT walk up and open a door, not because the form is not capable of doing so (an ape has hands that can manipulate things) but for some other reason - perhaps the character no longer knows how to open a door or no longer remembers how to apply their knowledge about opening doors. Similarly, the character polymorphed into an ape can't pick up a weapon and start wielding it - NOT because the ape isn't capable of holding a weapon (it has hands and could probably hold most weapons) but because the character can no longer apply their knowledge of weapons in the new form.
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Duration accepted, why is Feeblemind way up at 8th, when Polymorph seems to have the same effect plus a lot more?
Because of the duration; a polymorphed creature turns back if it takes enough damage or the caster's concentration is interrupted, by comparison feeblemind is effectively permanent, especially considering that scores of 1 might make it impossible to succeed upon the save.
True polymorph is more comparable at 9th-level because you could turn the target into an object incapable of attacking the caster or harming itself to switch back, but even that's harder to guarantee if the enemy has allies who can attack the caster or damage the object, and at 9th-level you might as well just take wish and wish for feeble mind. 😉
Once feeblemind lands the only way to reliably get rid of it is to have an ally with one of the spells that can get rid of it.
With polymorph, you can turn a target into a garden slug, pick it up and bury it 20' deep, or even in a flask which you then fill with water or alcohol, drowning the target without doing any hp damage to change revert it back in time to save itself. The mental stat reduction is incidental to that, rather than the main effect. So, is it really intended to make that reduction as powerful as it can be, in and of itself?
There's no monster profile for a garden slug, so unless your DM wants to create one on the fly you have no game statistics to replace the target's; also, drowning/suffocation drops a target to 0 hit-points so they would revert, so I'm not sure what you mine by "revert it back in time to save itself" here? If you mean it will take them time to revert back, you'd still need to be prepared in advance, and to actually grapple and place the creature in the container which are additional actions in their own right.
If your goal is just to take a target out of a fight, then polymorph into a frog (which can't attack) is broadly similar to banishment, but that's not what feeblemind does. Feeblemind potentially takes a target out of the fight forever, or at least for 30 days, with no risk of your concentration being broken. You can rob a lich of the ability to cast magic, turning them from a significant threat into a mewling weak little baby, with no fear of their zombie minions snapping them out of it (if they can even retain control of their zombies, a DM's call depending on how they were created).
Ok, a quipper then, on dry land. And if they are buried 20' deep they are buried 20' deep still suffocating, even if they did revert back conscious. And Move Earth can handle a 40' deep pit, so having one prepared in advance is not that hard, if the fight is outdoors and you have any chance to prep. For a faster pit, disintegrate. For a slower pit, shovels.
So again it takes more preparation and additional factors; if you only care about taking something out of a fight temporarily then a banishment would be easier unless they've got a really high Charisma save. Because that quipper only needs to lose one hit-point (it could simply attack itself if your DM is feeling mean), and move earth takes time to either setup, or do after transforming. Also I'm not sure how you're using disintegrate to dig pits, if your DM even allows treating the ground as "an object" you would still only destroy 10 foot cube per casting.
And the issue is still a matter of duration; with polymorph you have at most an hour, with feeblemind they can't cast for a minimum of 30 days, in both cases without intervention. And intervention is likewise a major component; for feeblemind for an ally to help requires greater restoration, heal or wish (the only three spells in the game that can reverse it), for polymorph all that's required is for an ally to give either the caster or polymorphed creature enough of a kicking, if they can't do it themselves.
For the lich with zombies they don't necessarily need to be able to given new orders if the existing orders (e.g- "kill them all") are still being carried out, because attacking the caster will interrupt polymorph just fine. And a smart lich probably try to give the order to attack it if it's transformed if it's not the first time the players have tried to change them (though yeah, it's debatable if zombies can understand an instruction that complex).
To be clear, I'm not saying polymorph can't give a similar result depending upon your needs, and it's the more versatile spell, but feeblemind is a more powerful spell with good reason, because once it's done it's done. No concentration required, spell duration, and reversing it is difficult if not impossible compared to kicking a quipper to death or casting dispel magic.
If the DM is going to decide to ensure that polymorph will fail, even when the party has done set up and despite the save making it a long shot against something like a lich, they will almost certainly do the same about banishment, feeblemind, or pretty much any other such spells.
A polymorphed creature is perfectly entitled to try and do whatever it can to turn back, a banished creature doesn't have any such option. I'm not saying I encourage DM's to do that, but it's one of the limitations of the spell and why turning an enemy into the weakest creature isn't always the best idea.
You can't just assume the best case scenario for using it, you have to also consider the worst case, especially since you're the one that wanted to compare it to feeblemind; if you don't also compare worst cases then you're not really comparing them at all.
The worst case for feeblemind is that the target has a friend with greater restoration handy to undo it (similar to an ally having dispel magic vs. polymorph), or knows where to find one. Otherwise the second worst case is the target succeeds on the first repeat saving throw in 30 days. Even for an intelligent creature like a lich that's not all that likely as +7 proficiency still only gives a +3 for Intelligence saving throws once its Intelligence is set to 1, so a 30% chance at DC 18, 25% for DC 19, 20% for DC 20 etc.
It's a contradiction to say you still have the same personality, but your int is reduced to 1. There just isn't room for your original personality in an int 1 mind. More importantly, where's the fun in that?
As a DM I would always avoid taking away agency from a player by saying something like: "You can't do that! You are currently a squirrel, and a squirrel could never have thought of it.". And generally if I wouldn't do it to an NPC either. On the contrary if someone gets transformed into a squirrel I would hope they'd work really hard at pursuing their original goals using a squirrel body until they could get their own body back. They might even decide the being a squirrel was an advantage they wanted to keep.
Recent understanding of the human mind seems to head in the direction of us having (at least) two minds. There's the rational self, and then there's the animal/emotional self. These seem to correspond to the neocortex and the paleocortex or mid-brain. Your appetites, your loves and hates, your basic ethics are in the animal self. That's where most of your actions start. Your memories are in the rational self, whose most important function is to examine the planned actions which come up from the animal self and evaluate the cost and benefit of the predicted outcome.
So the ways I intend to work it is to assume that, when you're transformed, you get the animal self of the animal. That means your emotional responses are likely to be those of the animal (fortunately animals have friends and enemies too). Rational goals and deliberative thinking remain intact.. We don't have direct conscious access to the animal self anyway.
You'd still feel friendship towards individuals, but probably not emotions like disgust or reverence. If you spend a lot of time as a particular animal, I'd expect some leakage back into your primary personality. For example my character who spent a couple of months as a squirrel, as an admission test to the druids, may be a bit nervous of owls for the rest of his life.
What would that do to stats? I'd leave INT alone while WIS and CHA are the average of the person and the animal.
Polymorph replaces the entire character sheet with the stat block for the beast except alignment and "personality". They don't retain knowledge of spells, they don't retain the ability to reason logically unless the intelligence of the beast form is sufficient to allow it.
"The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality."
If the character retained their knowledge and the ability to use it (as you suggested in an earlier post) then based on your reasoning a polymorphed sorcerer could cast subtle spells while polymorphed since they have no components. They don't require either verbal or somatic components and in some cases don't need a material component though even if they did the creature might be able to touch a material component or wear it around its neck.
Personality is defined as "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." eg "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging". What a person is like and their attitude towards other creatures does not mean that the creature retains memory or even the ability to understand those memories if they did retain them.
Folks are free to run it however they like, but polymorph has some cool benefits and some very significant drawbacks.
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Memory and knowledge, though... I consider that part of personality. Without retaining memory, how does one retain personality? What does 'personality' mean in that context? The spell does not say it makes the person a complete amnesiac. You lose ability to cast and likely also lose the ability to understand things you remember (which would also likely be a reason for no casting) but if you remember who your friends are, then presumably you have memories of other things too.
Also if memory was the reason the target can no longer cast spells, then this paragraph seems completely redundant:
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
If the reason was lack of memory, then whether the target now has hands or not would be irrelevant. They would have lost all their training and thus the ability to cast even if they did have hands. If they have lost the ability to take actions that require hands or speech, it implies they have retained the ability to take actions that do not require hands or speech, such as use of the mobility feat.
In terms of how you can have personality without memory, although I am far from knowledgeable in the area, in the real world, a person experiencing amnesia may retain the same personality without being able to remember who they are or why they might be the way they are ... though that may be just my mistaken impression of it. In such a case, personality can be distinct from the memories that created that personality.
In the case of polymorph, the reason may not be memory per se, but the inability to understand those memories, what they mean and how to apply them. A creature polymorphed into a dog or cat has an intelligence of 3. Even if the polymorphed character might remember something about casting spells, they lack the mental ability to appropriately apply that knowledge in an intelligent and reasoned way.
In relation to your second remark, it seems to me that the rules may just be making it clear what the polymorphed character is incapable of doing.
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
The last item applies EVEN if the form of the beast that they take on HAS hands or IS capable of speech. (The spell description does not say they can take actions requiring hands or speech if the beast form is capable of those actions - the spell says that the polymorphed character CAN'T take any other action that might require hands or speech).
Also, depending on how that list of items is read, they can all be separate -
- they can't speak
- they can't cast spells
- they can't take any other action that requires hands or speech (even if the beast form they are polymorphed into might have hands or be capable of speech - like an ape).
The spell description does not state explicitly why the character is incapable of these things but the spell says they can't. For example, a character polymorphed into an ape can NOT walk up and open a door, not because the form is not capable of doing so (an ape has hands that can manipulate things) but for some other reason - perhaps the character no longer knows how to open a door or no longer remembers how to apply their knowledge about opening doors. Similarly, the character polymorphed into an ape can't pick up a weapon and start wielding it - NOT because the ape isn't capable of holding a weapon (it has hands and could probably hold most weapons) but because the character can no longer apply their knowledge of weapons in the new form.
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
But what of True Polymorph, which has the same clause? If an Human is turned into an Elf, do they become a generic Elf per the Monster Manual, as if that is a separate race from 'Elf?'
Duration accepted, why is Feeblemind way up at 8th, when Polymorph seems to have the same effect plus a lot more?
Late noticing this but True Polymorph does not have the same wording as Polymorph.
True Polymorph: "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions."
Polymorph: "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
The rule in Polymorph does not contain an exception for forms that are capable of such actions.
Feeblemind is not broken by damage. Polymorph ends if the creature is reduced to zero hit points in their changed form. Feeblemind lasts at least 30 days or until dispelled or countered by a much higher level spell than is needed for Polymorph which lasts at most an hour. Polymorph is a wisdom save and Feeblemind is an intelligence save. A feebleminded creature has a much more limited choice of actions they can take than a Polymorphed creature which gets all the actions, attacks and abilities of the polymorphed form. A Polymorphed form could be much more intelligent than a feebleminded creature (eg giant ape). There are actually quite a number of reasons that could account for Feeblemind being a level 8 spell vs level 4 for polymorph.
Polymorph: "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
But does that mean someone polymorphed into a lamb cannot even bleat? Or that Speak With Animals would not allow communication with them, even though they are now a beast?
What about telepathy?
Up to the DM honestly.
The way I run it, the character has the stats of the beast they are transformed into so you aren't going to get a very meaningful conversation having a chat with an intelligence 2 or 3 beast, as much as you might get using speak with animals on any other beast. If someone tries to talk to the lamb and says bleat once for yes and twice for no then you have to ask does the lamb even know what yes and no are? It doesn't understand the language being spoken to it (unless their happens to be languages listed in its stat block). It retains its personality and alignment, understands who its friends are but is otherwise very limited in terms of any reasoned action it can take (that is how I interpret the Intelligence stat from the PHB "Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason.").
The telepathy spell has a specific rider indicating that any creature can understand the meaning of your words and sensory images.
"The spell enables a creature with an Intelligence score of at least 1 to understand the meaning of your words and take in the scope of any sensory messages you send to it."
However, many telepathic abilities, like the aberrant mind sorcerer, require a shared language "To understand each other, you each must speak mentally in a language the other knows.". In this case, unless there is a language listed in the beast stat block - it doesn't know any languages.
Running it this way is consistent with RAW as I read it. However, what personality means in the context of D&D is not defined so it is a DM call as to what personality means in this context.
Does personality include knowledge? I would tend to say no since the spell also says that the stat block of the creature is completely replaced by that of the beast. The stat block of the beast specifically lists which languages and proficiencies the beast has access to - the character has these abilities which are listed on the beast stat block. The character does not have access to proficiencies and languages, and by extension, any other knowledge, that is listed on the character's sheet.
However, I can easily see a different DM interpreting what "personality" means to them in a different fashion and that will guide their rulings about how polymorph works in their game.
As for limitations on actions based on reduced intelligence and wisdom, that is likely different thread-worthy, since it is a pretty deep topic in its own right. However, even for a pure wizard, there is no actual Int minimum. They would only be able to prepare one spell at a time, but a Player seems completely free, RAW, to make an Int 3 Wizard.
Just to clarify, but when I mentioned Intelligence I meant more generally rather than specifically with regards to spellcasting; you can't cast spells because when you replace game statistics you lose your Spellcasting (or Pact Magic) feature, so the Intelligence doesn't matter for that because you can't attempt what you simply cannot do. The only exception is if you true polymorph into something with spellcasting, but in that case you're gaining a new casting feature to replace the one you had, so you're limited by what the new one allows.
I also feel like I may have confused my original point; my first post came after one of yours but I wasn't specifically replying to it, just giving my thoughts on the general topic of what is included in "personality" since it seemed to have drifted onto whether that constitutes memory as well but since memory is never actually mentioned in the rules then "memory as personality" can only cover things that aren't being explicitly replaced (game statistics).
This is one of those situations where trying to apply real-world science is less realistic than handwaving.
It's less about applying science and more applying meaning; the word "personality" is whatever makes you uniquely you, but the rule treats it as separate from game statistics, so your physical strength, skill with weapons etc. clearly don't count (or replacing your game statistics would be meaningless). So we're only looking at what parts of your personality remain when all of your ability scores, class features etc. have been stripped away.
Morality has its own exception thanks to alignment, meanwhile bonds/flaws etc. are the only "personality" that's explicitly on the sheet but those don't really mean much on their own (they're more like prompts to help remind you who your character is). I think it's reasonable for memory to be included otherwise there'd be no point in polymorphing yourself or allies if they forget what they were doing or why, though I think it's fun to play with low Intelligence as struggling to stay on task.
To be absolutely clear, I'm not arguing that retaining memory allows for any specific mechanical benefit beyond general purpose remembering of (some) things; I'm arguing that it's not a loophole, so there's no free lunch (spellcasting) just because you remember lunch (spellcasting) exists. 😉
From what I understand, you're claiming that a character's spellcasting ability is inherently tied to their (now lost) physical form. However, that interpretation does not apply, for example, to Divine Soul Sorcerer. I think that the in-world explanation is that the character's new physical form is preventing verbal and somatic spellcasting for similar reasons that spellcasters are not allowed to use armor they're not proficient in. One struggles to bring out enough finesse from their new form.
Now about whether a character is capable of understanding spellcasting with their new stat block, I would like to bring up a perfect example, a beast that can inherently cast spells. According to angry golem games (I don't have the source book for that specimen on me), cranium rats not only are capable of spellcasting but also have a very specific intelligence threshold of at least 7 (for lvl1 spells) . Now if we look at the list of creatures I found while researching this very topic, there are literally only two beast options. One is the aforementioned rat but that requires getting at least 5 other cranium rats in proximity. Also, make sure those are not the ones from an actual lawful evil swarm, loyal to illithids. Would hate to become a part of a very antagonistic hivemind. Unless if you're playing an illithid adventuring party but then you probably also despise sorcery. The other one is a giant ape which is CR 7. After comparing its stats to an average lvl 7 barbarian, I can see why it's so popular to rule you can only polymorph into creatures your character knows enough about.
From what I understand, you're claiming that a character's spellcasting ability is inherently tied to their (now lost) physical form.
You lose the Spellcasting feature because the spell says you replace your game statistics with those of the creature you are turned into, and Spellcasting is part of your game statistics, so it's replaced along with everything else.
What the actual narrative reason for losing the spellcasting is is up to you, but it's a spell, it's magic, it does what it says it does, the how and why don't really matter. But I would say that spellcasting must have some physical component even for a divine caster like a Cleric or Divine Soul Sorcerer, whatever provides a physical conduit between you and your deity for the purposes of spellcasting is lost while transformed.
I wouldn't try to rationalise at as only lacking access to components because that only invites players to try to argue around being transformed; if a sorcerer's casting survives transformation, then why not their Metamagic? With Metamagic they could use Subtle Spell to ignore components and cast anyway… it's basically opening yourself up to problems you don't need.
It's almost always better to keep it simple; the spell says your game statistics are replaced, so they're replaced.
Now about whether a character is capable of understanding spellcasting with their new stat block
There's a difference between understanding spellcasting, and being able to cast spells; any creature can attempt an Arcana check to understand spellcasting, and if we assume a creature retains its memory when transformed it should still remember everything it knows about how to cast spells, how they work etc., it just can't do it. Any character can potentially learn these things, a commoner could dedicate their life to learning about casting magic, but knowing the details doesn't mean they can actually do it.
Having a spellcasting feature is the actual ability to cast spells and use magic. There are a handful of creatures available to polymorph that have some kind of spellcasting ability, you mentioned the cranium rat but these don't have spellcasting by default, however there is one I can remember off-hand which is the deep rothé as it can cast dancing lights. But that's all it can cast, because your knowledge of how you used to be able to cast fireball doesn't do anything for you in deep rothé form.
There are obviously a lot more options via true polymorph, but the same rules apply; you lose your own Spellcasting feature and replace it with that of the creature (if it has one). So you can only cast what it can cast – you might know about what you used to be able to cast, but you can't do it unless the new creature can.
1) No.
2) DM's call. Arguments can be made either way and not defined clearly either way. In my view, you remain petrified.
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1) You retain NOTHING from your character except alignment and personality. The personality means that you won't eat your friends but that is about it, otherwise your character is completely replaced by the stat block of the beast/creature that you are polymorphed into.
2) I'd rule that you remain petrified. The petrified condition is not dependent on the form of the creature petrified. It is the same creature when polymorphed, it is just in a different form. Nothing in polymorph indicates that the creature loses any conditions when the polymorph ends. If they were poisoned, they would remain poisoned. If they were stunned, they would remain stunned and if they were petrified, they would remain petrified.
If the polymorph ends before the petrification then I'd rule the stone form retains the shape it had when petrified but when the petrification ends it immediately resumes its original form. A DM could rule that the petrified form might change shape but there is nothing in polymorph to indicate that any conditions imposed on the polymorphed shape would end when the spell ends.
Your stats are replaced by the beast statblock. That includes feats which are a result of class features. Trying to really overstretch wordplay to get around this is just silly. If you're going that route, then polymorphed peeps can cast S component only spells like Catapult - as spellcasting for some, like Wizards, is just knowledge they have after all and any beast form with a paw can provide a S component (which can be a simple gesture).
Nah, going out of bounds there.
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Who defines correct? The rules do not. A gesture can be as simple as pointing. I have no idea why you're mentioning sign language. And you can become a monkey - which does have hands.
A lot more than parrots can do surprising things with vocal chords. Even cats can have considerable range of sounds with theirs (and a lot of their vocals, like certain types of meows they develop naturally specific for our (humans) benefit). Ravens can do a lot and can mimic certain sounds even parrots cannot. Noting that as per rules, Verbal components do not have to be words.
So does this mean you allow spellcasting in polymorphed form? Odd choice.
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Again, all of this is irrelevant because this is rules forum not houserule forum. When polymorphed you do not have access to anything on your sheet beyond alignment and your personality (which is not skills and memory - in fact there's a lot of neuroscience behind that difference including the fact that the parts of the brain for skills and knowledge memory is different than the part of the brain for personality. So where you get personality = memory/knowledge/skills idea from is weird because it's certainly not real world).
Everything else - including class, and the feats gained from it - are replaced by the statblock of the beast. That's the RAW. So why you're trying to nitpick your way to some non-RAW idea in the Rules forum, all based on some half-arsed notion that's not backed by anything in-game or out-of-game... Is weird, to put it politely.
Even the rules designers disagree with you, as determined by Sage Advice.
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Polymorph replaces the entire character sheet with the stat block for the beast except alignment and "personality". They don't retain knowledge of spells, they don't retain the ability to reason logically unless the intelligence of the beast form is sufficient to allow it.
"The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality."
If the character retained their knowledge and the ability to use it (as you suggested in an earlier post) then based on your reasoning a polymorphed sorcerer could cast subtle spells while polymorphed since they have no components. They don't require either verbal or somatic components and in some cases don't need a material component though even if they did the creature might be able to touch a material component or wear it around its neck.
Personality is defined as "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." eg "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging". What a person is like and their attitude towards other creatures does not mean that the creature retains memory or even the ability to understand those memories if they did retain them.
Folks are free to run it however they like, but polymorph has some cool benefits and some very significant drawbacks.
Memory or "personality" provides no loopholes here; polymorph, true polymorph etc. explicitly replace your game statistics, which means it replaces your class features, racial traits and feats, and Spellcasting (or Pact Magic) are class features so they're always replaced.
Just because you might "remember" a spell doesn't mean you retain the ability to cast it; Wizards may perform magic by learning how to manipulate the weave, but there is clearly still some physical ability required to do that or literally everyone with decent intelligence would be casting spells, and that aptitude, awareness or whatever else is required to "touch" the Weave is lost unless the monster you're changing into also has it (in which case it'll be listed on its stat block).
Also in rules terms personality isn't really part of your character sheet, except perhaps as the bonds/flaws etc., it's not a mechanical element of the character, unlike features which are explicitly part of the sheet, and are replaced.
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I don't think there's any reason to assume that general memory would be lost, since it's not part of the game statistics, so it might as well be part of personality (as people who do have amnesia can see their personality shift dramatically as for them the experiences that informed their behaviour essentially no longer exist).
But memory in this case would be limited only to things that aren't explicitly part of your character sheet; it's remembering people and places, who you are etc., as the skills, spells etc. are gone no matter what. You might remember various religions in the new form, but your ability to recall them in detail is limited by the reduced skill, you may not be able to use the knowledge as effectively (you might remember how to smith a sword, but even as a monkey it'll be more difficult because you're not quite the same shape, any muscle memory you have is for literally a different configuration of muscles etc.).
How exactly this applies to skills is going to be DM dependent; some have players roll for everything, but I'm not a fan of that as IMO a character should know what they would know, and you should only roll for recalling obscure details or things that you might not know. So a character with religion proficiency should always know more about general religion than a character without, and while there's a chance a character without might know something obscure, it should be a much lower chance than for the specialist.
How that idea applies to being an animal gets a bit abstract, but I think of it as being a difference in how you think as that animal; maybe you're no longer as good at recall, so something you might indeed know may not be easy to remember when you need it, but you may recall it when you change back.
Regarding this part:
For me "hands or speech" doesn't read like it's an exhaustive list, you can absolutely be limited by a form in other ways. There was a great example in Critical Role campaign 2 when Jester turned into a moth to spy on someone, but Matt Mercer had her roll to see if she could remain on task with its low Intelligence, and she rolled so badly she couldn't resist munching on a curtain instead.
While that's very much DM interpretation, a low Intelligence creature really should struggle to enact a grand strategy, or interpret complex concepts, even if it remembers what they are in theory. This isn't Wildshape where you retain your mental ability scores, so a temporary loss (or gain) in Intelligence, Wisdom and/or Charisma can impact what you're trying to do in the new form (and likewise, should affect enemies that are forcibly changed as well).
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This is one of those situations where trying to apply real-world science is less realistic than handwaving. In Dungeons and Dragons, personality and memory are inextricably entwined with a soul that can be observed and interacted with directly under the right conditions. I don't think that rule is compatible with applying real-life neuroscience or psychology to determine how they interact. Better in this case to start with the rule you want to use and just declare that's how the world works.
That said, polymorphed creatures retain at least enough memory for continuity of thought, or they could not continue concentrating on a spell (they can, according to SAC). I would extrapolate this to allow the character to recall their immediate thoughts, such as "I'm fleeing from a fight," "I wanted to attack the one on the left," or "I'll wait a moment for my friend Bob to climb on my back." Honestly, I'd allow that anyway, but I think the SAC rule makes it in line with RAW.
(I'd also let them retain a crude sort of memory, as well. As others have shown, the designers felt they should remember who friends and enemies are. I'd let them recall their home if they have one and feel emotional responses to things with strong memories attached. I don't pretend that's RAW, though, just a combination of designer intent, player expectations, and narrative usefulness.)
Just to clarify, but when I mentioned Intelligence I meant more generally rather than specifically with regards to spellcasting; you can't cast spells because when you replace game statistics you lose your Spellcasting (or Pact Magic) feature, so the Intelligence doesn't matter for that because you can't attempt what you simply cannot do. The only exception is if you true polymorph into something with spellcasting, but in that case you're gaining a new casting feature to replace the one you had, so you're limited by what the new one allows.
I also feel like I may have confused my original point; my first post came after one of yours but I wasn't specifically replying to it, just giving my thoughts on the general topic of what is included in "personality" since it seemed to have drifted onto whether that constitutes memory as well but since memory is never actually mentioned in the rules then "memory as personality" can only cover things that aren't being explicitly replaced (game statistics).
It's less about applying science and more applying meaning; the word "personality" is whatever makes you uniquely you, but the rule treats it as separate from game statistics, so your physical strength, skill with weapons etc. clearly don't count (or replacing your game statistics would be meaningless). So we're only looking at what parts of your personality remain when all of your ability scores, class features etc. have been stripped away.
Morality has its own exception thanks to alignment, meanwhile bonds/flaws etc. are the only "personality" that's explicitly on the sheet but those don't really mean much on their own (they're more like prompts to help remind you who your character is). I think it's reasonable for memory to be included otherwise there'd be no point in polymorphing yourself or allies if they forget what they were doing or why, though I think it's fun to play with low Intelligence as struggling to stay on task.
To be absolutely clear, I'm not arguing that retaining memory allows for any specific mechanical benefit beyond general purpose remembering of (some) things; I'm arguing that it's not a loophole, so there's no free lunch (spellcasting) just because you remember lunch (spellcasting) exists. 😉
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Yeah, I agree with you. It's very reasonable, and it's important to consider player expectations pretty heavily in these things. It's a fair interpretation and not far from how I'd decide - but I shouldn't have suggested it's not RAW. I was really kind of focused on puzzling out D&D's approach to memory and personality and got working out my thought process in writing, not thinking about you reading it as a reply. Apologies. Really I don't think the strictest possible reading is always the best way to determine RAW - 5th Edition seems to ask for a more hermenuetic approach - but it's where I like to start.
In terms of how you can have personality without memory, although I am far from knowledgeable in the area, in the real world, a person experiencing amnesia may retain the same personality without being able to remember who they are or why they might be the way they are ... though that may be just my mistaken impression of it. In such a case, personality can be distinct from the memories that created that personality.
In the case of polymorph, the reason may not be memory per se, but the inability to understand those memories, what they mean and how to apply them. A creature polymorphed into a dog or cat has an intelligence of 3. Even if the polymorphed character might remember something about casting spells, they lack the mental ability to appropriately apply that knowledge in an intelligent and reasoned way.
In relation to your second remark, it seems to me that the rules may just be making it clear what the polymorphed character is incapable of doing.
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
The last item applies EVEN if the form of the beast that they take on HAS hands or IS capable of speech. (The spell description does not say they can take actions requiring hands or speech if the beast form is capable of those actions - the spell says that the polymorphed character CAN'T take any other action that might require hands or speech).
Also, depending on how that list of items is read, they can all be separate -
- they can't speak
- they can't cast spells
- they can't take any other action that requires hands or speech (even if the beast form they are polymorphed into might have hands or be capable of speech - like an ape).
The spell description does not state explicitly why the character is incapable of these things but the spell says they can't. For example, a character polymorphed into an ape can NOT walk up and open a door, not because the form is not capable of doing so (an ape has hands that can manipulate things) but for some other reason - perhaps the character no longer knows how to open a door or no longer remembers how to apply their knowledge about opening doors. Similarly, the character polymorphed into an ape can't pick up a weapon and start wielding it - NOT because the ape isn't capable of holding a weapon (it has hands and could probably hold most weapons) but because the character can no longer apply their knowledge of weapons in the new form.
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Because of the duration; a polymorphed creature turns back if it takes enough damage or the caster's concentration is interrupted, by comparison feeblemind is effectively permanent, especially considering that scores of 1 might make it impossible to succeed upon the save.
True polymorph is more comparable at 9th-level because you could turn the target into an object incapable of attacking the caster or harming itself to switch back, but even that's harder to guarantee if the enemy has allies who can attack the caster or damage the object, and at 9th-level you might as well just take wish and wish for feeble mind. 😉
Once feeblemind lands the only way to reliably get rid of it is to have an ally with one of the spells that can get rid of it.
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There's no monster profile for a garden slug, so unless your DM wants to create one on the fly you have no game statistics to replace the target's; also, drowning/suffocation drops a target to 0 hit-points so they would revert, so I'm not sure what you mine by "revert it back in time to save itself" here? If you mean it will take them time to revert back, you'd still need to be prepared in advance, and to actually grapple and place the creature in the container which are additional actions in their own right.
If your goal is just to take a target out of a fight, then polymorph into a frog (which can't attack) is broadly similar to banishment, but that's not what feeblemind does. Feeblemind potentially takes a target out of the fight forever, or at least for 30 days, with no risk of your concentration being broken. You can rob a lich of the ability to cast magic, turning them from a significant threat into a mewling weak little baby, with no fear of their zombie minions snapping them out of it (if they can even retain control of their zombies, a DM's call depending on how they were created).
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So again it takes more preparation and additional factors; if you only care about taking something out of a fight temporarily then a banishment would be easier unless they've got a really high Charisma save. Because that quipper only needs to lose one hit-point (it could simply attack itself if your DM is feeling mean), and move earth takes time to either setup, or do after transforming. Also I'm not sure how you're using disintegrate to dig pits, if your DM even allows treating the ground as "an object" you would still only destroy 10 foot cube per casting.
And the issue is still a matter of duration; with polymorph you have at most an hour, with feeblemind they can't cast for a minimum of 30 days, in both cases without intervention. And intervention is likewise a major component; for feeblemind for an ally to help requires greater restoration, heal or wish (the only three spells in the game that can reverse it), for polymorph all that's required is for an ally to give either the caster or polymorphed creature enough of a kicking, if they can't do it themselves.
For the lich with zombies they don't necessarily need to be able to given new orders if the existing orders (e.g- "kill them all") are still being carried out, because attacking the caster will interrupt polymorph just fine. And a smart lich probably try to give the order to attack it if it's transformed if it's not the first time the players have tried to change them (though yeah, it's debatable if zombies can understand an instruction that complex).
To be clear, I'm not saying polymorph can't give a similar result depending upon your needs, and it's the more versatile spell, but feeblemind is a more powerful spell with good reason, because once it's done it's done. No concentration required, spell duration, and reversing it is difficult if not impossible compared to kicking a quipper to death or casting dispel magic.
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A polymorphed creature is perfectly entitled to try and do whatever it can to turn back, a banished creature doesn't have any such option. I'm not saying I encourage DM's to do that, but it's one of the limitations of the spell and why turning an enemy into the weakest creature isn't always the best idea.
You can't just assume the best case scenario for using it, you have to also consider the worst case, especially since you're the one that wanted to compare it to feeblemind; if you don't also compare worst cases then you're not really comparing them at all.
The worst case for feeblemind is that the target has a friend with greater restoration handy to undo it (similar to an ally having dispel magic vs. polymorph), or knows where to find one. Otherwise the second worst case is the target succeeds on the first repeat saving throw in 30 days. Even for an intelligent creature like a lich that's not all that likely as +7 proficiency still only gives a +3 for Intelligence saving throws once its Intelligence is set to 1, so a 30% chance at DC 18, 25% for DC 19, 20% for DC 20 etc.
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It's a contradiction to say you still have the same personality, but your int is reduced to 1. There just isn't room for your original personality in an int 1 mind. More importantly, where's the fun in that?
As a DM I would always avoid taking away agency from a player by saying something like: "You can't do that! You are currently a squirrel, and a squirrel could never have thought of it.". And generally if I wouldn't do it to an NPC either. On the contrary if someone gets transformed into a squirrel I would hope they'd work really hard at pursuing their original goals using a squirrel body until they could get their own body back. They might even decide the being a squirrel was an advantage they wanted to keep.
Recent understanding of the human mind seems to head in the direction of us having (at least) two minds. There's the rational self, and then there's the animal/emotional self. These seem to correspond to the neocortex and the paleocortex or mid-brain. Your appetites, your loves and hates, your basic ethics are in the animal self. That's where most of your actions start. Your memories are in the rational self, whose most important function is to examine the planned actions which come up from the animal self and evaluate the cost and benefit of the predicted outcome.
So the ways I intend to work it is to assume that, when you're transformed, you get the animal self of the animal. That means your emotional responses are likely to be those of the animal (fortunately animals have friends and enemies too). Rational goals and deliberative thinking remain intact.. We don't have direct conscious access to the animal self anyway.
You'd still feel friendship towards individuals, but probably not emotions like disgust or reverence. If you spend a lot of time as a particular animal, I'd expect some leakage back into your primary personality. For example my character who spent a couple of months as a squirrel, as an admission test to the druids, may be a bit nervous of owls for the rest of his life.
What would that do to stats? I'd leave INT alone while WIS and CHA are the average of the person and the animal.
Some expanded thoughts
Late noticing this but True Polymorph does not have the same wording as Polymorph.
True Polymorph: "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions."
Polymorph: "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
The rule in Polymorph does not contain an exception for forms that are capable of such actions.
Feeblemind is not broken by damage. Polymorph ends if the creature is reduced to zero hit points in their changed form. Feeblemind lasts at least 30 days or until dispelled or countered by a much higher level spell than is needed for Polymorph which lasts at most an hour. Polymorph is a wisdom save and Feeblemind is an intelligence save. A feebleminded creature has a much more limited choice of actions they can take than a Polymorphed creature which gets all the actions, attacks and abilities of the polymorphed form. A Polymorphed form could be much more intelligent than a feebleminded creature (eg giant ape). There are actually quite a number of reasons that could account for Feeblemind being a level 8 spell vs level 4 for polymorph.
Up to the DM honestly.
The way I run it, the character has the stats of the beast they are transformed into so you aren't going to get a very meaningful conversation having a chat with an intelligence 2 or 3 beast, as much as you might get using speak with animals on any other beast. If someone tries to talk to the lamb and says bleat once for yes and twice for no then you have to ask does the lamb even know what yes and no are? It doesn't understand the language being spoken to it (unless their happens to be languages listed in its stat block). It retains its personality and alignment, understands who its friends are but is otherwise very limited in terms of any reasoned action it can take (that is how I interpret the Intelligence stat from the PHB "Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason.").
The telepathy spell has a specific rider indicating that any creature can understand the meaning of your words and sensory images.
"The spell enables a creature with an Intelligence score of at least 1 to understand the meaning of your words and take in the scope of any sensory messages you send to it."
However, many telepathic abilities, like the aberrant mind sorcerer, require a shared language "To understand each other, you each must speak mentally in a language the other knows.". In this case, unless there is a language listed in the beast stat block - it doesn't know any languages.
Running it this way is consistent with RAW as I read it. However, what personality means in the context of D&D is not defined so it is a DM call as to what personality means in this context.
Does personality include knowledge? I would tend to say no since the spell also says that the stat block of the creature is completely replaced by that of the beast. The stat block of the beast specifically lists which languages and proficiencies the beast has access to - the character has these abilities which are listed on the beast stat block. The character does not have access to proficiencies and languages, and by extension, any other knowledge, that is listed on the character's sheet.
However, I can easily see a different DM interpreting what "personality" means to them in a different fashion and that will guide their rulings about how polymorph works in their game.
From what I understand, you're claiming that a character's spellcasting ability is inherently tied to their (now lost) physical form. However, that interpretation does not apply, for example, to Divine Soul Sorcerer. I think that the in-world explanation is that the character's new physical form is preventing verbal and somatic spellcasting for similar reasons that spellcasters are not allowed to use armor they're not proficient in. One struggles to bring out enough finesse from their new form.
Now about whether a character is capable of understanding spellcasting with their new stat block, I would like to bring up a perfect example, a beast that can inherently cast spells. According to angry golem games (I don't have the source book for that specimen on me), cranium rats not only are capable of spellcasting but also have a very specific intelligence threshold of at least 7 (for lvl1 spells) . Now if we look at the list of creatures I found while researching this very topic, there are literally only two beast options. One is the aforementioned rat but that requires getting at least 5 other cranium rats in proximity. Also, make sure those are not the ones from an actual lawful evil swarm, loyal to illithids. Would hate to become a part of a very antagonistic hivemind. Unless if you're playing an illithid adventuring party but then you probably also despise sorcery. The other one is a giant ape which is CR 7. After comparing its stats to an average lvl 7 barbarian, I can see why it's so popular to rule you can only polymorph into creatures your character knows enough about.
You lose the Spellcasting feature because the spell says you replace your game statistics with those of the creature you are turned into, and Spellcasting is part of your game statistics, so it's replaced along with everything else.
What the actual narrative reason for losing the spellcasting is is up to you, but it's a spell, it's magic, it does what it says it does, the how and why don't really matter. But I would say that spellcasting must have some physical component even for a divine caster like a Cleric or Divine Soul Sorcerer, whatever provides a physical conduit between you and your deity for the purposes of spellcasting is lost while transformed.
I wouldn't try to rationalise at as only lacking access to components because that only invites players to try to argue around being transformed; if a sorcerer's casting survives transformation, then why not their Metamagic? With Metamagic they could use Subtle Spell to ignore components and cast anyway… it's basically opening yourself up to problems you don't need.
It's almost always better to keep it simple; the spell says your game statistics are replaced, so they're replaced.
There's a difference between understanding spellcasting, and being able to cast spells; any creature can attempt an Arcana check to understand spellcasting, and if we assume a creature retains its memory when transformed it should still remember everything it knows about how to cast spells, how they work etc., it just can't do it. Any character can potentially learn these things, a commoner could dedicate their life to learning about casting magic, but knowing the details doesn't mean they can actually do it.
Having a spellcasting feature is the actual ability to cast spells and use magic. There are a handful of creatures available to polymorph that have some kind of spellcasting ability, you mentioned the cranium rat but these don't have spellcasting by default, however there is one I can remember off-hand which is the deep rothé as it can cast dancing lights. But that's all it can cast, because your knowledge of how you used to be able to cast fireball doesn't do anything for you in deep rothé form.
There are obviously a lot more options via true polymorph, but the same rules apply; you lose your own Spellcasting feature and replace it with that of the creature (if it has one). So you can only cast what it can cast – you might know about what you used to be able to cast, but you can't do it unless the new creature can.
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