IMO the illusion would hold and the outward appearance would not change even though underneath the character had changed into another form as long as the new form is the same size category, say a medium sized ape as opposed to a giant ape (huge). Someone say, feeling your arm while you were in your normal form would feel an elf's arm regardless of what the illusion of your arm looked like, whereas after the polymorph they would feel a hairy ape arm despite the illusionary appearance having not changed. The disguise self having been cast initially on a medium sized creature would not be able to sustain a convincing illusion to conceal the change in size from medium to huge and so, I would simply rule that while the illusion still exists, everyone can see it for what it is (i.e. an illusion failing to conceal a giant ape).
I've been thinking about this spell recently, so here's some of my thoughts.
To produce the effects as per the description it makes far more sense as a substitution than an actual transformation. So the original body is parked on some kind of timeless demi-plane, an animal summoning is effected and the original mind/soul/consciousness is transferred to the animal. At termination the animal is unsummoned and the original body pops back into reality.
Everything within the aura of the critter affected is swapped, thus explaining the clothes included thing. So if I turn myself into a horse, and someone saddles me, the saddle will go wherever unsummoned beasts go, until the next time I turn into a horse. Likewise something the beast is holding in its mouth. That's symmetry. This also creates interesting ways of hiding stuff.
For health and safety reasons both the summoned animal, and the original body appear in the nearest volume of space which is large enough to contain them.
There's a contradiction in the statement that personality and alignment remain the same, but mental stats are replaced. How can you have the same personality if your int is reduced to 1? There isn't room for a human personality in int 1. How about your rational self is preserved and you can still do deliberative thought but your instincts become those of the animal?
Animals can definitely maintain concentration. Ever ate a snack while your dog was watching you?
We might want to consider a ruling that, if you turn into the same species again, you get the same individual animal complete with any acquired conditions from last time. Injuries, spells, parasites, whatever. So someone who has seen you as a whatever before can recognise you
Individual characteristics within the variability of the species are mapped. If you are big for a hobbit, you'll be big for a cat. If you're blond, you'll be a white cat.
Monkish Ki powers should still work in animal form. They are spiritual powers which don't require words or anything, and beside it sounds like fun.
Bards should still be able to use their powers if they take the form of songbirds.
Polymorph, even as specified, could be a game breaker. Consider:
The Bard crawls across the roof of the wooden meed-hall of the hill giants. He locates the point directly above the royal throne. He levitates 30' above it. He turns himself into a hippopotamus, or possibly a sperm-whale. He picks the mangled crown out of the wreckage and levitates to safety through the gaping hole in the roof.
Who needs a high CR if you only need lots of mass. Maybe there should be a rule about potential energy?
Thought of the day: A rhinosaurous can be a key to many doors.
Yes, there are shenanigans to what you can do with this spell. Your ideas are interesting but can't really be used in practice I think.
1. If you switched with an actual other being then The bless on you would no longer be there while by RAW it is still there. The bless effect is not part of your or the beasts stat block and is preserved.
4. The personality stuff is there so you can recognize friend and foe and still be useful instead of turning into an incontrollable wild animal. Your intelligence reduces your ability to make choices but a cat knows who it likes and who it doesn't generally.
6. Maintaining conditions from the last time is quite problematic and makes the spell far less useful. What do you do if the creature died last time? Also it wouldn't makes sense for excess damage to carry over in this case.
7. if you are a big hobbit do you turn into a bigger cat than a normal sized human would? Size is part of the beasts stat block. A goliath would still become a tiny squirrel, not a small one.
8. Yea... there are a lot of things you can do technically that can cause all kinds of shenanigans. Watch out though. You might revert to normal form with a board stuck through your chest. I don't see an issue with becoming a huge powerful creature to know down a door at all though. You just spent a 4th level spell to open a door rather than a second level Knock.
Since the spell was cast when you were small and says you can appear only a foot shorter or taller I would say the spell is broken. The giant ape is just too big. Maybe if you changed to a normal sized gorilla it would work though.
Yes, there are shenanigans to what you can do with this spell. Your ideas are interesting but can't really be used in practice I think.
1. If you switched with an actual other being then The bless on you would no longer be there while by RAW it is still there. The bless effect is not part of your or the beasts stat block and is preserved.
But, on the plus size, when you turned back the bless would resume with the time as an animal not counted against it.
4. The personality stuff is there so you can recognize friend and foe and still be useful instead of turning into an incontrollable wild animal. Your intelligence reduces your ability to make choices but a cat knows who it likes and who it doesn't generally.
And how do you roleplay whether you can, or cannot follow the plan you had when you changed?
6. Maintaining conditions from the last time is quite problematic and makes the spell far less useful. What do you do if the creature died last time? Also it wouldn't makes sense for excess damage to carry over in this case.
My feeling is there should be consequences for getting your animal self harmed, but I'm not sure of the detail. Otherwise you don't own it.
7. if you are a big hobbit do you turn into a bigger cat than a normal sized human would? Size is part of the beasts stat block. A goliath would still become a tiny squirrel, not a small one.
It's the variation within your kind I was thinking of. So I don't want my gnome trying to turn into a horse and only managing a Shetland pony.
8. Yea... there are a lot of things you can do technically that can cause all kinds of shenanigans. Watch out though. You might revert to normal form with a board stuck through your chest. I don't see an issue with becoming a huge powerful creature to know down a door at all though. You just spent a 4th level spell to open a door rather than a second level Knock.
But then, a knock spell will only open something designed to open.
1. The bless is being concentrated on for 1 minute by another PC and the duration would not be extended.
4. Maybe you can and maybe there are issues. That is a DM ruling really. If you change to something like a Giant Ape you are more than intelligent enough to follow the plan.
6. This would, in my opinion overcomplicate the spell far too much. There is no need for this as you don't need to own it. You are just transforming into it. Wild shape doesn't make you maintain damage that was taken in normal form so this should definitely not. And like I asked, what would you do it the form died? Would you not be able to take that form again?
7. It seems like you are limiting the spell in one way and not in the other. That would make things worse for a particularly small PC. The beast for is the normal size of the beast form and is unaffected by the PC size.
1. The bless is being concentrated on for 1 minute by another PC and the duration would not be extended.
Oh, that's easy then. The bless is being maintained by the attention of the caster which automatically follows the substitution, transferring the connection to the new form.
4. Maybe you can and maybe there are issues. That is a DM ruling really. If you change to something like a Giant Ape you are more than intelligent enough to follow the plan.
Rats, for example, make and follow plans. The question is, does it follow your plan and, if not, in what sense is it you?
6. This would, in my opinion overcomplicate the spell far too much. There is no need for this as you don't need to own it. You are just transforming into it. Wild shape doesn't make you maintain damage that was taken in normal form so this should definitely not. And like I asked, what would you do it the form died? Would you not be able to take that form again?
It's rather different, in "moral hazard" terms, whether the transformation is friendly or hostile. If you're transformed by an enemy with the intention of neutralising you then the last thing they are going to want to do is harm the animal, in fact for you, the animal, suicide would be the logical course of action because death ends the spell and restores you. The DM could rule "you can't do that because the animal's instincts prevent", but then he's taken your volition from you, which is something I hate to do, or have done. If the animal's instincts are stronger than your will, then it's just an NPC.
If an enemy turns you into a small furry animal your logical course of action would be to run up their trouser leg (preferably inside) and bite them. Either they'd loose concentration or squash you. Either way you're back in business. I don't like that being the logical course of action. Nor do I like the scenario where you turn in an animal with the intention of sacrificing it (as with the hippopotamus). I feel there ought to be consequences to negate this logic, but I'm not clear on what. Maybe the animal comes back to haunt you.
7. It seems like you are limiting the spell in one way and not in the other. That would make things worse for a particularly small PC. The beast for is the normal size of the beast form and is unaffected by the PC size.
Size, as they say, isn't everything. In fact it's very rarely significant. How often do you check your character's size on the character sheet? But I like the idea of a bit of customisation. I like the idea that someone who knew your character well might see you in beast form and ask "is that you?" It's not important as far as mechanics is concerned. Just makes it a bit more interesting.
I remember an enterprising sorceress in 3.0 casting Polymorph on a monster and turning it into a large fish.
The monster went from absolutely destroying the party to flopping on the ground and gasping for "air."
In 3.0, drowning was especially deadly: make saves until you fail the save. Failing the save drops you to 0 hp. Failing the next save kills you outright.
The fish flopped on the ground for a few rounds, then simply stopped moving.
Looking at Polymorph here, I don't see why that would not work... am I missing something? Or is that the case?
The entry for Suffocating here on D&D Beyond reads:
Suffocating
A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds).
When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 hit points and is dying, and it can't regain hit points or be stabilized until it can breathe again.
For example, a creature with a Constitution of 14 can hold its breath for 3 minutes. If it starts suffocating, it has 2 rounds to reach air before it drops to 0 hit points.
If you polymorphed someone into a quipper (Con 9, modifier -1) they would flop around for a total of 36 seconds (6 rounds) before dropping to 0 HP.
And to add: dropping to 0 hp ends the polymorph. So, polymorphing somebody into a fish would not kill them through suffocation. This is deliberately designed.
So...the party opens the door to a 20' x 20' x 10' room. There are two 5th level fighters. A player casts polymorph on one, he fails his wisdom save, and is turned into a Brontosaurus a Gargantuan creature 20' x 20'. How would you rule on this?
Given a worse scenario, the fighters are in a line in a tunnel 5' wide and 10' tall. Again, they fail the save and get turned into a Brontosaurus. Now what?
The new form has 121 hp so I don't think it would immediately die...but if I did rule it that way i could revert to the fighter, but how much damage would carry over? None as a "don't pull that crap in my game" manner?
I'd imagine the fighters in the tunnel scenario get flung out of range. However, what would happen to the one in the 20' room is he haplessly pinned beneath Brontosaurus butt?
If the space is 1 size category smaller, I'd say the resulting form is smaller as if under effect from the reduce option of Enlarge/Reduce spell. If the space is more than 1 size smaller, I'd say the spell fails but give the caster the option of an int check dc 5 + form CR, to remember and realise the size difference - on success they don't cast the spell, on fail they cast and the spell slot is wasted.
I'm not sure if I entirely understand the situation. Are you fighting against the fighters or are they part of the party? If they're willing, they don't make a wisdom save. If they're unwilling enemies, I'm not sure brontosaurus is the best choice of form. If they're 5th level, CR 5 is ok, but who is casting this spell onto them? Do you have a mixed level party?
So...the party opens the door to a 20' x 20' x 10' room. There are two 5th level fighters. A player casts polymorph on one, he fails his wisdom save, and is turned into a Brontosaurus a Gargantuan creature 20' x 20'. How would you rule on this?
Given a worse scenario, the fighters are in a line in a tunnel 5' wide and 10' tall. Again, they fail the save and get turned into a Brontosaurus. Now what?
The new form has 121 hp so I don't think it would immediately die...but if I did rule it that way i could revert to the fighter, but how much damage would carry over? None as a "don't pull that crap in my game" manner?
I'd imagine the fighters in the tunnel scenario get flung out of range. However, what would happen to the one in the 20' room is he haplessly pinned beneath Brontosaurus butt?
Firstly I'd rule that other creatures would be forced into the nearest space not occupied by the new one, and other creatures might be pushed aside to make room. While usually similar effects say "nearest unoccupied space" that could get weird if such a space puts them behind the party suddenly. If the available space is very restricted you could make it a saving throw to avoid being crushed instead (can't move, takes bludgeoning damage).
As for the brontosaurus, I'm surprised that polymorph doesn't have an "if there is no space for the new form the spell fails" wording as a lot of similar effects use, I suppose that's because worst case the creature is crushed and just reverts back, but there aren't really any explicit rules for being a space where you won't fit in the game.
There's the improvising damage section of the Dungeon Master's Guide, that seems to suggest 10d10 for "crushed by compacting walls" which seems pretty close, so as long as the creature is being crushed it would take that damage at the start of each turn until it hits 0 hit-points and turns back? If there is nowhere logical for the other fighter to go you could argue they might take crushing damage as well.
I'm not sure if I entirely understand the situation. Are you fighting against the fighters or are they part of the party? If they're willing, they don't make a wisdom save. If they're unwilling enemies, I'm not sure brontosaurus is the best choice of form. If they're 5th level, CR 5 is ok, but who is casting this spell onto them? Do you have a mixed level party?
The party which is 10th level went for the autokill option, but it made me think of both scenarios. The 5th level fighters had to make the save and failed. Thankfully, it was the 20' x 20' x10' room so I had a little wiggle room to say the one 5th level fighter was just stuck in there with the beast nearly crushing him. However, if they had done it in the hallway scenario...well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of guidance in the rules for that. I try not to allow things with instant kills as I don't want to do that to the players in return. So I'm inclined to go with the, "if there's not room for it...it doesn't happen."
There aren’t rules for this particular “auto kill” option, but I’m disinclined to allow any of them.
Firstly, as others have noted, creatures can squeeze into spaces smaller for them. But secondly, if the creature is still to large for the space provided, then there are a couple of options: one is to be shunted to the nearest space that can fit the creature (possibly taking damage along the way), the other is simply having the creature take damage until it no longer fills the space. Either way, I’d have the creature only take damage until it fit into the space available (i.e, until the polymorph ends). No insta-kill options from me, but possibly a waste of a spell.
So...the party opens the door to a 20' x 20' x 10' room. There are two 5th level fighters. A player casts polymorph on one, he fails his wisdom save, and is turned into a Brontosaurus a Gargantuan creature 20' x 20'. How would you rule on this?
Given a worse scenario, the fighters are in a line in a tunnel 5' wide and 10' tall. Again, they fail the save and get turned into a Brontosaurus. Now what?
The new form has 121 hp so I don't think it would immediately die...but if I did rule it that way i could revert to the fighter, but how much damage would carry over? None as a "don't pull that crap in my game" manner?
I'd imagine the fighters in the tunnel scenario get flung out of range. However, what would happen to the one in the 20' room is he haplessly pinned beneath Brontosaurus butt?
The traditional answer is that they would be displaced to wherever there is room for them. If they were killed by their own expansion, the same explosive force of their new bodies pressing against the walls of the room would shoot bits of their bodies out of the room through the doorway at the party, potentially at high velocity. If reverting back to whatever race they started at mid flight, this would reduce their mass and wind resistance, potentially increasing their velocities. Not likely good for the party.
So...the party opens the door to a 20' x 20' x 10' room. There are two 5th level fighters. A player casts polymorph on one, he fails his wisdom save, and is turned into a Brontosaurus a Gargantuan creature 20' x 20'. How would you rule on this?
Given a worse scenario, the fighters are in a line in a tunnel 5' wide and 10' tall. Again, they fail the save and get turned into a Brontosaurus. Now what?
The new form has 121 hp so I don't think it would immediately die...but if I did rule it that way i could revert to the fighter, but how much damage would carry over? None as a "don't pull that crap in my game" manner?
I'd imagine the fighters in the tunnel scenario get flung out of range. However, what would happen to the one in the 20' room is he haplessly pinned beneath Brontosaurus butt?
The traditional answer is that they would be displaced to wherever there is room for them. If they were killed by their own expansion, the same explosive force of their new bodies pressing against the walls of the room would shoot bits of their bodies out of the room through the doorway at the party, potentially at high velocity. If reverting back to whatever race they started at mid flight, this would reduce their mass and wind resistance, potentially increasing their velocities. Not likely good for the party.
In what way is that a 'traditional' answer? LOL
Being displaced is an answer that has held over multiple prior editions.
Sure, not the exploding bits though! Perhaps I read that wrong. :)
To answer your question i think you will need to take in count what are you doing with the polimorph, are you stacking it up or just chg it, if you will stack it just take in count you are basically broking the game, cuz with that you will be able to stack other things, ore if you just chg it, one from the other, either way the best thing its thinking logically, when transforming with polimorf your stats becomes the same as the creature, although you will not lose conciusness you will change in way your racional thinking to the one of the creature, cuz your mentality also chg, now by that logic and knowing how proud dragons are, a dragon will not purposly chg to be another creature, cuz they think themselves to be the top race, but if you want to end the argument easly a polimoph only change the body of the ariginal creature it does not make a new creature so therefore you cannot stack polimorph because the ariginal creature its still in the effect of another spell that its changing them, so the spell will not have a phisical real body to resolve the efect, still you will be able to use the fre polimorph from the dragon to use it in another creature
I think thats the way to settle this but let me know what you think
IMO the illusion would hold and the outward appearance would not change even though underneath the character had changed into another form as long as the new form is the same size category, say a medium sized ape as opposed to a giant ape (huge). Someone say, feeling your arm while you were in your normal form would feel an elf's arm regardless of what the illusion of your arm looked like, whereas after the polymorph they would feel a hairy ape arm despite the illusionary appearance having not changed. The disguise self having been cast initially on a medium sized creature would not be able to sustain a convincing illusion to conceal the change in size from medium to huge and so, I would simply rule that while the illusion still exists, everyone can see it for what it is (i.e. an illusion failing to conceal a giant ape).
I've been thinking about this spell recently, so here's some of my thoughts.
The Bard crawls across the roof of the wooden meed-hall of the hill giants. He locates the point directly above the royal throne. He levitates 30' above it. He turns himself into a hippopotamus, or possibly a sperm-whale. He picks the mangled crown out of the wreckage and levitates to safety through the gaping hole in the roof.
Who needs a high CR if you only need lots of mass. Maybe there should be a rule about potential energy?
Thought of the day: A rhinosaurous can be a key to many doors.
Yes, there are shenanigans to what you can do with this spell. Your ideas are interesting but can't really be used in practice I think.
1. If you switched with an actual other being then The bless on you would no longer be there while by RAW it is still there. The bless effect is not part of your or the beasts stat block and is preserved.
4. The personality stuff is there so you can recognize friend and foe and still be useful instead of turning into an incontrollable wild animal. Your intelligence reduces your ability to make choices but a cat knows who it likes and who it doesn't generally.
6. Maintaining conditions from the last time is quite problematic and makes the spell far less useful. What do you do if the creature died last time? Also it wouldn't makes sense for excess damage to carry over in this case.
7. if you are a big hobbit do you turn into a bigger cat than a normal sized human would? Size is part of the beasts stat block. A goliath would still become a tiny squirrel, not a small one.
8. Yea... there are a lot of things you can do technically that can cause all kinds of shenanigans. Watch out though. You might revert to normal form with a board stuck through your chest. I don't see an issue with becoming a huge powerful creature to know down a door at all though. You just spent a 4th level spell to open a door rather than a second level Knock.
Since the spell was cast when you were small and says you can appear only a foot shorter or taller I would say the spell is broken. The giant ape is just too big. Maybe if you changed to a normal sized gorilla it would work though.
But then, a knock spell will only open something designed to open.
1. The bless is being concentrated on for 1 minute by another PC and the duration would not be extended.
4. Maybe you can and maybe there are issues. That is a DM ruling really. If you change to something like a Giant Ape you are more than intelligent enough to follow the plan.
6. This would, in my opinion overcomplicate the spell far too much. There is no need for this as you don't need to own it. You are just transforming into it. Wild shape doesn't make you maintain damage that was taken in normal form so this should definitely not. And like I asked, what would you do it the form died? Would you not be able to take that form again?
7. It seems like you are limiting the spell in one way and not in the other. That would make things worse for a particularly small PC. The beast for is the normal size of the beast form and is unaffected by the PC size.
I remember an enterprising sorceress in 3.0 casting Polymorph on a monster and turning it into a large fish.
The monster went from absolutely destroying the party to flopping on the ground and gasping for "air."
In 3.0, drowning was especially deadly: make saves until you fail the save. Failing the save drops you to 0 hp. Failing the next save kills you outright.
The fish flopped on the ground for a few rounds, then simply stopped moving.
Looking at Polymorph here, I don't see why that would not work... am I missing something? Or is that the case?
The entry for Suffocating here on D&D Beyond reads:
Suffocating
A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds).
When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 hit points and is dying, and it can't regain hit points or be stabilized until it can breathe again.
For example, a creature with a Constitution of 14 can hold its breath for 3 minutes. If it starts suffocating, it has 2 rounds to reach air before it drops to 0 hit points.
If you polymorphed someone into a quipper (Con 9, modifier -1) they would flop around for a total of 36 seconds (6 rounds) before dropping to 0 HP.
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And to add: dropping to 0 hp ends the polymorph. So, polymorphing somebody into a fish would not kill them through suffocation. This is deliberately designed.
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So...the party opens the door to a 20' x 20' x 10' room. There are two 5th level fighters. A player casts polymorph on one, he fails his wisdom save, and is turned into a Brontosaurus a Gargantuan creature 20' x 20'. How would you rule on this?
Given a worse scenario, the fighters are in a line in a tunnel 5' wide and 10' tall. Again, they fail the save and get turned into a Brontosaurus. Now what?
The new form has 121 hp so I don't think it would immediately die...but if I did rule it that way i could revert to the fighter, but how much damage would carry over? None as a "don't pull that crap in my game" manner?
I'd imagine the fighters in the tunnel scenario get flung out of range. However, what would happen to the one in the 20' room is he haplessly pinned beneath Brontosaurus butt?
If the space is 1 size category smaller, I'd say the resulting form is smaller as if under effect from the reduce option of Enlarge/Reduce spell. If the space is more than 1 size smaller, I'd say the spell fails but give the caster the option of an int check dc 5 + form CR, to remember and realise the size difference - on success they don't cast the spell, on fail they cast and the spell slot is wasted.
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I'm not sure if I entirely understand the situation. Are you fighting against the fighters or are they part of the party? If they're willing, they don't make a wisdom save. If they're unwilling enemies, I'm not sure brontosaurus is the best choice of form. If they're 5th level, CR 5 is ok, but who is casting this spell onto them? Do you have a mixed level party?
Firstly I'd rule that other creatures would be forced into the nearest space not occupied by the new one, and other creatures might be pushed aside to make room. While usually similar effects say "nearest unoccupied space" that could get weird if such a space puts them behind the party suddenly. If the available space is very restricted you could make it a saving throw to avoid being crushed instead (can't move, takes bludgeoning damage).
As for the brontosaurus, I'm surprised that polymorph doesn't have an "if there is no space for the new form the spell fails" wording as a lot of similar effects use, I suppose that's because worst case the creature is crushed and just reverts back, but there aren't really any explicit rules for being a space where you won't fit in the game.
There's the improvising damage section of the Dungeon Master's Guide, that seems to suggest 10d10 for "crushed by compacting walls" which seems pretty close, so as long as the creature is being crushed it would take that damage at the start of each turn until it hits 0 hit-points and turns back? If there is nowhere logical for the other fighter to go you could argue they might take crushing damage as well.
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The party which is 10th level went for the autokill option, but it made me think of both scenarios. The 5th level fighters had to make the save and failed. Thankfully, it was the 20' x 20' x10' room so I had a little wiggle room to say the one 5th level fighter was just stuck in there with the beast nearly crushing him. However, if they had done it in the hallway scenario...well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of guidance in the rules for that. I try not to allow things with instant kills as I don't want to do that to the players in return. So I'm inclined to go with the, "if there's not room for it...it doesn't happen."
There aren’t rules for this particular “auto kill” option, but I’m disinclined to allow any of them.
Firstly, as others have noted, creatures can squeeze into spaces smaller for them. But secondly, if the creature is still to large for the space provided, then there are a couple of options: one is to be shunted to the nearest space that can fit the creature (possibly taking damage along the way), the other is simply having the creature take damage until it no longer fills the space. Either way, I’d have the creature only take damage until it fit into the space available (i.e, until the polymorph ends). No insta-kill options from me, but possibly a waste of a spell.
In what way is that a 'traditional' answer? LOL
Sure, not the exploding bits though! Perhaps I read that wrong. :)
To answer your question i think you will need to take in count what are you doing with the polimorph, are you stacking it up or just chg it, if you will stack it just take in count you are basically broking the game, cuz with that you will be able to stack other things, ore if you just chg it, one from the other, either way the best thing its thinking logically, when transforming with polimorf your stats becomes the same as the creature, although you will not lose conciusness you will change in way your racional thinking to the one of the creature, cuz your mentality also chg, now by that logic and knowing how proud dragons are, a dragon will not purposly chg to be another creature, cuz they think themselves to be the top race, but if you want to end the argument easly a polimoph only change the body of the ariginal creature it does not make a new creature so therefore you cannot stack polimorph because the ariginal creature its still in the effect of another spell that its changing them, so the spell will not have a phisical real body to resolve the efect, still you will be able to use the fre polimorph from the dragon to use it in another creature
I think thats the way to settle this but let me know what you think
Two questions
1) do you retain any feats when polymorphed such as mobile, lucky, or Warcaster?
2) if a polymorphed creature gets petrified does it remain petrified when the polymorph effect ends?