Hm. I actually experimented with what minimalist races would look like. It's actually fairly easy (and shows off there being some balance issues between races):
All: keep their Age, Size, and Speed. All characters start with one extra Feat and Language, which may be used to fill out their favored race or for another purpose.
Gnome: Darkvision, Gnome Cunning (for other abilities, see the Artificer background, or appropriate feats)
Half-Elf: Darkvision, Fey Ancestry.
Halfling: Lucky, Brave, Halfling Nimbleness.
Half-Orc: Darkvision, Relentless Endurance.
Human: one additional bonus feat.
Tiefling: Darkvision, Hellish Resistance.
In addition, we create a couple new backgrounds
Artificer: gives Clockwork tools (allows making clockwork, like the gnome Tinker trait) and one other, History skill and one other, and special: Artificer's Lore
Builder: gives Carpenter's Tools or Mason's Tools, one other Tool, two skills, and Stonecutting (as the dwarf trait)
And a couple new feats
Drow Magic: as the racial ability.
Infernal Legacy: as the racial ability.
Woodwise: grants Fleet of Foot, Mask of the Wild, Survival proficiency
If what are currently race-specific feats become modular add-ons, I would argue that Feline Agility, Powerful Build, and Poison Resistance require stat prerequisites. Probably a minimum of 10 in the relevant score. Of course, with modular features, we would also be talking about V. Human builds with flight and Sharpshooter feat from level one at that point. This would become an absolute headache for less expereinced DMs trying to balance low level encounters.
Also, keep in mind that Kobolds currently have a penalized STR stat because Pack Tactics is very powerful in any party with at least 2 reliably front-line melee PCs.
If what are currently race-specific feats become modular add-ons, I would argue that Feline Agility, Powerful Build, and Poison Resistance require stat prerequisites. Probably a minimum of 10 in the relevant score. Of course, with modular features, we would also be talking about V. Human builds with flight and Sharpshooter feat from level one at that point. This would become an absolute headache for less expereinced DMs trying to balance low level encounters.
Also, keep in mind that Kobolds currently have a penalized STR stat because Pack Tactics is very powerful in any party with at least 2 reliably front-line melee PCs.
The Kobold penalty to STR is irrelevant because DEX builds pretty much rule the D&D multiverse, and I am not sure how a V. Human would get flight at level 1.
And they have presumptive disadvantage all day long due to light sensitivity, so Pack Tactics ain’t all that. But yeah, Pack Tactics is a bad racial which causes more balance problems than its worth.
If what are currently race-specific features become modular, why wouldn't someone build a V. Human with flight?
I'm not a developer, but I presume that if the STR penalty becomes irrelevant, people would then have an incentive to build Great Weapon Master feat Rogue-Fighter multiclass Kobolds to take greater advantage of Pack Tactics.
If what are currently race-specific features become modular, why wouldn't someone build a V. Human with flight?
Mostly because flight would cost more than one feat, or would be a feat with some built in penalties. There's a reason I didn't list the non-PHB races, some of them have abilities that should cost more than the number of flex points needed for PHB races.
If what are currently race-specific features become modular, why wouldn't someone build a V. Human with flight?
I'm not a developer, but I presume that if the STR penalty becomes irrelevant, people would then have an incentive to build Great Weapon Master feat Rogue-Fighter multiclass Kobolds to take greater advantage of Pack Tactics.
First and foremost, you can't sneak attack with a Great Weapon and Secondly, small creatures can't use Great Weapons.
Also, why would there suddenly be a Feat that grants flying to just anyone that takes it?
Only one person made that suggestion, and I agree it’s bad and leads to mutants. What I was advocating for was at the least, a system where races still have set racial features (Minotaurs with Powerful Build, gnomes with speaking to small critters), but no static modifiers to attributes at all, and no/rewritten abilities that only favor a single class/build. My dream would be that, but ALSO a layer of cultures to choose from with their own proficiencies/features, so that building a character could lead to things like “dwarf raised by humans, merchant background” or “lizardfolk from underdark culture, spy” instead of just assuming all characters are raised by their own race.
That seems to be the suggestion being discussed... separate out racial features and convert them to choose-able feats. Under such a system, any given race could indeed choose flight, by way of being part aarakocra
It was? I mean, I did suggest treating some racial features as choosable feats, but that's because they're generally things that are available to anyone anyway via feats or backgrounds -- skill proficiencies, armor/weapon proficiencies, [feat]magic initiate[/feat] -- and aren't logically racial qualities anyway, they're cultural. It also fixes issues with a few features being super good for certain classes and completely worthless for other classes -- if you don't play a class that has a use for the feature, don't take it.
You're right about not being able to SAttack with a heavy weapon. However, Small size creatures can use heavy weapons, just with a penalty to to the attack roll. Okay, that wasn't the greatest example.
Still, if any PC could get access to Pack Tactics because features tied to races become modular, combining that with Great Weapon Master would be a logical step for many people trying to make an optimized melee character.
Still, if any PC could get access to Pack Tactics because features tied to races become modular, combining that with Great Weapon Master would be a logical step for many people trying to make an optimized melee character.
Given that there are 'any race' NPCs with pack tactics (Tribal Warrior), it's clearly not a pure racial ability anyway. It might not be available as a feat, though.
My dream would be that, but ALSO a layer of cultures to choose from with their own proficiencies/features, so that building a character could lead to things like “dwarf raised by humans, merchant background” or “lizardfolk from underdark culture, spy” instead of just assuming all characters are raised by their own race.
This is easily done via homebrew, isn't it? Just swap out one cultural benefit for another cultural benefit, assuming there is something swap-able. Or if it doesn't particularly change the power level of a PC, most DMs would just hand wave it.
Only one person made that suggestion, and I agree it’s bad and leads to mutants. What I was advocating for was at the least, a system where races still have set racial features (Minotaurs with Powerful Build, gnomes with speaking to small critters), but no static modifiers to attributes at all, and no/rewritten abilities that only favor a single class/build.
That seems to be the suggestion being discussed... separate out racial features and convert them to choose-able feats. Under such a system, any given race could indeed choose flight, by way of being part aarakocra
It was? I mean, I did suggest treating some racial features as choosable feats, but that's because they're generally things that are available to anyone anyway via feats or backgrounds -- skill proficiencies, armor/weapon proficiencies, [feat]magic initiate[/feat] -- and aren't logically racial qualities anyway, they're cultural. It also fixes issues with a few features being super good for certain classes and completely worthless for other classes -- if you don't play a class that has a use for the feature, don't take it.
But we are also discussing non-PHB "race" features here, like Powerful Build, Silent Speech, and Feline Agility, right? So to be fair to players who like playing non-PHB races, wouldn't this system also need to be balanced for people who like playing Kenku or Ghostwise Halflings or Kobolds? Making a suggestion that mostly applies to PHB-only races seems unfair to a large portion of the D&D players.
Also, it's becoming clear that part of the difficulty with getting rid of certain features that favor particular builds is that not all differences between what are currently called "races" are cultural. Some of the differences are very distinct and tied to a particular "race" because they are actually supposed to be biological because "race" is being used very loosely by D&D rules when we are often talking about entirely separate species. Heck, Warforged don't even have flesh and don't need to breathe! The main reason they are classified as Humanoids at all is for RAW balance reasons. My point is, once we venture beyond the traditional fantasy Tolkien-esque and European fairy tale creatures, "race" is a terrible descriptor and should not be used because it leads to confusion about what is cultural vs. what is biologically/physically innate. That confusion in turn, leads to people like us talking about getting rid stat modifiers entirely without regard for how they sometimes are being used to logically justify particular features, like Powerful Build and Feline Agility because those features are not based on cultural differences but based on biological ones.
But we are also discussing non-PHB "race" features here, like Powerful Build, Silent Speech, and Feline Agility, right? So to be fair to players who like playing non-PHB races, wouldn't this system also need to be balanced for people who like playing Kenku or Ghostwise Halflings or Kobolds? Making a suggestion that mostly applies to PHB-only races seems unfair to a large portion of the D&D players.
Balancing the non-PHB races is a much bigger issue, because a number of them have traits that are unusually powerful or have a bunch of signature traits. That said, where the capabilities are similar in power to a feat, nothing prevents them being feats with prerequisites -- it's not that racial properties are per se bad, it's just when those racial properties are not logically racial, lock the character into specific class choices, or enforce problematic stereotypes (Grovel, Cower, and Beg ... just no).
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Hm. I actually experimented with what minimalist races would look like. It's actually fairly easy (and shows off there being some balance issues between races):
In addition, we create a couple new backgrounds
And a couple new feats
If what are currently race-specific feats become modular add-ons, I would argue that Feline Agility, Powerful Build, and Poison Resistance require stat prerequisites. Probably a minimum of 10 in the relevant score. Of course, with modular features, we would also be talking about V. Human builds with flight and Sharpshooter feat from level one at that point. This would become an absolute headache for less expereinced DMs trying to balance low level encounters.
Also, keep in mind that Kobolds currently have a penalized STR stat because Pack Tactics is very powerful in any party with at least 2 reliably front-line melee PCs.
The Kobold penalty to STR is irrelevant because DEX builds pretty much rule the D&D multiverse, and I am not sure how a V. Human would get flight at level 1.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
And they have presumptive disadvantage all day long due to light sensitivity, so Pack Tactics ain’t all that. But yeah, Pack Tactics is a bad racial which causes more balance problems than its worth.
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If what are currently race-specific features become modular, why wouldn't someone build a V. Human with flight?
I'm not a developer, but I presume that if the STR penalty becomes irrelevant, people would then have an incentive to build Great Weapon Master feat Rogue-Fighter multiclass Kobolds to take greater advantage of Pack Tactics.
Mostly because flight would cost more than one feat, or would be a feat with some built in penalties. There's a reason I didn't list the non-PHB races, some of them have abilities that should cost more than the number of flex points needed for PHB races.
First and foremost, you can't sneak attack with a Great Weapon and Secondly, small creatures can't use Great Weapons.
Also, why would there suddenly be a Feat that grants flying to just anyone that takes it?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I certainly would not want to play D&D where everyone was an amalgamation of creatures "Frankensteined" together to make the perfect PC.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Only one person made that suggestion, and I agree it’s bad and leads to mutants. What I was advocating for was at the least, a system where races still have set racial features (Minotaurs with Powerful Build, gnomes with speaking to small critters), but no static modifiers to attributes at all, and no/rewritten abilities that only favor a single class/build. My dream would be that, but ALSO a layer of cultures to choose from with their own proficiencies/features, so that building a character could lead to things like “dwarf raised by humans, merchant background” or “lizardfolk from underdark culture, spy” instead of just assuming all characters are raised by their own race.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It was? I mean, I did suggest treating some racial features as choosable feats, but that's because they're generally things that are available to anyone anyway via feats or backgrounds -- skill proficiencies, armor/weapon proficiencies, [feat]magic initiate[/feat] -- and aren't logically racial qualities anyway, they're cultural. It also fixes issues with a few features being super good for certain classes and completely worthless for other classes -- if you don't play a class that has a use for the feature, don't take it.
You're right about not being able to SAttack with a heavy weapon. However, Small size creatures can use heavy weapons, just with a penalty to to the attack roll. Okay, that wasn't the greatest example.
Still, if any PC could get access to Pack Tactics because features tied to races become modular, combining that with Great Weapon Master would be a logical step for many people trying to make an optimized melee character.
Given that there are 'any race' NPCs with pack tactics (Tribal Warrior), it's clearly not a pure racial ability anyway. It might not be available as a feat, though.
This is easily done via homebrew, isn't it? Just swap out one cultural benefit for another cultural benefit, assuming there is something swap-able. Or if it doesn't particularly change the power level of a PC, most DMs would just hand wave it.
But we are also discussing non-PHB "race" features here, like Powerful Build, Silent Speech, and Feline Agility, right? So to be fair to players who like playing non-PHB races, wouldn't this system also need to be balanced for people who like playing Kenku or Ghostwise Halflings or Kobolds? Making a suggestion that mostly applies to PHB-only races seems unfair to a large portion of the D&D players.
Also, it's becoming clear that part of the difficulty with getting rid of certain features that favor particular builds is that not all differences between what are currently called "races" are cultural. Some of the differences are very distinct and tied to a particular "race" because they are actually supposed to be biological because "race" is being used very loosely by D&D rules when we are often talking about entirely separate species. Heck, Warforged don't even have flesh and don't need to breathe! The main reason they are classified as Humanoids at all is for RAW balance reasons. My point is, once we venture beyond the traditional fantasy Tolkien-esque and European fairy tale creatures, "race" is a terrible descriptor and should not be used because it leads to confusion about what is cultural vs. what is biologically/physically innate. That confusion in turn, leads to people like us talking about getting rid stat modifiers entirely without regard for how they sometimes are being used to logically justify particular features, like Powerful Build and Feline Agility because those features are not based on cultural differences but based on biological ones.
Balancing the non-PHB races is a much bigger issue, because a number of them have traits that are unusually powerful or have a bunch of signature traits. That said, where the capabilities are similar in power to a feat, nothing prevents them being feats with prerequisites -- it's not that racial properties are per se bad, it's just when those racial properties are not logically racial, lock the character into specific class choices, or enforce problematic stereotypes (Grovel, Cower, and Beg ... just no).