A big discussion, but i still have a simple doubt.
In my turn can I cast a leveled action spell and in that same turn can I cast a reaction spell? (I will not cast nothing in bonus action).
If yes where can I find that rule description, or someone in Sage advice addressing it.
Juilo, you don't need a source saying that you can, because nothing says you can't. Action spells take your action, Reaction spells take your reaction (and tell you when you're allowed to use them), and if you have both your Action and Reaction available there's no language saying that you can't use both.
A big discussion, but i still have a simple doubt.
In my turn can I cast a leveled action spell and in that same turn can I cast a reaction spell? (I will not cast nothing in bonus action).
If yes where can I find that rule description, or someone in Sage advice addressing it.
Yes you can. I posted the Sage Advice Compendium text on page 1 of this thread, along with a link.
The only limit (outside the one we are debating regarding bonus actions) is that reaction spells have a trigger, so you can only cast one on your turn (or any time) if the trigger is met
A big discussion, but i still have a simple doubt.
In my turn can I cast a leveled action spell and in that same turn can I cast a reaction spell? (I will not cast nothing in bonus action).
If yes where can I find that rule description, or someone in Sage advice addressing it.
Juilo, you don't need a source saying that you can, because nothing says you can't. Action spells take your action, Reaction spells take your reaction (and tell you when you're allowed to use them), and if you have both your Action and Reaction available there's no language saying that you can't use both.
Yaa, but I am having a argue with another player about this particular issue. He does not agree with me and says I cannot until i prove him wrong. A sage advice direct clarification would finish the argument....
A big discussion, but i still have a simple doubt.
In my turn can I cast a leveled action spell and in that same turn can I cast a reaction spell? (I will not cast nothing in bonus action).
If yes where can I find that rule description, or someone in Sage advice addressing it.
Juilo, you don't need a source saying that you can, because nothing says you can't. Action spells take your action, Reaction spells take your reaction (and tell you when you're allowed to use them), and if you have both your Action and Reaction available there's no language saying that you can't use both.
Yaa, but I am having a argue with another player about this particular issue. He does not agree with me and says I cannot until i prove him wrong. A sage advice direct clarification would finish the argument....
Post #15 in this thread has the Sage Advice that tells you what you need for your Action/reaction case (it says yes)
It's generally pretty tough to disprove folks popping up with rules that don't exist: for example, "you're not allowed to carry a rapier and a club at the same time." If your other player won't accept "that rule isn't printed anywhere, and doesn't exist" as a sufficient refutation, then you're usually not going to find a PHB passage or Sage Advice article saying "it's okay to carry a rapier and a club at the same time" to satisfy them.
We are talking about two different things. Readying a spell is an action, in which you cast the spell and hold the energy. A Reaction spell is a spell that has a casting time of one reaction.
This is your initial statement, and you were very ambiguous about what you meant:
if you cast a bonus action, you cannot cast a reaction on the same turn (other turns in the round are ok). The rule for bonus action says you cannot cast another spell on your turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of one action. That means reactions are out (not an action to cast) and leveled spells are out (not cantrips). But as soon as your turn ends, reactions can be cast again (provided you don't use it on something else)
Reactions are not out, because "reaction spells" are not the only reactions in which a spell can be cast.
The bonus action rule says you cannot cast another spell on your turn except for a cantrip with a casting time of one action. Whether you cast or ready that cantrip that would be allowed. But that is entirely different from a reaction spell like shield where the casting time is actually "one reaction"
You usually cannot release a readied spell as a reaction on your turn (technically you can, but the sequence of events to have a trigger release on the same turn you set it is highly improbable), and you lose the ready at the start of your next turn, so you can't hold a readied spell into your next turn.
Actually, it is quite feasible, you can ready things on the trigger "if I'm targeted for an attack", which could perfectly trigger in your own turn and move away provoking an AoO, or later in the round. For example, a vicious mockery directed at the attacker to give him disadvantage on his attack, or any attack cantrip actually with the intent of dropping him before the attack.
I said “cast a reaction” which should imply a reaction spell, but I’m sorry if you were confused. I have only been talking about reaction spells (as in spells with a casting time of one reaction) in this discussion. As I said in a previous post, readying an action cantrip is a fully valid option if you have cast a bonus action spell in the same turn
i also said that you “usually” cannot trigger a reaction the same turn you set it (and further clarified that it is technically possible to do so, just improbable) so I’m not sure why you are hammering down on that point.
you still have not refuted the basic statement that per RAW, you cannot cast a bonus action spell and a reaction spell (casting time of one reaction) in the same turn
The rule says "during the same turn" and that is pretty plain english without any need for clarification. the only exception given is the cantrip/one action option. Other turns during a round are not your turn, so shield would be valid 99% of the time (the 1% being the improbable moments you need it on your turn), including during every other turn that round.
You may think its a bad rule, but the RAW is about as plain as it can be. A turn in which you cast a bonus action spell is a turn in which you cannot cast any other spell, unless it meets the specific requirements of the exception, which reaction spells don't.
Except the problem is that what you're saying equates to "If you cast a spell as a reaction on your turn, you are unable to cast any spell as a bonus action", and that is simply far too removed from any written or intended interactions to be a valid interpretation.
Why is it that far removed though? its the same as if I cast a leveled action spell on my turn...
If I cast Fireball on my turn , I can't cast Misty Step later
If I cast Shield on my turn, I can't cast Misty Step later
Its not any harder. Again, I'm not saying its a well written rule, but as written, in plain language, both of the above statements are true because the rule says "during the same turn" regardless of action/reaction/etc
It's too far removed because it's an 2nd order inference. It's based on the result of another inference, which is not certain. To be clear, I completely understand how you arrive at your conclusion, and I reject it as it rests on an inferred premise that is neither certain nor absolute. I'm sure you already know this, but my comments are not directed at you personally.
Reactions (general) are referenced everywhere in the system as holding a position, rules-wise, as completely removed from action/bonus/move and turn order interactions. The general description of reactions in "Your Turn" is defined after "Other Activity on Your Turn"... if we want to assign any importance to definitional order, then coming after "other activity" is a pretty strong indication that reactions are on an island.
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.
When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.
The only generalized distinction made regarding whether a reaction can be used, when a trigger occurs, is whether you've already used a reaction or not.
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
The only specialized distinction made regarding whether a reaction can be used, when a trigger occurs (and you have not already used your reaction), is whether the spell's description says you can or not. There is no reference to anything about what action/bonus/move you may have already done, or plan to do. It does not matter; reactions only care about reactions.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Not really... maybe I could have phrased that better, but I think the example sufficiently explained what I meant by that. The rules tell you that you CAN use an Action to cast an Action spell, and that you CAN use a Reaction to cast a Reaction spell, and don't tell you that you CAN'T use the two together. If there was a rule that you can't use them together, it would be published, and the fact that it wasn't published is sufficient evidence that such a rule doesn't exist.
The rule says "during the same turn" and that is pretty plain english without any need for clarification. the only exception given is the cantrip/one action option. Other turns during a round are not your turn, so shield would be valid 99% of the time (the 1% being the improbable moments you need it on your turn), including during every other turn that round.
You may think its a bad rule, but the RAW is about as plain as it can be. A turn in which you cast a bonus action spell is a turn in which you cannot cast any other spell, unless it meets the specific requirements of the exception, which reaction spells don't.
Except the problem is that what you're saying equates to "If you cast a spell as a reaction on your turn, you are unable to cast any spell as a bonus action", and that is simply far too removed from any written or intended interactions to be a valid interpretation.
Why is it that far removed though? its the same as if I cast a leveled action spell on my turn...
If I cast Fireball on my turn , I can't cast Misty Step later
If I cast Shield on my turn, I can't cast Misty Step later
Its not any harder. Again, I'm not saying its a well written rule, but as written, in plain language, both of the above statements are true because the rule says "during the same turn" regardless of action/reaction/etc
It's too far removed because it's an 2nd order inference. It's based on the result of another inference, which is not certain. To be clear, I completely understand how you arrive at your conclusion, and I reject it as it rests on an inferred premise that is neither certain nor absolute. I'm sure you already know this, but my comments are not directed at you personally.
I've not taken anything you've said personally; we disagree, and that's ok (unless you are secretly one of my players, lol)
I do think the bonus action rule is a poorly written one; if for any reason but that it comes up a lot in discussion here. I do stand by my interpretation, since no reference to casting type/times is made in the actual rule part of the text ("you can't cast another spell in the same turn", and the only exception in the text "except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" does not address reaction spells (it implicitly excludes them as they don't meet the criteria given).
Even given my POV on this, I also don't see the harm in allowing a reaction spell in the same turn as a bonus action spell, as they are pretty limited in both number and what they can do, and I don't think that combination is in general any more game-breaking than a bonus action + cantrip pairing and the chance for a reaction trigger happening on your turn is not high compared to any other turn in the round.
You could cast a spell that had a casting time of 1 bonus action.
Then cast a spell that is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And also cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 reaction.
3 spells all on the same turn.
(below is the rule for Reactions as a casting time... I have highlighted the last part that lets you know when you can cast a spell with a casting time of 1 reaction.)
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
as it says inside the reaction casting time rules above... reactions can only be cast in response to their triggers... your turn, other turns, whenever
if the trigger is met the reaction spell can be cast, so long as you have a reaction to cast it with.
The rule says "during the same turn" and that is pretty plain english without any need for clarification. the only exception given is the cantrip/one action option. Other turns during a round are not your turn, so shield would be valid 99% of the time (the 1% being the improbable moments you need it on your turn), including during every other turn that round.
You may think its a bad rule, but the RAW is about as plain as it can be. A turn in which you cast a bonus action spell is a turn in which you cannot cast any other spell, unless it meets the specific requirements of the exception, which reaction spells don't.
Except the problem is that what you're saying equates to "If you cast a spell as a reaction on your turn, you are unable to cast any spell as a bonus action", and that is simply far too removed from any written or intended interactions to be a valid interpretation.
Why is it that far removed though? its the same as if I cast a leveled action spell on my turn...
If I cast Fireball on my turn , I can't cast Misty Step later
If I cast Shield on my turn, I can't cast Misty Step later
Its not any harder. Again, I'm not saying its a well written rule, but as written, in plain language, both of the above statements are true because the rule says "during the same turn" regardless of action/reaction/etc
It's too far removed because it's an 2nd order inference. It's based on the result of another inference, which is not certain. To be clear, I completely understand how you arrive at your conclusion, and I reject it as it rests on an inferred premise that is neither certain nor absolute. I'm sure you already know this, but my comments are not directed at you personally.
Reactions (general) are referenced everywhere in the system as holding a position, rules-wise, as completely removed from action/bonus/move and turn order interactions. The general description of reactions in "Your Turn" is defined after "Other Activity on Your Turn"... if we want to assign any importance to definitional order, then coming after "other activity" is a pretty strong indication that reactions are on an island.
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.
When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.
The only generalized distinction made regarding whether a reaction can be used, when a trigger occurs, is whether you've already used a reaction or not.
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
The only specialized distinction made regarding whether a reaction can be used, when a trigger occurs (and you have not already used your reaction), is whether the spell's description says you can or not. There is no reference to anything about what action/bonus/move you may have already done, or plan to do. It does not matter; reactions only care about reactions.
You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be. The rule is that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on that turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Is any spell with a casting time of a reaction a cantrip with a casting time of one action? It's not an inference to say "no." It's not an inference to say "if something is not the one thing the rule says you can cast, then you can't cast it." It's literally what the rule says on its face. All this talk of reactions being on an "island" is entirely irrelevant.
as it says inside the reaction casting time rules above... reactions can only be cast in response to their triggers... your turn, other turns, whenever
if the trigger is met the reaction spell can be cast, so long as you have a reaction to cast it with.
And as it says in the bonus action spell rule, the only spells you can cast in the same turn you cast with a bonus action are cantrips with a cast time of one action, which reaction spells are not. It's not complicated. If the trigger is met on the same turn you cast a spell with a bonus action, you can't cast a spell in reaction to it.
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Juilo, you don't need a source saying that you can, because nothing says you can't. Action spells take your action, Reaction spells take your reaction (and tell you when you're allowed to use them), and if you have both your Action and Reaction available there's no language saying that you can't use both.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#CastingTime
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yes you can. I posted the Sage Advice Compendium text on page 1 of this thread, along with a link.
The only limit (outside the one we are debating regarding bonus actions) is that reaction spells have a trigger, so you can only cast one on your turn (or any time) if the trigger is met
Yaa, but I am having a argue with another player about this particular issue. He does not agree with me and says I cannot until i prove him wrong. A sage advice direct clarification would finish the argument....
Post #15 in this thread has the Sage Advice that tells you what you need for your Action/reaction case (it says yes)
It's generally pretty tough to disprove folks popping up with rules that don't exist: for example, "you're not allowed to carry a rapier and a club at the same time." If your other player won't accept "that rule isn't printed anywhere, and doesn't exist" as a sufficient refutation, then you're usually not going to find a PHB passage or Sage Advice article saying "it's okay to carry a rapier and a club at the same time" to satisfy them.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I said “cast a reaction” which should imply a reaction spell, but I’m sorry if you were confused. I have only been talking about reaction spells (as in spells with a casting time of one reaction) in this discussion. As I said in a previous post, readying an action cantrip is a fully valid option if you have cast a bonus action spell in the same turn
i also said that you “usually” cannot trigger a reaction the same turn you set it (and further clarified that it is technically possible to do so, just improbable) so I’m not sure why you are hammering down on that point.
you still have not refuted the basic statement that per RAW, you cannot cast a bonus action spell and a reaction spell (casting time of one reaction) in the same turn
I don't believe that can be refuted. I also cannot imagine the point of actually ruling that way. Is there one?
It's too far removed because it's an 2nd order inference. It's based on the result of another inference, which is not certain. To be clear, I completely understand how you arrive at your conclusion, and I reject it as it rests on an inferred premise that is neither certain nor absolute. I'm sure you already know this, but my comments are not directed at you personally.
Reactions (general) are referenced everywhere in the system as holding a position, rules-wise, as completely removed from action/bonus/move and turn order interactions. The general description of reactions in "Your Turn" is defined after "Other Activity on Your Turn"... if we want to assign any importance to definitional order, then coming after "other activity" is a pretty strong indication that reactions are on an island.
The only generalized distinction made regarding whether a reaction can be used, when a trigger occurs, is whether you've already used a reaction or not.
The only specialized distinction made regarding whether a reaction can be used, when a trigger occurs (and you have not already used your reaction), is whether the spell's description says you can or not. There is no reference to anything about what action/bonus/move you may have already done, or plan to do. It does not matter; reactions only care about reactions.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Isn't that the opposite of how rules work?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Not really... maybe I could have phrased that better, but I think the example sufficiently explained what I meant by that. The rules tell you that you CAN use an Action to cast an Action spell, and that you CAN use a Reaction to cast a Reaction spell, and don't tell you that you CAN'T use the two together. If there was a rule that you can't use them together, it would be published, and the fact that it wasn't published is sufficient evidence that such a rule doesn't exist.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I've not taken anything you've said personally; we disagree, and that's ok (unless you are secretly one of my players, lol)
I do think the bonus action rule is a poorly written one; if for any reason but that it comes up a lot in discussion here. I do stand by my interpretation, since no reference to casting type/times is made in the actual rule part of the text ("you can't cast another spell in the same turn", and the only exception in the text "except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" does not address reaction spells (it implicitly excludes them as they don't meet the criteria given).
Even given my POV on this, I also don't see the harm in allowing a reaction spell in the same turn as a bonus action spell, as they are pretty limited in both number and what they can do, and I don't think that combination is in general any more game-breaking than a bonus action + cantrip pairing and the chance for a reaction trigger happening on your turn is not high compared to any other turn in the round.
You could cast a spell that had a casting time of 1 bonus action.
Then cast a spell that is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
And also cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 reaction.
3 spells all on the same turn.
(below is the rule for Reactions as a casting time... I have highlighted the last part that lets you know when you can cast a spell with a casting time of 1 reaction.)
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
Am I missing something here? The reaction spell has to happen outside of your turn because of the bonus action spell, right?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Depends on the game.
As an example, scroll down to: December 19, 2002
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ask-wizards-december-2002-2002-12-02
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Not according to Sigred.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
I concede I failed to specify I was referring to Dungeons and Dragons on the Dungeons and Dragons rules subforum.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
as it says inside the reaction casting time rules above... reactions can only be cast in response to their triggers... your turn, other turns, whenever
if the trigger is met the reaction spell can be cast, so long as you have a reaction to cast it with.
You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be. The rule is that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on that turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Is any spell with a casting time of a reaction a cantrip with a casting time of one action? It's not an inference to say "no." It's not an inference to say "if something is not the one thing the rule says you can cast, then you can't cast it." It's literally what the rule says on its face. All this talk of reactions being on an "island" is entirely irrelevant.
And as it says in the bonus action spell rule, the only spells you can cast in the same turn you cast with a bonus action are cantrips with a cast time of one action, which reaction spells are not. It's not complicated. If the trigger is met on the same turn you cast a spell with a bonus action, you can't cast a spell in reaction to it.