Still, you didnt clear my point. "You are in the process of casting a spell".
If what (almost) everyone is saying is true, then you actually already shoot the fireball, the opponent casts his counterspell on the already ongoing fireball, and then you start casting counterspell too.
Is that how it is?
Yes (or I think so, your question isn't really clear tbh).
If your issue is that the caster would effectively be casting two spells at once then yes that is what's happening. And yes it is allowed even if it seems counter to normal rules for spells.
Can you cast a reaction spell on your turn?
You sure can! Here’s a common way for it to happen: Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius also has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.
Counterspell has a casting time of "1 reaction". It's components are purely somatic.
I envisage this as a quick wave of the hand to counterspell another spell - thus a single quick wave whilst mid-casting of another spell doesn't disturb the casting of that other spell.
Never DM for a group of spellcasters with Counterspell who then face enemies who also have Counterspell. It becomes a game of Counterspell-tag.
Enemy 1 casts BDS (Big Damaging Spell). PC 1 casts Counterspell. Enemy 1 reacts to Counterspell PC 1's Counterspell. PC 2 reacts to Counterspell Enemy 1's Counterspell. Enemy 2 reacts to Counterspell PC 2's Counterspell.
And so on and so on. I've literally had to write it all down on paper during a session to figure out the entire chain for a combat once.
Honestly, I will just cast Absorb Elements instead of blowing my reaction on Counterspell only to have that Counterspelled and getting hit by the full power of the Fireball.
So, lets say caster A is in the process of casting a spell and caster B is reacting with a counterspell. Then, from this point of view, if caster A wants to counter the counterspell, he will have to abandon the process of the initial spell to react to counterspell. He can of course do this, but the initial spell will be lost.
There is no rule that says taking a reaction interrupts your spellcasting, and as SagaTympana pointed out in the previous page, Counterspell only has S components. Your current spell will require at most one hand to cast, so as long as you keep your other hand free (or you're willing to drop what it's holding) you can cast Counterspell concurrently. That's a pretty low bar for most arcane casters to clear.
Still, you didnt clear my point. "You are in the process of casting a spell".
If what (almost) everyone is saying is true, then you actually already shoot the fireball, the opponent casts his counterspell on the already ongoing fireball, and then you start casting counterspell too.
Is that how it is?
No, that's not how it is. You are in the process of casting a spell when someone attempts to Counterspell you. You can then attempt to CounterspelltheirCounterspell without interrupting your casting of the original spell. Reactions happen in a split second, and Counterspell has only a somatic component. You essentially cast Counterspell by just flicking your finger.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Counterspell requires you see the spell being cast. If for some reason the original caster cannot see the second caster casting counterspell, then the original caster cannot counter the counterspell.
While everyone brings up good points, even if a wizard could cast counterspell while casting fireball, realistically the answer is no.
An important thing to note is that counterspell takes the same amount of time, no matter who's casting it: one reaction. Because of this, if the first caster of counterspell starts before you, he finishes his spell before you too.
Once the counterspell against you has been cast, you can't reverse it, all it does is interrupt your casting, so by the time you finish casting the spell's already dead. So the answer would be no
While everyone brings up good points, even if a wizard could cast counterspell while casting fireball, realistically the answer is no.
An important thing to note is that counterspell takes the same amount of time, no matter who's casting it: one reaction. Because of this, if the first caster of counterspell starts before you, he finishes his spell before you too.
Once the counterspell against you has been cast, you can't reverse it, all it does is interrupt your casting, so by the time you finish casting the spell's already dead. So the answer would be no
None of that is correct. There is nothing about counterspell that prevents it from countering reaction spells. That’s not how the game works.
Counterspell uses 1 reaction "which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell" which to me means you take this reaction on your opponent's turn. A reaction "can occur on your turn or on someone else's" and "[w]hen you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction." Also, under casting time reactions, the PHB states, "These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event."
If a wizard casts a fireball spell, that is done on her turn (as an action), and the counterspell to that fireball cast by player is done on the wizard's turn (not the player's). It is clear that the Sage Advice Compendium (page 12) allows the wizard here to cast her own counterspell to the counterspell to allow the fireball to proceed. That makes perfect sense since the wizard is allowed an action on their turn to cast the spell, and a reaction is also allowed (reaction is not bonus action) because it is special, and doesn't have the same limitations as the bonus action, whereby you can't cast another leveled spell when casting one with a bonus action. What is also true, though, is that when you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. PHB 190. That means the player can't take yet another reaction to cast another counterspell during the wizard's turn and the fireball would proceed. The limitation on taking reactions (PHB 190) precludes a lot of the back and forth counterspell action people have been discussing here.
But wait, there's more! One must consider that Counterspell allows you to take a reaction which you take when you see the casting of a spell, and that seeing and reacting to a spell that takes a full action to complete must inherently be different than seeing and reacting to one that takes (per PHB 202) "a fraction of a second". Were I to DM this, where the wizard casts fireball, the player casts Counterspell (on wizard's turn), wizard casts Counterspell to the Counterspell (on wizard's turn), all the while trying to also continue their Fireball spell, I would require of the wizard an ability check. How can the wizard (while concentrating on the Fireball casting) see a flick of a somatic gesture that takes a fraction of a second and, before that occurs, with their free hand, complete the somatic gesture required of their own concurrent Counterspell before the first one is completed? The answer is, while not impossible, and not against the rules, it is DIFFICULT. Any DM is entirely within the RAW to require an ability check when something seems like it would be hard. I would require the wizard to make a DC15 Constitution check to maintain concentration to continue casting their Fireball while noticing a spell cast in a fraction of a second and also casting one back. It doesn't seem impossible, but it does seem hard to do. And, since Counterspell has been criticized as kind of boring because it automatically stops spells of the same level, this will give that second Counterspell riposte to Counterspell a little more variation. It might just fail to work out, given the difficulty. Alternately, if it succeeds, wow. Way to go wizard.
I know it's already been answered but I want to correct a small thing. The rule isn't that you can't cast two leveled spells per turn its that if you use a bonus action to cast a leveled spell then you can't use your action to cast one. That's why you can cast a leveled spell and counterspell. Counterspell is a reaction not an action.
Officially the answer is yes but I want to introduce a technical reason for why you can disrupt the counterspell before they stop your fireball. You're able to hold action and when you do so if the trigger for you to release your hold on a spell that spell slot is still spent because a spell is counted as cast when you start your incantation meaning the magic begins taking effect when you START casting. So, in theory, when you begin casting counterspell it would already start destabilizing a spell's incantation preventing it from taking effect until you finish the cast and effectively disrupt the spell or until you are counterspelled thus destabilizing your cast.
(sorry if the run on sentence makes this hard to read)
I know that. It's an inference based on how the uses of spells works. That comment was made to give a more cohesive reason for why it would work from a roleplay perspective. It was already confirmed that you can counterspell a counterspell when you're already casting the fireball so I was just giving a way to look at it to make it make a little more sense. My inclusion of the word "technical" probably skewed that purpose a bit.
Yes (or I think so, your question isn't really clear tbh).
If your issue is that the caster would effectively be casting two spells at once then yes that is what's happening. And yes it is allowed even if it seems counter to normal rules for spells.
This is from the SAG, scroll doen to "Casting Time".
Its clear to me now since its official.
Its making no sense, but thats the rule :p
Counterspell has a casting time of "1 reaction". It's components are purely somatic.
I envisage this as a quick wave of the hand to counterspell another spell - thus a single quick wave whilst mid-casting of another spell doesn't disturb the casting of that other spell.
Honestly, I will just cast Absorb Elements instead of blowing my reaction on Counterspell only to have that Counterspelled and getting hit by the full power of the Fireball.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
There is no rule that says taking a reaction interrupts your spellcasting, and as SagaTympana pointed out in the previous page, Counterspell only has S components. Your current spell will require at most one hand to cast, so as long as you keep your other hand free (or you're willing to drop what it's holding) you can cast Counterspell concurrently. That's a pretty low bar for most arcane casters to clear.
No, that's not how it is. You are in the process of casting a spell when someone attempts to Counterspell you. You can then attempt to Counterspell their Counterspell without interrupting your casting of the original spell. Reactions happen in a split second, and Counterspell has only a somatic component. You essentially cast Counterspell by just flicking your finger.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Since there's only the somatic component of counterspell as well, what if that first spellcaster does not see the counterspell motions?
Counterspell's trigger requires that you see the spell being cast. If you can't see it, there's no trigger.
Counterspell requires you see the spell being cast. If for some reason the original caster cannot see the second caster casting counterspell, then the original caster cannot counter the counterspell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Wait till they discover you can Fireball, counterspell, action surge fireball in the same round.
In fairness, by the time you're a level 16 fighter, you ought to have some pretty impressive tricks up your sleeve.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I was thinking more of a 2nd level fighter, 5th level wizard multi-class but that works too.
You would need to be a level 6 wizard to have three level three spell slots without help.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
While everyone brings up good points, even if a wizard could cast counterspell while casting fireball, realistically the answer is no.
An important thing to note is that counterspell takes the same amount of time, no matter who's casting it: one reaction. Because of this, if the first caster of counterspell starts before you, he finishes his spell before you too.
Once the counterspell against you has been cast, you can't reverse it, all it does is interrupt your casting, so by the time you finish casting the spell's already dead. So the answer would be no
None of that is correct. There is nothing about counterspell that prevents it from countering reaction spells. That’s not how the game works.
Counterspell uses 1 reaction "which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell" which to me means you take this reaction on your opponent's turn. A reaction "can occur on your turn or on someone else's" and "[w]hen you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction." Also, under casting time reactions, the PHB states, "These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event."
If a wizard casts a fireball spell, that is done on her turn (as an action), and the counterspell to that fireball cast by player is done on the wizard's turn (not the player's). It is clear that the Sage Advice Compendium (page 12) allows the wizard here to cast her own counterspell to the counterspell to allow the fireball to proceed. That makes perfect sense since the wizard is allowed an action on their turn to cast the spell, and a reaction is also allowed (reaction is not bonus action) because it is special, and doesn't have the same limitations as the bonus action, whereby you can't cast another leveled spell when casting one with a bonus action. What is also true, though, is that when you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. PHB 190. That means the player can't take yet another reaction to cast another counterspell during the wizard's turn and the fireball would proceed. The limitation on taking reactions (PHB 190) precludes a lot of the back and forth counterspell action people have been discussing here.
But wait, there's more! One must consider that Counterspell allows you to take a reaction which you take when you see the casting of a spell, and that seeing and reacting to a spell that takes a full action to complete must inherently be different than seeing and reacting to one that takes (per PHB 202) "a fraction of a second". Were I to DM this, where the wizard casts fireball, the player casts Counterspell (on wizard's turn), wizard casts Counterspell to the Counterspell (on wizard's turn), all the while trying to also continue their Fireball spell, I would require of the wizard an ability check. How can the wizard (while concentrating on the Fireball casting) see a flick of a somatic gesture that takes a fraction of a second and, before that occurs, with their free hand, complete the somatic gesture required of their own concurrent Counterspell before the first one is completed? The answer is, while not impossible, and not against the rules, it is DIFFICULT. Any DM is entirely within the RAW to require an ability check when something seems like it would be hard. I would require the wizard to make a DC15 Constitution check to maintain concentration to continue casting their Fireball while noticing a spell cast in a fraction of a second and also casting one back. It doesn't seem impossible, but it does seem hard to do. And, since Counterspell has been criticized as kind of boring because it automatically stops spells of the same level, this will give that second Counterspell riposte to Counterspell a little more variation. It might just fail to work out, given the difficulty. Alternately, if it succeeds, wow. Way to go wizard.
I know it's already been answered but I want to correct a small thing. The rule isn't that you can't cast two leveled spells per turn its that if you use a bonus action to cast a leveled spell then you can't use your action to cast one. That's why you can cast a leveled spell and counterspell. Counterspell is a reaction not an action.
Officially the answer is yes but I want to introduce a technical reason for why you can disrupt the counterspell before they stop your fireball. You're able to hold action and when you do so if the trigger for you to release your hold on a spell that spell slot is still spent because a spell is counted as cast when you start your incantation meaning the magic begins taking effect when you START casting. So, in theory, when you begin casting counterspell it would already start destabilizing a spell's incantation preventing it from taking effect until you finish the cast and effectively disrupt the spell or until you are counterspelled thus destabilizing your cast.
(sorry if the run on sentence makes this hard to read)
Nothing in the rules for casting a spell as a delayed action specifies that this is how it works.
I know that. It's an inference based on how the uses of spells works. That comment was made to give a more cohesive reason for why it would work from a roleplay perspective. It was already confirmed that you can counterspell a counterspell when you're already casting the fireball so I was just giving a way to look at it to make it make a little more sense. My inclusion of the word "technical" probably skewed that purpose a bit.