No, the spell creates a spell attack. No weapon makes the attack at all, whether improvised or not.
SAC is clear that an attack “with a weapon” is a weapon attack, totally un-interchangeable with a magic attack.
if it was meant to work like shilleighly but ranged, the author could have written the opposite way of Fire Arrow, a spell they also wrote that is clear about such interactions
SAC clarifies that “ranged weapon attack” means a ranged attack with a weapon, not the opposite this has been repeatedly posted.
No one argues that magic stone makes ranged weapon attack, it doesn't. It specifically makes ranged spell attack hurled with a weapon instead. As the Dev said, its a spell attack you're making with a sling
The spell text explicitly says that the attack can be made "with a sling." There is no rational way to suggest that the attack is not being made with a sling if you make it with a sling. That is the exact wording used by the text. This is possibly the most insane argument I've ever seen on these boards.
It explicitly does not say you make an attack with a sling.
It absolutely does. If you make a ranged attack with a pebble by hurling it with a sling, you are using a sling to make a ranged spell attack. If you are using a thing to perform an act, you are performing an act with that thing. That is what the word "with" means. This is definitional. Your position has no basis in the language the text is written in.
So "with" means the thing you want it to mean in the second case ("with the sling"), but not the first ("with the pebble"). Got it.
Anyway, now we're back to: if you are "performing the act of" attacking with a sling, why does your skill with a sling not matter in the slightest? No one's even bothered trying to explain that so far, only hand-wave it away
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The reason you don't use the weapon proficiency, associated ability score, damage and range statistic is because the spell specifically tell you otherwise and make it a ranged spell attack, factoring your proficiency bonus and ability score while providing specific damage and range.
What happen is that you put the magic stone in a sling, and swing it with the weapon based on what's written in the spell RAW, RAI and RAF !
The reason you don't use the weapon proficiency, associated ability score, damage and range statistic is because the spell specifically tell you otherwise and make it a ranged spell attack, factoring your proficiency bonus and ability score while providing specific damage and range.
What happen is that you put the magic stone in a sling, and swing it with the weapon based on what's written in the spell RAW, RAI and RAF !
So the spell is telling you the sling is irrelevant to the attack, and yet you keep trying to make it relevant
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SAC clarifies that “ranged weapon attack” means a ranged attack with a weapon, not the opposite this has been repeatedly posted.
Its been repeatedly posted, but not well argued. If one is the definition of the other, then both are equivalent. Its like you think "Sean Connery" and "the Scottish actor who played James Bond in Gold Finger" can't be equivalent descriptions of the same thing without any explanation why you believe such a weird thing.
No one argues that magic stone makes ranged weapon attack, it doesn't. It specifically makes ranged spell attack hurled with a weapon instead. As the Dev said, its a spell attack you're making with a sling
You keep repeatedly pointing out what the dev said in a tweet after I've repeatedly pointed you to the official ruling saying those tweets have no official bearing on the rules.
The spell doesn't say the sling is irrelevant these are your own words. The sling is relevant to the attack when hurled with it since it can qualify for feature attacking with a weapon.
The spell doesn't say the sling is irrelevant these are your own words. The sling is relevant to the attack when hurled with it since it can qualify for feature attacking with a weapon.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You keep repeatedly pointing out what the dev said in a tweet after I've repeatedly pointed you to the official ruling saying those tweets have no official bearing on the rules.
No one said the Devs tweets had official bearing, lacking official ruling on the specific question, we're left with giving opinions on it, which an opinion from the Dev can be pertinent info to have but everyone is free to ignore or rule otherwise of course.
The reason you don't use the weapon proficiency, associated ability score, damage and range statistic is because the spell specifically tell you otherwise and make it a ranged spell attack, factoring your proficiency bonus and ability score while providing specific damage and range.
What happen is that you put the magic stone in a sling, and swing it with the weapon based on what's written in the spell RAW, RAI and RAF !
So the spell is telling you the sling is irrelevant to the attack, and yet you keep trying to make it relevant
No one said the Devs tweets had official bearing, lacking official ruling on the specific question, we're left with giving opinions on it, which an opinion from the Dev can be pertinent info to have but everyone is free to ignore or rule otherwise of course.
We have official rulings on spells like Green Flame Blade and how they function because they are explicit in how they mix spell and weapons.
And we have official rulings defining what an attack with a weapon is, even if you don't seem to like that.
So we can rely on official rulings for what is RAW here. No need for unofficial opinions.
I think… 3 or 4 times between the 2 threads Kronzypants keeps quoting the same thing from the SAC and their errata about the melee attack unarmed strike blah blah blah. And using it for “equivalence”
but… if you scroll down a “little bit”. In the exact same SAC under spellcasting you see this:
Can you use green-flame blade and booming blade with Extra Attack, opportunity attacks, Sneak Attack, and other weapon attack options?
“Introduced in the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, the green-flame blade and booming blade spells pose a number of questions, because they each do something unusual: require you to make a me- lee attack with a weapon as part of the spell’s casting. First, each of these spells involves a normal melee weapon attack, not a spell attack, so you use whatever abil- ity modifier you normally use with the weapon. (A spell tells you if it includes a spell attack, and neither of these spells do.) For example, if you use a longsword with green-flame blade, you use your Strength modifier for the weapon’s at- tack and damage rolls. Second, neither green-flame blade nor booming blade works with Extra Attack or any other feature that requires the Attack action. Like other spells, these cantrips require the Cast a Spell action, not the Attack action, and they can’t be used to make an opportunity attack, unless a special fea- ture allows you to do so. Third, these weapon attacks work with Sneak Attack if they fulfill the normal requirements for that feature. For ex- ample, if you have the Sneak Attack feature and cast green- flame blade with a finesse weapon, you can deal Sneak At- tack damage to the target of the weapon attack if you have advantage on the attack roll and hit.”
the third point especially: if magic stone fulfills the normal requirements for the sharpshooter feature. You can use that feature. Plain and simple clearly stated right there. Equivalence.
If you ignore the first two points in that section, ignore the section above that defining what is a weapon attack, and pretend magic stone is phrased like Shilleighly… sure
If you ignore the first two points in that section, ignore the section above that defining what is a weapon attack, and pretend magic stone is phrased like Shilleighly… sure
We can't use spells making melee weapon attack as counter argument to one making ranged spell attack with a weapon, they don't relate. magic stone, is unique it's the only one worded that way i believe.
If you ignore the first two points in that section, ignore the section above that defining what is a weapon attack, and pretend magic stone is phrased like Shilleighly… sure
What people have done in this thread is using the SAC Q&A on what a ranged weapon attack is to refute a ranged spell attack hurled with a sling not being an attack with a weapon because it's not a ranged weapon attack, but the feat 3rd bullet doesn't need to be a ranged weapon attack, so a ranged spell attack hurled with a sling qualify no one can say it's not an attack made with a ranged weapon the spell clearly say it's done with a sling.
no one can say it's not an attack made with a ranged weapon the spell clearly say it's done with a sling.
And yet, someone (cough) has said exactly that. It's not an attack made "with" a sling in any way that is meaningful. It's an attack made with a magically embued pebble, that may or may not involve a sling as an irrelevant accessory, the presence or absence of which has no effect at all on the results of the attack
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No, the spell creates a spell attack. No weapon makes the attack at all, whether improvised or not.
SAC is clear that an attack “with a weapon” is a weapon attack, totally un-interchangeable with a magic attack.
if it was meant to work like shilleighly but ranged, the author could have written the opposite way of Fire Arrow, a spell they also wrote that is clear about such interactions
SAC clarifies that “ranged weapon attack” means a ranged attack with a weapon, not the opposite this has been repeatedly posted.
No one argues that magic stone makes ranged weapon attack, it doesn't. It specifically makes ranged spell attack hurled with a weapon instead. As the Dev said, its a spell attack you're making with a sling
So "with" means the thing you want it to mean in the second case ("with the sling"), but not the first ("with the pebble"). Got it.
Anyway, now we're back to: if you are "performing the act of" attacking with a sling, why does your skill with a sling not matter in the slightest? No one's even bothered trying to explain that so far, only hand-wave it away
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The reason you don't use the weapon proficiency, associated ability score, damage and range statistic is because the spell specifically tell you otherwise and make it a ranged spell attack, factoring your proficiency bonus and ability score while providing specific damage and range.
What happen is that you put the magic stone in a sling, and swing it with the weapon based on what's written in the spell RAW, RAI and RAF !
So the spell is telling you the sling is irrelevant to the attack, and yet you keep trying to make it relevant
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Its been repeatedly posted, but not well argued. If one is the definition of the other, then both are equivalent. Its like you think "Sean Connery" and "the Scottish actor who played James Bond in Gold Finger" can't be equivalent descriptions of the same thing without any explanation why you believe such a weird thing.
You keep repeatedly pointing out what the dev said in a tweet after I've repeatedly pointed you to the official ruling saying those tweets have no official bearing on the rules.
The spell doesn't say the sling is irrelevant these are your own words. The sling is relevant to the attack when hurled with it since it can qualify for feature attacking with a weapon.
This is literally begging the question
Active characters:
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Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
No one said the Devs tweets had official bearing, lacking official ruling on the specific question, we're left with giving opinions on it, which an opinion from the Dev can be pertinent info to have but everyone is free to ignore or rule otherwise of course.
the sling is irrelevant to the DAMAGE....
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We have official rulings on spells like Green Flame Blade and how they function because they are explicit in how they mix spell and weapons.
And we have official rulings defining what an attack with a weapon is, even if you don't seem to like that.
So we can rely on official rulings for what is RAW here. No need for unofficial opinions.
If there was an official ruling in SAC about magic stone, the thread wouldn't be 8+ pages ☺
If the conversation actually addressed what is there, the thread would be pretty short
There is... its even Referenced in here... by multiple people...
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If you ignore the first two points in that section, ignore the section above that defining what is a weapon attack, and pretend magic stone is phrased like Shilleighly… sure
There is no question in the SAC on this spell.
We can't use spells making melee weapon attack as counter argument to one making ranged spell attack with a weapon, they don't relate. magic stone, is unique it's the only one worded that way i believe.
What people have done in this thread is using the SAC Q&A on what a ranged weapon attack is to refute a ranged spell attack hurled with a sling not being an attack with a weapon because it's not a ranged weapon attack, but the feat 3rd bullet doesn't need to be a ranged weapon attack, so a ranged spell attack hurled with a sling qualify no one can say it's not an attack made with a ranged weapon the spell clearly say it's done with a sling.
And yet, someone (cough) has said exactly that. It's not an attack made "with" a sling in any way that is meaningful. It's an attack made with a magically embued pebble, that may or may not involve a sling as an irrelevant accessory, the presence or absence of which has no effect at all on the results of the attack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)