I'm going to go with a million of anything vs the world, the world wins. But it's much worse than that - it's only just 1000 vs the world. Wizards seem like super powerful dudes, but they're really not. They (literally) cannot do much of anything - on the battlefield - that an infantryman cannot do.
I already hear the objections: Wizards can summon demons/reverse gravity/cover the battlefield in illusions/whatever.
But ... a demon is just a larger infantryman, reverse gravity happens all the time (briefly, as a result of explosion), soldiers use stealth, camouflage, smoke and so on. One high level wizard is certainly more powerful than one infantryman - but we have zillions of them. Not to mention that on top of the man+rifle combo, we have artillery, ballistic missiles, fighter-bombers, and so on. For the most part, the man+rifle has enough range to defeat any wizard, no contest. Hand grenades, night vision (that's much greater than 30'), supply and command structures, surveillance satellites, hunter/killer drones.
Wish isn't any sort of issue. I say that because - any use of wish that would just end the fight, falls into the category of 'spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might be achieved only in part, or you might suffer an unforeseen consequence'. Because otherwise, why even ask the question? Why have more than just a single wizard - or even just some random mook with a ring of 3 wishes.
The real weaknesses of D&D casters are that they're out of spells after a few minutes no matter how high level they are, and that when compared to modern weaponry, their spells are mostly at knife-fighting range.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
There are 2,021 Waffle Houses spread across 25 States in the USA. If the wizards can cause at least half of them to close, the wizards win.
If not, humanity wins. We'll give them one year.
I've got my money on Waffle House.
"I wish for all Waffle houses to close."
The wish fails due to the God of Waffle House saying no, he’s beyond any deity's power to stop, and he gives the wizard a restraining order and calls him a hex offender
Okay, now hold up. This isn't as easy as it sounds. :
All of them can cast various cantrips and 1st-level spells.
500,000 can cast 2nd-level spells, along with the spells above.
That's a lot of dead politicians.
I don’t think politicians walk around willy nilly without some bodyguards or security. And I think a random dude sputtering nonsense and spamming their hands while holding up an old stick might get tazed before they could cast a spell.
Even if only 100,000 of the casters are wizards, getting within 120 feet isn't impossible. Magic Missiles don't miss. The casters can afford losses in order to eliminate many heads of state. No stick required.
Then the 1000 druids ruin everybody else's day from a mile away.
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
So you're essentially saying the person who created this thread is the DM for that and would block wish because the question is solved otherwise? Seems like a pretty big assumption to me.
No, that is absolutely not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's literally in the rules of the spell that the more you wish for, the greater the chance it fails. Since you're asking for totally alter the world, it autofails.
But also, there's really no point in discussing who wins, if one side has an 'I win' button.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
The Waffle House Index is not actually used by FEMA.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The guy who coined that term was the Director of FEMA. He used it when he ran FEMA. It may not be "officially sanctioned terminology", but it is a real thing used by various disaster relief agencies, including FEMA.
So you're essentially saying the person who created this thread is the DM for that and would block wish because the question is solved otherwise? Seems like a pretty big assumption to me.
No, that is absolutely not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's literally in the rules of the spell that the more you wish for, the greater the chance it fails. Since you're asking for totally alter the world, it autofails.
Yes, but the wish can be divided into an average of 3,000 smaller wishes if everybody has wish and coordinates.
But also, there's really no point in discussing who wins, if one side has an 'I win' button.
Yes, but the wish can be divided into an average of 3,000 smaller wishes if everybody has wish and coordinates.
I see what you mean, but I don't really agree. Yes, technically, but the wizards lack all of the communication tools that would make that possible. No radio, no internet, no satellites, no phones, no nothing at all except the occasional spell. And they're not a military hierarchy (well possibly they are, but if we're handing out favors, I have some I want to hand out to the other side too).
Swift and precise force management and target assignment simply doesn't work for the magic side.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
“I wish to cast Meteor Swarm on every Waffle House.”
The Waffle House may be strong, but it’s not title card.
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
“I wish to cast Meteor Swarm on every Waffle House.”
The Waffle House may be strong, but it’s not title card.
Wish can't duplicate one 9th level spell, much less hundreds of them. Nor can it, per your previous post, disintegrate thousands or millions of tons of material.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
“I wish to cast Meteor Swarm on every Waffle House.”
The Waffle House may be strong, but it’s not title card.
Wish can't duplicate one 9th level spell, much less hundreds of them. Nor can it, per your previous post, disintegrate thousands or millions of tons of material.
You have an argument for duplicating spells, as that really falls under the established rules, but what is stopping you from using it to disintegrate large amounts of material?
Every Waffle House employee has proficiency in improvised weapons. Waffle House servers have resistance to "thrown furniture damage". If you see two people having a knife fight in a Waffle House parking lot, that's not a crime in progress, that's just how they do the employees' performance reviews. And they've got 40,000 employees!
And you think something as pedantic as a Meteor Swarm is going to worry them? At Waffle House, that's just a slow Tuesday.
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
“I wish to cast Meteor Swarm on every Waffle House.”
The Waffle House may be strong, but it’s not title card.
Wish can't duplicate one 9th level spell, much less hundreds of them. Nor can it, per your previous post, disintegrate thousands or millions of tons of material.
You have an argument for duplicating spells, as that really falls under the established rules, but what is stopping you from using it to disintegrate large amounts of material?
Because Disintegrate is an existing spell, so the best Wish could do is upcast it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Wish can't duplicate one 9th level spell, much less hundreds of them. Nor can it, per your previous post, disintegrate thousands or millions of tons of material.
You have an argument for duplicating spells, as that really falls under the established rules, but what is stopping you from using it to disintegrate large amounts of material?
Because Disintegrate is an existing spell, so the best Wish could do is upcast it.
That's not how that works. For example, if you heal somebody, that doesn't mean you're casting cure wounds.
That's because Wish's healing effect is an explicitly described ability of the spell. Wishing to destroy huge amounts of matter is not. The spell's description states that simply attempting to Wish someone dead can potentially backfire on the caster in a way that functionally removes them from the game. Destroying all plastic or tank armor or the like in the world is well beyond that in terms of attempting to rewrite reality and as such is guaranteed to backfire, so at best you'd be able to get the upcast Disintegrate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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The real weaknesses of D&D casters are that they're out of spells after a few minutes no matter how high level they are, and that when compared to modern weaponry, their spells are mostly at knife-fighting range.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The "Win Conditions" are simple.
There are 2,021 Waffle Houses spread across 25 States in the USA. If the wizards can cause at least half of them to close, the wizards win.
If not, humanity wins. We'll give them one year.
I've got my money on Waffle House.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
"I wish for all Waffle houses to close."
The wish fails due to the God of Waffle House saying no, he’s beyond any deity's power to stop, and he gives the wizard a restraining order and calls him a hex offender
Even if only 100,000 of the casters are wizards, getting within 120 feet isn't impossible. Magic Missiles don't miss. The casters can afford losses in order to eliminate many heads of state. No stick required.
Then the 1000 druids ruin everybody else's day from a mile away.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Wizard: "I Wish for all Waffle Houses to close."
Waffle House: "No."
And that's that. Seriously. Even FEMA uses Waffle House closures to measure the severity of natural disasters! it's literally called "The Waffle House Index"!
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
No, that is absolutely not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's literally in the rules of the spell that the more you wish for, the greater the chance it fails. Since you're asking for totally alter the world, it autofails.
But also, there's really no point in discussing who wins, if one side has an 'I win' button.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The Waffle House Index is not actually used by FEMA.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The guy who coined that term was the Director of FEMA. He used it when he ran FEMA. It may not be "officially sanctioned terminology", but it is a real thing used by various disaster relief agencies, including FEMA.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Yes, but the wish can be divided into an average of 3,000 smaller wishes if everybody has wish and coordinates.
Exactly.
I see what you mean, but I don't really agree. Yes, technically, but the wizards lack all of the communication tools that would make that possible. No radio, no internet, no satellites, no phones, no nothing at all except the occasional spell. And they're not a military hierarchy (well possibly they are, but if we're handing out favors, I have some I want to hand out to the other side too).
Swift and precise force management and target assignment simply doesn't work for the magic side.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
9th Spell Slot Wizard 1: “I wish to know what the technology faction’s twenty most important materials are”
9th Spell Slot Wizard 2: “I wish for all [twenty most important materials] owned by the technology faction and their allies to disintegrate”
there goes all the like
metal and plastic and shit
Thank you.
“I wish to cast Meteor Swarm on every Waffle House.”
The Waffle House may be strong, but it’s not title card.
Wish can't duplicate one 9th level spell, much less hundreds of them. Nor can it, per your previous post, disintegrate thousands or millions of tons of material.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You have an argument for duplicating spells, as that really falls under the established rules, but what is stopping you from using it to disintegrate large amounts of material?
Every Waffle House employee has proficiency in improvised weapons. Waffle House servers have resistance to "thrown furniture damage". If you see two people having a knife fight in a Waffle House parking lot, that's not a crime in progress, that's just how they do the employees' performance reviews. And they've got 40,000 employees!
And you think something as pedantic as a Meteor Swarm is going to worry them? At Waffle House, that's just a slow Tuesday.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Because Disintegrate is an existing spell, so the best Wish could do is upcast it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's not how that works. For example, if you heal somebody, that doesn't mean you're casting cure wounds.
That's because Wish's healing effect is an explicitly described ability of the spell. Wishing to destroy huge amounts of matter is not. The spell's description states that simply attempting to Wish someone dead can potentially backfire on the caster in a way that functionally removes them from the game. Destroying all plastic or tank armor or the like in the world is well beyond that in terms of attempting to rewrite reality and as such is guaranteed to backfire, so at best you'd be able to get the upcast Disintegrate.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.