The Celestial patron gives you 2 bonus cantrips too. I played one with Pact of the Tome and I had 7 cantrips at 4th level without the Magic Initiate Feat. I ended up having one cantrip that I never used. It was great being able to pick cantrips from other classes though, that’s worth having more cantrips than you use!
We have a Tips and Tricks forum if this is just some arbitrary tip. We have a Warlock forum for any deep discussion on making effective use of a Warlock. There's also already threads in the Warlock forum about how to get more cantrips as a warlock (forums have a Search function for a reason).
General Discussion is for a Discussion about pretty much anything else not fitting other forums. But, your choice of phrasing doesn't invite much discussion. Are you aiming to have a discussion about cantrips generally? Or something? Sorry, not understanding your point/intention behind this thread.
The Celestial patron gives you 2 bonus cantrips too. I played one with Pact of the Tome and I had 7 cantrips at 4th level without the Magic Initiate Feat. I ended up having one cantrip that I never used. It was great being able to pick cantrips from other classes though, that’s worth having more cantrips than you use!
Going with the Celestrial patron you have 4 to start then for level 2 multi-class to Sorcerer(recommend Dragon Sorcerer) then you have 8, 11 when you get to Warlock level 3 and go Tome, 13 with the feat at Warlock level 4 I recommend Bard that way all cantrips use Charisma as casting stat, and now your character is level 5 hope somewhere you got scag cantrips.
We have a Tips and Tricks forum if this is just some arbitrary tip. We have a Warlock forum for any deep discussion on making effective use of a Warlock. There's also already threads in the Warlock forum about how to get more cantrips as a warlock (forums have a Search function for a reason).
General Discussion is for a Discussion about pretty much anything else not fitting other forums. But, your choice of phrasing doesn't invite much discussion. Are you aiming to have a discussion about cantrips generally? Or something? Sorry, not understanding your point/intention behind this thread.
Since this is a tips and tactics forum I see it as a ‘tip’ for someone who likes more variety in their cantrips. Maybe their character isn’t going to go above level 5 and won’t have very many spells. I would say this is the right forum.
We have a Tips and Tricks forum if this is just some arbitrary tip. We have a Warlock forum for any deep discussion on making effective use of a Warlock. There's also already threads in the Warlock forum about how to get more cantrips as a warlock (forums have a Search function for a reason).
General Discussion is for a Discussion about pretty much anything else not fitting other forums. But, your choice of phrasing doesn't invite much discussion. Are you aiming to have a discussion about cantrips generally? Or something? Sorry, not understanding your point/intention behind this thread.
Since this is a tips and tactics forum I see it as a ‘tip’ for someone who likes more variety in their cantrips. Maybe their character isn’t going to go above level 5 and won’t have very many spells. I would say this is the right forum.
Variant human magic initiate feat, 3 levels celestial warlock for bonus cantrips and pact of tome, 1 level sorcerer. Level 4 13 cantrips, almost doubled it. That is a tip.
Variant human magic initiate feat, 3 levels celestial warlock for bonus cantrips and pact of tome, 1 level sorcerer. Level 4 13 cantrips, almost doubled it. That is a tip.
1st off, I'm sick as a dog, so if things make no sense, you know why
Someone suggested the Dragon Path for a Sorcerer, I just multi-classed my warlock and chose the option that lets you pick spells from other classes. (Currently trying to kill out group's Paladin) So I wanted healing word/cure wounds to help.
Are their advantages going dragon over getting the cleric spells? I serve Tiamat as my fiend
So you're saying... you're a warlock, you're multiclassing sorcerer and are asking whether Draconic Bloodline or Divine Soul are better options?
The advantage of Divine Soul, like you pointed out, is it lets you pick healing spells like healing word and cure wounds as sorcerer spells. If you're trying to be the dedicated healer for the group as a Warlock/Sorcerer, this is pretty important. If you're already a celestial warlock (unclear whether this is the case), this is a little less important, since you have access to cure wounds and a pool of healing d6's through that class already... but for flexibility and theme, it definitely wouldn't hurt to be a Divine Soul Sorcerer at the same time, and the level 6 class feature is pretty nice for a healer. And (in the spirit of this thread), you end up with a bigger pool of cantrips to pick from then a normal sorcerer would (specifically, Guidance, Resistance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, Word of Radiance, and Thaumaturgy).
I think the reason that Jacqsyn mentioned Draconic Bloodline as their recommended sorcerer subclass is that their level 6 feature lets you add charisma to spell damage of spells that use their bloodline's element. So since this thread is talking about cantrips... that's one really good way to make your cantrips feel more important during combat, by getting you that +Cha flat damage bonus that cantrips generally don't get. Specifically in conjunction with a Celestial Warlock, they also get to add their Cha bonus to spells that deal radiant or fire damage at level 6... for a celestial warlock/draconic bloodline (fire) sorcerer would be able to add their charisma bonus twice each time they roll damage for something like fire bolt. However, if you're a warlock multiclass there's really no reason not to be using Eldritch Blast as your go-to attack cantrip, as there's a Warlock invocation that lets you add +Cha on each bolt, which far outdamages any other cantrip from a different spell list.
For my two cents, I would build a Warlock (Celestial) with eldritch blast as one of your cantrips, the agonizing blast eldritch invocation, and then nothing but non-combat utility cantrips and spells for the rest of your picks. Then, multiclass Sorcerer (Divine Soul), and again use all of your cantrip and spell picks for non-combat stuff like the amazing Guidance and Resistance. Eldritch Blast with agonizing blast is so good that it out damages leveled spells, you're free to take nothing but heals/buffs/utility spells that your party will love you for, don't even bother with anything that rolls damage, because you've already got your best attack spell in hand from level 1... which actually makes you feel incredibly versatile, because you can start to take niche utility or RP spells without feeling like you're nerfing yourself in combat, because you always have EB to fall back on.
1st off, I'm sick as a dog, so if things make no sense, you know why
Someone suggested the Dragon Path for a Sorcerer, I just multi-classed my warlock and chose the option that lets you pick spells from other classes. (Currently trying to kill out group's Paladin) So I wanted healing word/cure wounds to help.
Are their advantages going dragon over getting the cleric spells? I serve Tiamat as my fiend
I take it you are a fiend warlock. Agonizing blast and book of ancient secrets (pact of tome) are the two invocations I prioritize, repelling blast is my third pick.
I think divine soul will be the better pick, you can prioritize support, control, and utility spells. Guidance is a great support/utility cantrip, thorn whip and vicious mockery (have to get these two with pact of tome) are good support/control cantrips. Bless, cure wounds, and healing word are all great level 1 cleric spells to get.
So you're saying... you're a warlock, you're multiclassing sorcerer and are asking whether Draconic Bloodline or Divine Soul are better options?
The advantage of Divine Soul, like you pointed out, is it lets you pick healing spells like healing word and cure wounds as sorcerer spells. If you're trying to be the dedicated healer for the group as a Warlock/Sorcerer, this is pretty important. If you're already a celestial warlock (unclear whether this is the case), this is a little less important, since you have access to cure wounds and a pool of healing d6's through that class already... but for flexibility and theme, it definitely wouldn't hurt to be a Divine Soul Sorcerer at the same time, and the level 6 class feature is pretty nice for a healer. And (in the spirit of this thread), you end up with a bigger pool of cantrips to pick from then a normal sorcerer would (specifically, Guidance, Resistance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, Word of Radiance, and Thaumaturgy).
I think the reason that Jacqsyn mentioned Draconic Bloodline as their recommended sorcerer subclass is that their level 6 feature lets you add charisma to spell damage of spells that use their bloodline's element. So since this thread is talking about cantrips... that's one really good way to make your cantrips feel more important during combat, by getting you that +Cha flat damage bonus that cantrips generally don't get. Specifically in conjunction with a Celestial Warlock, they also get to add their Cha bonus to spells that deal radiant or fire damage at level 6... for a celestial warlock/draconic bloodline (fire) sorcerer would be able to add their charisma bonus twice each time they roll damage for something like fire bolt. However, if you're a warlock multiclass there's really no reason not to be using Eldritch Blast as your go-to attack cantrip, as there's a Warlock invocation that lets you add +Cha on each bolt, which far outdamages any other cantrip from a different spell list.
For my two cents, I would build a Warlock (Celestial) with eldritch blast as one of your cantrips, the agonizing blast eldritch invocation, and then nothing but non-combat utility cantrips and spells for the rest of your picks. Then, multiclass Sorcerer (Divine Soul), and again use all of your cantrip and spell picks for non-combat stuff like the amazing Guidance and Resistance. Eldritch Blast with agonizing blast is so good that it out damages leveled spells, you're free to take nothing but heals/buffs/utility spells that your party will love you for, don't even bother with anything that rolls damage, because you've already got your best attack spell in hand from level 1... which actually makes you feel incredibly versatile, because you can start to take niche utility or RP spells without feeling like you're nerfing yourself in combat, because you always have EB to fall back on.
Well actually I mentioned Draconic bloodline for the eventual bonus to damage, but main reason was free Mage Armor and the +1 Hit Point per level which effectively gives them a d8 Hit Die instead of the d6 hit die as per all sorcerers when using the averaged hit points per level. Is it just me or does this keep going from general discussions to tips and tactics and back and forth?
Everything is a tip! And everything is a discussion! :D
Yeah, the +1 HP is nice, but if we're talking about a (non hexblade) warlock/sorcerer hybrid, I assume we're talking about a backline caster that doesn't necessarily care as much about HP and AC. The free mage armor doesn't seem that valuable on a warlock/sorcerer hybrid either, since Warlocks have access to that with an invocation as well... but the devil is in the details, it's hard to say that one is "better" than the other since they probably lend themselves to very different builds! You actually inspired me to mess around with sketching out a Cleric (Arcane) 8/Sorcerer (Draconic-Red) 6/Warlock (Celestial) 6 build that adds Charisma twice and Wisdom once to each firebolt, which might aaaaaalmost be as good as slinging around Eldritch Blast if you squint at it the right way? :p
If your going all that then please do not forget to get Green-Flame Blade as it gets attribute mod in damage to second target. But speaking of attribute mods I do not think you can add the +Cha for Sorcerer and Warlock together, and I believe the Arcane cleric only gets it for Cleric spells which the arcane cantrips you select at 1st level count as, which puts them into a Wisdom mod as they are no longer Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock spells. I may be mistaken but I may have misread it, The reason for the draconic is it frees up the incantation of Armor of Shadows for a more useful Incantation.
The features that add +cha from sorcerer (Elemental Affinity) and warlock (Radiant Soul) have different names, and thus stack. The cleric feature (Potent Spellcasting) is the only one that asks for "a cleric spell", both of the others just ask for spells that deal fire damage, regardless of class.
As for whether a feature like Arcane Initiate implies that by making something a cleric cantrip it also takes it off the class list of every other class it would normally appear on? I'm not aware of any rule language that would imply that, but I'm also not really sure where in the PHB or DMG class spell lists are fully explained as a general concept, so its possible I'm missing something. I guess Arcane Initiate doesn't actually say "add to your spell list," it says "count as cleric cantrips," so there could be some room for distinguishing that against other features that just add spells to spell lists... not sure if that's a question that's been resolved. But for this specific combo, again, its not really at question.
Warlock, pact of the tome. Magic Initiate Feat. Book of Ancient Secrets Eldritch Invocation. 7 cantrips and 2 free ritual spells by level 4. Have fun.
The Celestial patron gives you 2 bonus cantrips too. I played one with Pact of the Tome and I had 7 cantrips at 4th level without the Magic Initiate Feat. I ended up having one cantrip that I never used. It was great being able to pick cantrips from other classes though, that’s worth having more cantrips than you use!
Professional computer geek
OK. And?
We have a Tips and Tricks forum if this is just some arbitrary tip. We have a Warlock forum for any deep discussion on making effective use of a Warlock. There's also already threads in the Warlock forum about how to get more cantrips as a warlock (forums have a Search function for a reason).
General Discussion is for a Discussion about pretty much anything else not fitting other forums. But, your choice of phrasing doesn't invite much discussion. Are you aiming to have a discussion about cantrips generally? Or something? Sorry, not understanding your point/intention behind this thread.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
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I guess is it worth it to have so many?
Going with the Celestrial patron you have 4 to start then for level 2 multi-class to Sorcerer(recommend Dragon Sorcerer) then you have 8, 11 when you get to Warlock level 3 and go Tome, 13 with the feat at Warlock level 4 I recommend Bard that way all cantrips use Charisma as casting stat, and now your character is level 5 hope somewhere you got scag cantrips.
Since this is a tips and tactics forum I see it as a ‘tip’ for someone who likes more variety in their cantrips. Maybe their character isn’t going to go above level 5 and won’t have very many spells. I would say this is the right forum.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Ahhh. Missed that part
This tip barely counts as a tip.
You want to get crazy?
Variant human magic initiate feat, 3 levels celestial warlock for bonus cantrips and pact of tome, 1 level sorcerer. Level 4 13 cantrips, almost doubled it. That is a tip.
i am sorry for my mistake
It happens. And now you know even more ways to get cantrips at lower levels.
Who would do such a thing?
https://ddb.ac/characters/2501708/UaS2kR
I could squeeze a few more cantrips out of her of course, but my real characters are never quite as 'optimized' as my theoretical ones.
Extended Signature
1st off, I'm sick as a dog, so if things make no sense, you know why
Someone suggested the Dragon Path for a Sorcerer, I just multi-classed my warlock and chose the option that lets you pick spells from other classes. (Currently trying to kill out group's Paladin) So I wanted healing word/cure wounds to help.
Are their advantages going dragon over getting the cleric spells? I serve Tiamat as my fiend
So you're saying... you're a warlock, you're multiclassing sorcerer and are asking whether Draconic Bloodline or Divine Soul are better options?
The advantage of Divine Soul, like you pointed out, is it lets you pick healing spells like healing word and cure wounds as sorcerer spells. If you're trying to be the dedicated healer for the group as a Warlock/Sorcerer, this is pretty important. If you're already a celestial warlock (unclear whether this is the case), this is a little less important, since you have access to cure wounds and a pool of healing d6's through that class already... but for flexibility and theme, it definitely wouldn't hurt to be a Divine Soul Sorcerer at the same time, and the level 6 class feature is pretty nice for a healer. And (in the spirit of this thread), you end up with a bigger pool of cantrips to pick from then a normal sorcerer would (specifically, Guidance, Resistance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, Word of Radiance, and Thaumaturgy).
I think the reason that Jacqsyn mentioned Draconic Bloodline as their recommended sorcerer subclass is that their level 6 feature lets you add charisma to spell damage of spells that use their bloodline's element. So since this thread is talking about cantrips... that's one really good way to make your cantrips feel more important during combat, by getting you that +Cha flat damage bonus that cantrips generally don't get. Specifically in conjunction with a Celestial Warlock, they also get to add their Cha bonus to spells that deal radiant or fire damage at level 6... for a celestial warlock/draconic bloodline (fire) sorcerer would be able to add their charisma bonus twice each time they roll damage for something like fire bolt. However, if you're a warlock multiclass there's really no reason not to be using Eldritch Blast as your go-to attack cantrip, as there's a Warlock invocation that lets you add +Cha on each bolt, which far outdamages any other cantrip from a different spell list.
For my two cents, I would build a Warlock (Celestial) with eldritch blast as one of your cantrips, the agonizing blast eldritch invocation, and then nothing but non-combat utility cantrips and spells for the rest of your picks. Then, multiclass Sorcerer (Divine Soul), and again use all of your cantrip and spell picks for non-combat stuff like the amazing Guidance and Resistance. Eldritch Blast with agonizing blast is so good that it out damages leveled spells, you're free to take nothing but heals/buffs/utility spells that your party will love you for, don't even bother with anything that rolls damage, because you've already got your best attack spell in hand from level 1... which actually makes you feel incredibly versatile, because you can start to take niche utility or RP spells without feeling like you're nerfing yourself in combat, because you always have EB to fall back on.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I take it you are a fiend warlock. Agonizing blast and book of ancient secrets (pact of tome) are the two invocations I prioritize, repelling blast is my third pick.
I think divine soul will be the better pick, you can prioritize support, control, and utility spells. Guidance is a great support/utility cantrip, thorn whip and vicious mockery (have to get these two with pact of tome) are good support/control cantrips. Bless, cure wounds, and healing word are all great level 1 cleric spells to get.
Well actually I mentioned Draconic bloodline for the eventual bonus to damage, but main reason was free Mage Armor and the +1 Hit Point per level which effectively gives them a d8 Hit Die instead of the d6 hit die as per all sorcerers when using the averaged hit points per level. Is it just me or does this keep going from general discussions to tips and tactics and back and forth?
Everything is a tip! And everything is a discussion! :D
Yeah, the +1 HP is nice, but if we're talking about a (non hexblade) warlock/sorcerer hybrid, I assume we're talking about a backline caster that doesn't necessarily care as much about HP and AC. The free mage armor doesn't seem that valuable on a warlock/sorcerer hybrid either, since Warlocks have access to that with an invocation as well... but the devil is in the details, it's hard to say that one is "better" than the other since they probably lend themselves to very different builds! You actually inspired me to mess around with sketching out a Cleric (Arcane) 8/Sorcerer (Draconic-Red) 6/Warlock (Celestial) 6 build that adds Charisma twice and Wisdom once to each firebolt, which might aaaaaalmost be as good as slinging around Eldritch Blast if you squint at it the right way? :p
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
If your going all that then please do not forget to get Green-Flame Blade as it gets attribute mod in damage to second target. But speaking of attribute mods I do not think you can add the +Cha for Sorcerer and Warlock together, and I believe the Arcane cleric only gets it for Cleric spells which the arcane cantrips you select at 1st level count as, which puts them into a Wisdom mod as they are no longer Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock spells. I may be mistaken but I may have misread it, The reason for the draconic is it frees up the incantation of Armor of Shadows for a more useful Incantation.
The features that add +cha from sorcerer (Elemental Affinity) and warlock (Radiant Soul) have different names, and thus stack. The cleric feature (Potent Spellcasting) is the only one that asks for "a cleric spell", both of the others just ask for spells that deal fire damage, regardless of class.
As for whether a feature like Arcane Initiate implies that by making something a cleric cantrip it also takes it off the class list of every other class it would normally appear on? I'm not aware of any rule language that would imply that, but I'm also not really sure where in the PHB or DMG class spell lists are fully explained as a general concept, so its possible I'm missing something. I guess Arcane Initiate doesn't actually say "add to your spell list," it says "count as cleric cantrips," so there could be some room for distinguishing that against other features that just add spells to spell lists... not sure if that's a question that's been resolved. But for this specific combo, again, its not really at question.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.