I have been attempting to be creative with my Familiar (Find Familiar) and I found a few things:
Familiars are surprisingly strong, don't to the way that Strength x15 for Carrying Capacity is only divided by two for Tiny Creatures.
Any creature can attune to magical items
Logically, a creature that has items physically attached to them (especially attuned magical items) should go with them into a pocket dimension.
It is hard to find objects to trust a Intelligence 2 'creature' to operate safely (looking at you Alchemist's Fire (flask)).
Obviously it is up to the DM to make a call on if the items will go with the Familiar into their pocket dimension. Additionally, the magic item is a home-brew one that I got in my game. As far as I am aware everything about this is RAW, with the exception of Barding where I did the 2x weight, but because a Hawk is a tiny creature and the weight for Studded Leather is for a small/medium creature, I then divided that by 8 (in line with weight reduction from Enlarge/Reduce).
Edit: Hmm in retrospect I did that wrong and the armour should weigh 3.25 lb..
However, how many of you would accept this in your games?
I’d allow it-but not that it goes with it when dismissed. IMO, there’s nothing physical that moves to another dimension-it’s a spirit without a physical body that you’re bringing over. The body is something you create on this side and isn’t really part of the spirit-IMO.
Also, the attunenment would count against your total of 3.
You could have a fanny pack that also fits you familiar as a back pack 😜
Nicely done! With this much thought involved, it would be hard to turn down. One thing that is starkly absent is the intelligence stat for a familiar. Also, your example is more like a pet than a familiar.
I’d allow it-but not that it goes with it when dismissed. IMO, there’s nothing physical that moves to another dimension-it’s a spirit without a physical body that you’re bringing over. The body is something you create on this side and isn’t really part of the spirit-IMO.
Also, the attunenment would count against your total of 3.
You could have a fanny pack that also fits you familiar as a back pack 😜
I've seen people argue that a Familiar's attuned items would count against your own... but I don't see at all how that fits with Rules as Written, Intended or Fun? ...and is there a Fanny pack anywhere in the rules? I didn't really find anything beyond satchels and backpacks (I was going to use satchels... but the caltrops bags fit better with the weight capacity and my DM didn't want me turning her into a low flying bomber
Nicely done! With this much thought involved, it would be hard to turn down. One thing that is starkly absent is the intelligence stat for a familiar. Also, your example is more like a pet than a familiar.
And, yeah I treat my Familiar more like a pet because my character does not know she is a familiar and basically immortal or that she could change forms (and also met her before, though she was a spirit still then).
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
I’d allow it-but not that it goes with it when dismissed. IMO, there’s nothing physical that moves to another dimension-it’s a spirit without a physical body that you’re bringing over. The body is something you create on this side and isn’t really part of the spirit-IMO.
Also, the attunenment would count against your total of 3.
You could have a fanny pack that also fits you familiar as a back pack 😜
I've seen people argue that a Familiar's attuned items would count against your own... but I don't see at all how that fits with Rules as Written, Intended or Fun? ...and is there a Fanny pack anywhere in the rules? I didn't really find anything beyond satchels and backpacks (I was going to use satchels... but the caltrops bags fit better with the weight capacity and my DM didn't want me turning her into a low flying bomber
uh, so you're saying creating a homebrew magic item for a familiar is okay, and creating a tiny backpack for that familiar is also okay...but calling that tiny backpack a fanny pack and strapping it around your waist isn't allowed because it's not RAW because 'fanny pack' isn't in a book?? In other words, its okay to make homebrew magic items but its not okay to make homebrew mundane items. Your world I guess - but could have sworn you started your post with 'I have been attempting to be creative '.
So in that case, I'd say your intelligence 2 familiar can't attune to anything as attunement requires an hour of focused concentration and physical contact with the object. Show me a bird with an intelligence of 2 that focuses on one object and remains in physical contact with it for an hour - except its eggs/young...and no bird would mistake a necklace for its baby.
Logically, a creature that has items physically attached to them (especially attuned magical items) should go with them into a pocket dimension.
Neither of those are true in my games.
Attuning to an item requires a tool-using level of intelligence and will.
Familiars are spirits from another plane which manifest on this plane, creating a body out of nothingness when they do so. When they leave this plane (either to a pocket dimension or back to their home dimension), their body disappears. Any items they are carrying fall to the ground.
Here is the RAW explaining how the process of attunement works:
"Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can't be the same short rest used to learn the item's properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a weapon), meditation (for a wondrous item), or some other appropriate activity. If the short rest is interrupted, the attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words."
There is no way a familiar with wild animal level intelligence would be capable of any of that.
Familiars by RAW cannot attune to magic items. They are spirits, not creatures. They assume the form of an animal. Any other ruling would be totally overpowering, allowing casters to effectively attune to extra magic items than non-casters. Really abusive and unfair to the fighter/rogue types.
That said, I would totally house rule that your Familiar can use one of your attunement slots, allowing it to attune. And if they do that, then logically an attuned item should go into the into the pocket dimension. I would also house rule that upon a character's death, the familiar stops being a familiar and any items in the pocket dimension for that familiar would re-appear by the body.
Familiars by RAW cannot attune to magic items. They are spirits, not creatures. They assume the form of an animal. Any other ruling would be totally overpowering, allowing casters to effectively attune to extra magic items than non-casters. Really abusive and unfair to the fighter/rogue types.
They are creatures. Even if they are spirits, they take the form of creatures and are creatures.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Familiars by RAW cannot attune to magic items. They are spirits, not creatures. They assume the form of an animal. Any other ruling would be totally overpowering, allowing casters to effectively attune to extra magic items than non-casters. Really abusive and unfair to the fighter/rogue types.
They are creatures. Even if they are spirits, they take the form of creatures and are creatures.
i'd agree with this one "though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." celestial fey and fiends are creatures so they are effectively creatures.
also, here's where I got the idea that a familiar's attuned items counts against your total (if its allowed at all):
Attune to a Magic Item by Familiars Any item attuned to a creature under your control (familiars, beast companions, etc.) counts against both your character’s limit of three attuned items and the character’s permanent Magic Item Limit. This doesn’t suggest that such creatures can attune to magic items. Whether or not a mindless undead creature, for example, can attune to and utilize a magic item is still subject to DM discretion.
That is RAW, but Adventure League RAW so take that however you want...its in FAQ v9.1
This also contradicts 2017 Sage Advice (which is certyainly not RAW, AL or otherwise and much older) "The magic item attunement of your companions has no effect on the number of items you can attune to. " This also doesn't answer the minimum requirements for a creature to attune to magic items.
think it boils down to 100% DM discretion. I allow it, I have one player who gave his mount (which he loves dearly) a periapt of wound closure but it counts against his total slots. But like I said if someone wants to go over-the-top with interpretations, I'm fine saying the creature is just too stupid to attune.
I disagree. That is not RAW. That is a strange reading of a strange Sage Advice. The Sage Adice in question did NOT answer the asked question. It's like if you asked "Can a Wizard cast a Cleric spell?" and the Sage said "Of course druids can cast any spell on their list."
This would mean non-defensive magic item should be attuned to your familiar. Consider the following
Amulet of the Planes
Crystal Ball
Eye of Vecna
Yes, the Eye of Freaking Vecna. So your familiar's alignment becomes NE, and (rolls d100 detriment)) has disadvantage against all saving throws.
Bull. Pure abuse and an obvious one. I totally agree with the Sage - a COMPANION's can attune to magic items and not count it against yours. But a Familiar is not a companion.
Yeah, but the fact that they failed to answer the question does not make the premise invalid. RAW, creatures can attune to magic items. RAW, familiars are creatures. Therefore, RAW, familiars can attune to magic items.
Sure, it can get problematic, but there aren't many combinations that are more troublesome than just having another party member attune to that same magic item. What benefit does the group get if the familiar gets the Hand of Vecna or Eye of Vecna than if the party's rogue had done so?
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
uh, so you're saying creating a homebrew magic item for a familiar is okay, and creating a tiny backpack for that familiar is also okay...but calling that tiny backpack a fanny pack and strapping it around your waist isn't allowed because it's not RAW because 'fanny pack' isn't in a book?? In other words, its okay to make homebrew magic items but its not okay to make homebrew mundane items. Your world I guess - but could have sworn you started your post with 'I have been attempting to be creative '.
So in that case, I'd say your intelligence 2 familiar can't attune to anything as attunement requires an hour of focused concentration and physical contact with the object. Show me a bird with an intelligence of 2 that focuses on one object and remains in physical contact with it for an hour - except its eggs/young...and no bird would mistake a necklace for its baby.
I can see why you'd think I was trying to play fast and loose with different rules interpretations here but I'm not, I'm just obeying Rule Zero (DM has final say) - they created a home-brew magic item, that my character has. I'm proposing to give that magic item to my familiar, and I wanted an insight from the wider community on that, ultimately in my game it is up to my DM, but this is in the tips and tactics section of this forum so as to discuss opportunities/ tactics like this.
The backpack is just a normal backpack by the rules, was wondering if in an obscure splat-back there was a fanny-pack that would be a better fit. Flavor wise, yeah it doesn't really matter.
Here is the RAW explaining how the process of attunement works:
"Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can't be the same short rest used to learn the item's properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a weapon), meditation (for a wondrous item), or some other appropriate activity. If the short rest is interrupted, the attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words."
There is no way a familiar with wild animal level intelligence would be capable of any of that.
Yep, this is what I was going off for attunement to my Familiar, as she is still a creatures, though I am confused by you saying that an Int of 2 would now allow you to focus on something for an hour (as working the item shouldn't be an issue, it is an intuitive understanding gained after all). If a PC for some reason had an Int of 2 would that still be the case? Hawks can be trained and that requires focus, and dogs only have an Int of 3: Mastiff.
Familiars by RAW cannot attune to magic items. They are spirits, not creatures. They assume the form of an animal. Any other ruling would be totally overpowering, allowing casters to effectively attune to extra magic items than non-casters. Really abusive and unfair to the fighter/rogue types.
That said, I would totally house rule that your Familiar can use one of your attunement slots, allowing it to attune. And if they do that, then logically an attuned item should go into the into the pocket dimension. I would also house rule that upon a character's death, the familiar stops being a familiar and any items in the pocket dimension for that familiar would re-appear by the body.
Just looking again at Find Familiar. When you gain the service of a celestial, fey, or fiend, it takes the form you choose. Changing this form actually requires nothing less than casting the spell again (-10g and -1hour). I can understand why the flavour of instead of a pocket dimension, the familiar is returned to the fey wild/ heaven/ hell and then returned to your service when you pop it out of the pocket dimension. But as you can't choose a new form at this point it does seem weird to me that this pocket dimension would allow the familiar to break out of the form you chose for it (as Familiar's are basically slaves)... Not that I like the slave dimension.
also, here's where I got the idea that a familiar's attuned items counts against your total (if its allowed at all):
Attune to a Magic Item by Familiars Any item attuned to a creature under your control (familiars, beast companions, etc.) counts against both your character’s limit of three attuned items and the character’s permanent Magic Item Limit. This doesn’t suggest that such creatures can attune to magic items. Whether or not a mindless undead creature, for example, can attune to and utilize a magic item is still subject to DM discretion.
That is RAW, but Adventure League RAW so take that however you want...its in FAQ v9.1
This also contradicts 2017 Sage Advice (which is certyainly not RAW, AL or otherwise and much older) "The magic item attunement of your companions has no effect on the number of items you can attune to. " This also doesn't answer the minimum requirements for a creature to attune to magic items.
think it boils down to 100% DM discretion. I allow it, I have one player who gave his mount (which he loves dearly) a periapt of wound closure but it counts against his total slots. But like I said if someone wants to go over-the-top with interpretations, I'm fine saying the creature is just too stupid to attune.
Ah, I didn't know about that adventure's league rule (I don't play AL), so that is where people get that from... thanks! Companions, mounts, pets and familiars are all very similar concepts, I'd have though a rule like magic items ought affect them all equally
I disagree. That is not RAW. That is a strange reading of a strange Sage Advice. The Sage Adice in question did NOT answer the asked question. It's like if you asked "Can a Wizard cast a Cleric spell?" and the Sage said "Of course druids can cast any spell on their list."
This would mean non-defensive magic item should be attuned to your familiar. Consider the following
Amulet of the Planes
Crystal Ball
Eye of Vecna
Yes, the Eye of Freaking Vecna. So your familiar's alignment becomes NE, and (rolls d100 detriment)) has disadvantage against all saving throws.
Bull. Pure abuse and an obvious one. I totally agree with the Sage - a COMPANION's can attune to magic items and not count it against yours. But a Familiar is not a companion.
Isn't Sage Advice supposed to give rulings that then serve as a guide for similar matters, Eye of Vecna is a powerful magic item regardless of it is implanted into a NPC, PC, bear companion of octopus familiar... also i'd be cautious about the wisdom of cruelly implanting a malevolent artifact into a weak-minded creature... But like Levi says below, does it really make a difference who has it?
Yeah, but the fact that they failed to answer the question does not make the premise invalid. RAW, creatures can attune to magic items. RAW, familiars are creatures. Therefore, RAW, familiars can attune to magic items.
Sure, it can get problematic, but there aren't many combinations that are more troublesome than just having another party member attune to that same magic item. What benefit does the group get if the familiar gets the Hand of Vecna or Eye of Vecna than if the party's rogue had done so?
That was a lot of quotes, but I figured it was the best way to respond to things in this great discussion (thanks everyone). Another thing I would add is that item all being abandoned on the floor would be weird with the Pact of the Chain Familiar, the Sprite. Their Leather, Shortbow and Longsword would clatter to the ground only for them to return with a new set? Or would they have to go fetch them from where they landed? Also, here is my updated sheet:
I have been attempting to be creative with my Familiar (Find Familiar) and I found a few things:
Obviously it is up to the DM to make a call on if the items will go with the Familiar into their pocket dimension. Additionally, the magic item is a home-brew one that I got in my game. As far as I am aware everything about this is RAW, with the exception of Barding where I did the 2x weight, but because a Hawk is a tiny creature and the weight for Studded Leather is for a small/medium creature, I then divided that by 8 (in line with weight reduction from Enlarge/Reduce).
Edit: Hmm in retrospect I did that wrong and the armour should weigh 3.25 lb..
However, how many of you would accept this in your games?
I’d allow it-but not that it goes with it when dismissed. IMO, there’s nothing physical that moves to another dimension-it’s a spirit without a physical body that you’re bringing over. The body is something you create on this side and isn’t really part of the spirit-IMO.
Also, the attunenment would count against your total of 3.
You could have a fanny pack that also fits you familiar as a back pack 😜
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Nicely done! With this much thought involved, it would be hard to turn down. One thing that is starkly absent is the intelligence stat for a familiar. Also, your example is more like a pet than a familiar.
I've seen people argue that a Familiar's attuned items would count against your own... but I don't see at all how that fits with Rules as Written, Intended or Fun? ...and is there a Fanny pack anywhere in the rules? I didn't really find anything beyond satchels and backpacks (I was going to use satchels... but the caltrops bags fit better with the weight capacity and my DM didn't want me turning her into a low flying bomber
And, yeah I treat my Familiar more like a pet because my character does not know she is a familiar and basically immortal or that she could change forms (and also met her before, though she was a spirit still then).
uh, so you're saying creating a homebrew magic item for a familiar is okay, and creating a tiny backpack for that familiar is also okay...but calling that tiny backpack a fanny pack and strapping it around your waist isn't allowed because it's not RAW because 'fanny pack' isn't in a book?? In other words, its okay to make homebrew magic items but its not okay to make homebrew mundane items. Your world I guess - but could have sworn you started your post with 'I have been attempting to be creative '.
So in that case, I'd say your intelligence 2 familiar can't attune to anything as attunement requires an hour of focused concentration and physical contact with the object. Show me a bird with an intelligence of 2 that focuses on one object and remains in physical contact with it for an hour - except its eggs/young...and no bird would mistake a necklace for its baby.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Only if your familiar has poofy hair and leg warmers.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Neither of those are true in my games.
Attuning to an item requires a tool-using level of intelligence and will.
Familiars are spirits from another plane which manifest on this plane, creating a body out of nothingness when they do so. When they leave this plane (either to a pocket dimension or back to their home dimension), their body disappears. Any items they are carrying fall to the ground.
Here is the RAW explaining how the process of attunement works:
"Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it (this can't be the same short rest used to learn the item's properties). This focus can take the form of weapon practice (for a weapon), meditation (for a wondrous item), or some other appropriate activity. If the short rest is interrupted, the attunement attempt fails. Otherwise, at the end of the short rest, the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words."
There is no way a familiar with wild animal level intelligence would be capable of any of that.
Familiars by RAW cannot attune to magic items. They are spirits, not creatures. They assume the form of an animal. Any other ruling would be totally overpowering, allowing casters to effectively attune to extra magic items than non-casters. Really abusive and unfair to the fighter/rogue types.
That said, I would totally house rule that your Familiar can use one of your attunement slots, allowing it to attune. And if they do that, then logically an attuned item should go into the into the pocket dimension. I would also house rule that upon a character's death, the familiar stops being a familiar and any items in the pocket dimension for that familiar would re-appear by the body.
They are creatures. Even if they are spirits, they take the form of creatures and are creatures.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
i'd agree with this one "though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." celestial fey and fiends are creatures so they are effectively creatures.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
also, here's where I got the idea that a familiar's attuned items counts against your total (if its allowed at all):
Attune to a Magic Item by Familiars
Any item attuned to a creature under your control (familiars, beast companions, etc.) counts against both your character’s limit of three attuned items and the character’s permanent Magic Item Limit. This doesn’t suggest that such creatures can attune to magic items. Whether or not a mindless undead creature, for example, can attune to and utilize a magic item is still subject to DM discretion.
That is RAW, but Adventure League RAW so take that however you want...its in FAQ v9.1
This also contradicts 2017 Sage Advice (which is certyainly not RAW, AL or otherwise and much older) "The magic item attunement of your companions has no effect on the number of items you can attune to. " This also doesn't answer the minimum requirements for a creature to attune to magic items.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/02/11/do-magic-items-attuned-to-a-familiar-count-against-the-arcanists-total/ (not that I really know what an arcanist is)
think it boils down to 100% DM discretion. I allow it, I have one player who gave his mount (which he loves dearly) a periapt of wound closure but it counts against his total slots. But like I said if someone wants to go over-the-top with interpretations, I'm fine saying the creature is just too stupid to attune.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
The Sage advice is weird. It talks about companions, not familiars. I would not consider a familiar to be a companion.
i agree, he didn't answer the question when you look at the words but threw it up here anyway.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Yes, but RAW, familiars are both creatures, and can attune to magic items.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I disagree. That is not RAW. That is a strange reading of a strange Sage Advice. The Sage Adice in question did NOT answer the asked question. It's like if you asked "Can a Wizard cast a Cleric spell?" and the Sage said "Of course druids can cast any spell on their list."
This would mean non-defensive magic item should be attuned to your familiar. Consider the following
Yes, the Eye of Freaking Vecna. So your familiar's alignment becomes NE, and (rolls d100 detriment)) has disadvantage against all saving throws.
Bull. Pure abuse and an obvious one. I totally agree with the Sage - a COMPANION's can attune to magic items and not count it against yours. But a Familiar is not a companion.
Yeah, but the fact that they failed to answer the question does not make the premise invalid. RAW, creatures can attune to magic items. RAW, familiars are creatures. Therefore, RAW, familiars can attune to magic items.
Sure, it can get problematic, but there aren't many combinations that are more troublesome than just having another party member attune to that same magic item. What benefit does the group get if the familiar gets the Hand of Vecna or Eye of Vecna than if the party's rogue had done so?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I can see why you'd think I was trying to play fast and loose with different rules interpretations here but I'm not, I'm just obeying Rule Zero (DM has final say) - they created a home-brew magic item, that my character has. I'm proposing to give that magic item to my familiar, and I wanted an insight from the wider community on that, ultimately in my game it is up to my DM, but this is in the tips and tactics section of this forum so as to discuss opportunities/ tactics like this.
The backpack is just a normal backpack by the rules, was wondering if in an obscure splat-back there was a fanny-pack that would be a better fit. Flavor wise, yeah it doesn't really matter.
Yep, this is what I was going off for attunement to my Familiar, as she is still a creatures, though I am confused by you saying that an Int of 2 would now allow you to focus on something for an hour (as working the item shouldn't be an issue, it is an intuitive understanding gained after all). If a PC for some reason had an Int of 2 would that still be the case? Hawks can be trained and that requires focus, and dogs only have an Int of 3: Mastiff.
Just looking again at Find Familiar. When you gain the service of a celestial, fey, or fiend, it takes the form you choose. Changing this form actually requires nothing less than casting the spell again (-10g and -1hour). I can understand why the flavour of instead of a pocket dimension, the familiar is returned to the fey wild/ heaven/ hell and then returned to your service when you pop it out of the pocket dimension. But as you can't choose a new form at this point it does seem weird to me that this pocket dimension would allow the familiar to break out of the form you chose for it (as Familiar's are basically slaves)... Not that I like the slave dimension.
Ah, I didn't know about that adventure's league rule (I don't play AL), so that is where people get that from... thanks! Companions, mounts, pets and familiars are all very similar concepts, I'd have though a rule like magic items ought affect them all equally
This
Isn't Sage Advice supposed to give rulings that then serve as a guide for similar matters, Eye of Vecna is a powerful magic item regardless of it is implanted into a NPC, PC, bear companion of octopus familiar... also i'd be cautious about the wisdom of cruelly implanting a malevolent artifact into a weak-minded creature... But like Levi says below, does it really make a difference who has it?
That was a lot of quotes, but I figured it was the best way to respond to things in this great discussion (thanks everyone). Another thing I would add is that item all being abandoned on the floor would be weird with the Pact of the Chain Familiar, the Sprite. Their Leather, Shortbow and Longsword would clatter to the ground only for them to return with a new set? Or would they have to go fetch them from where they landed? Also, here is my updated sheet:
Is there any difference between a fanny pack and the belt pouch in the players handbook.
Fanny packs are 100% more 80s.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.