Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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1. How do you get 20d6 sneak attack dice? A19th level Rogue does 10d6.
2. There are no relevant AC10 enemies you are going to be facing at 20th level. You need to calculate this with AC22 or so.
3. If you disengage and move away from the enemy you will not be standing next to him to make a reaction attack, so the booming blade damage won't hardly ever trigger. Even if you did disengage it is not a sure thing.
4. You mention sentinel but to use this you need to be a Rogue standing in melee range with a CR25 or so enemy. The only other ally the BBEG is going to attack is potentially your familiar (and there is a non-zero chance your familiar is going to die just from being that close to the kind of enemies you will be facing). Other than that he will never attack anyone else.
5. You are going to run out of 2nd level spells quickly since there is almost no chance you are going to hang on to concentration for shadowblade more than one round.
6. You can not use shadowblade with booming blade since the rules change with Tasha's came out. With your Warlock level you can go with Hex though which is going to do just about as much damage.
Erm, are you disengaging for Booming Blade or going for the Opportunity attacks? you'd need to be in 5 foot for that, you can't have both every round (can't have your cake AND eat it). I think that is also where you drew 20d6 from, because you're assuming 2 separate sneak attacks. Let us consider the following fighter,
High Elf (taking any cantrip), using Tasha's and standard array, STR 15+2, DEX 13, CON 14+1, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 8
you pick up the following ASIs, +1 STR +1CON, +2 STR, PAM, Sentinel, Magic Initiate (Hex + 2 cantrips), GWM, Elven Accuracy (+1 DEX).
Fighting styles are Great Weapon Fighting and Protection
You take the Champion Fighter archetype
you equip a halbard, 1st attack you shove the creature prone, it is now advantage, so you get elven accuracy for a 38.59% chance to critical on your next 4 attacks.
Assuming an AC of 19 (this is more normal for a CR of 20), +11 to hit.
Chance to hit without GWM: 95.71%, Chance to hit with GWM: 78.4%
Damage with GWM: (((2d8+4)*.8+2d10*.2)+15+2d6) * 38.59% * 3 + (((2d2+4)*.8+2d4*.2)+15+2d6) * 38.59% + (((1d8+2)*.8+1d10*.2)+15+1d6) * 39.81% * 3 + ((1d2+2)*.8+1d4*.2)+15+1d6) * 39.81% = ~89.39
Damage without GWM: (((2d8+4)*.8+2d10*.2)+5+2d6) * 38.59% * 3 + (((2d2+4)*.8+2d4*.2)+5+2d6) * 38.59% + (((1d8+2)*.8+1d10*.2)+5+1d6) * 57.12% * 3 + ((1d2+2)*.8+1d4*.2)+5+1d6) * 57.12% = ~67.76
On top of this you could potentially get that extra PAM reaction, which thanks to sentinel also reduces the creature to 0 speed.
Assuming no advantage with GWM: ((2d8+4)*.8+2d10*.2)+15+2d6)*.15 + ((1d8+2)*.8+1d10*.2)+15+1d6)* .25 = ~11.39
without: ((2d8+4)*.8+2d10*.2)+5+2d6)*.15 + ((1d8+2)*.8+1d10*.2)+5+1d6)* .5 = ~11.09
now let's drop in an action surge...
~89.39 + ~11.39 + ~112.62 (has all attacks since target still prone) = ~213.4 And this is properly adjusted for AC, unlike the 10 you chose, which even at CR 1 would be LOW, let alone CR20.
There are many weaknesses in that thief build and some bad assumptions, shadow blade is concentration so if the creature straight charges you, you've probably lost that shadow blade if it attacks you directly and you only have 4 casts of shadow blade for the whole day, compared to fighter's twice per short rest action surge at level 20. And if somebody else in the party did something to give you advantage you could be pushing ~248.47 damage. The shove example, if you fail the shove (you have +11 to athletics tho with proficiency), you wait til next round and try to shove again. Admittedly the hex is also only once per day in this build, and also concentration tho with this build you're more likely to be holding off some creatures from ever being able to attack you due to PAM+Sentinel BS.
I'd say this Champion Fighter build beats it, and this isn't even the most optimized way to go about it, and let's not even get into magic weapons, cas a +3 Halberd would add significant amounts of damage to this. Shadow Blade meanwhile will always be a +0 to attack rolls.
COunterpoint to all of the above: not one single soul cares about the Optimancer White Room Math for level 20 builds against AC10 enemies. That will never happen in a real game. It's not even worth discussing. Stahppit.
Please do not contact or message me.
"Flying creatures enjoy many benefits of mobility, but they must also deal with the danger of falling. If a flying creature is knocked prone, has its speed reduced to 0, or is otherwise deprived of the ability to move, the creature falls, unless it has the ability to hover or it is being held aloft by magic, such as by the fly spell".
In fact, a grappled creature in 5e has its speed reduced to 0, and thus grappling a flying creature causes it to fall. This line about prone and 0 speed has been removed in 1DnD playtest. On one hand, you can no longer cause a large gryphon to fall from the sky by latching onto it, but at the same time, a tiny sprite that you grab by the foot is still technically flying.
The entangle spell " ...... sprout from the ground in a 20-foot square starting from a point within range."
They can not be affected by entangle unless they are flying very low (less than 20-foot).
A PAM Fighter build is going to get a reaction attack far more than a Rogue using TWF, especially if you take battlemaster.
Also keep in mind a Rogue needs to burn an ASI and take a feat for booming blade, unless he is an elf or Arcane Trickster.
I do need to note that attacking at 10 feet with a halberd against a prone enemy will be at disadvantage. Also your chance to shove an enemy prone at level 20 is not great unless you have expertise or advantage on the shove and many enemies will be immune.
I think this build/strategy would be better with Tavern Brawler, unarmed fighting style a maul and Rune Knight (allowing a bonus action shove with advantage after a 1d8 attack at advantage and being able to do it against huge creatures).
Why are you attacking an enemy at 10 foot when they are prone? you don't NEED to be at 10 foot to attack, you can still attack at 5 foot, the only time you need to be at 10 foot is for the Reactionary Opportunity Attack, since that is when they enter range, else wise all reach weapons can target any creature within reach.
I knew shove was a weakness in this, I only used it as an example of how to get advantage but there are actually better ways and more worth working with party around how to achieve it, since shoving might mess up your ranged allies, for example. So a caster with Faerie Fire or Greater Invisibility would be a better choice, however optimized builds usually ignore the whole "party" aspect despite builds working with party almost always being superior.
You do realize they changed the wording on sneak attack which requires the "attack action." Booming blade is a spell action amd wouldn't apply sneak as worded 😬
Yes, we know, but most Rogues didn’t use them off-turn Sneak Attacks anyways, so it’s not that big of a nerf. Also, some people exploited Sneak Attack to get more uses out of it, and they with that exploit unavailable, WotC can buff Rogues without buffing those already powerful min-maxed multi-round Sneak Attackers too. Overall, I think this change is a good one.
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HERE.No one enjoys being useless. The only thing that rogues excel at in this UA is expertise with thieves tools, which artificers may still get. Other than being worse off than before, where is the draw to being a rogue? You can't even be smart and hold an action because those normally activate off turn. I have never seen a legit rogue outside of homebrew break an encounter.
Overall martials lost most of that which allowed them to compete with casters in the expert UA. We still need to see the other classes to see how they compare overall but SS and GWM are just bad now and just swinging a weapon for little damage is a far cry to what a caster can do in all pillars of play.
On a side note, did they adjust player crits from just weapon damage or is that still a thing? If it was changed where should I be looking for that?
Defaulted back to the old 5e rules
I think you misread his post. This has nothing to do with off-turn or multi-round sneak attacks. He is talking about using a cantrip with sneak attack and this is a huge nerf.
I agree of-turn sneak attacks are somewhat rare and exploitive, but almost every melee Rogue I have seen played uses booming blade or green flame blade for sneak attack. They pick that up through Arcane Trickster, multiclass, Magic Initiate or Elf.
This will make swashbucklers just about useless as a subclass and will seriously nerf scouts beyond their current alreadyweak state. Ironically, the Arcane Trickster is the most powerful Rogue currently and will suffer from this as well but do to spells you will be able to play around it effectively and it will actually increase the gap between AT and others as they will be nerfed more.
I think it will also just about elminate melee Rogues as a viable option, the extra damage you get with booming blade was the tradeoff for not having advantage from steady aim or having to disengage.
Oh, my bad then. But just because Rogues can't do one thing they couldn't do before, it doesn't mean they are "useless" and that they don't "excel" at anything. The overall changes to Rogue are actually pretty minimal, and overall, I think they're cool; Pack Tactics and earlier subclass features are both great. And some Rogues can break combats too, and they can also do a lot of things outside of combat that 5e's fighter and barbarian cant. However, I'm actually also against not having Sneak Attack on spells, though I like the overall changes to Sneak Attack and it's not as big a deal to me as it might be for some other people.
PS- Yes, they temporarily made the change of reverting crit rules back to their former state for this UA, though that may (hopefully not) soon change. It says so in the video and I think it may also say so somewhere in the PDF.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I agree on Rogues and I don't get the nerfs there.
I think martials gained quite a bit in this though with GWM and PAM being half feats, although they were not the equal of casters before and still aren't
GWM is WAY better than it was before. Most martials in tier 1/2 will do quite a bit more damage most of the time with the new feat compared to the old feat. GWM was overated before, it has never been as great a feat as people thought, but mathematically it is better now than it was and the new feat is one of the best in the game.
I know people see the loss in the +10 damage being replaced with +2/3/4 once a turn, and they think it is a huge loss, but they are not doing the math and factoring in the ASI which makes it a +6 to hit comparitively to the old feat while still getting a damage boost. When you combine the ASI and bonus damage you are going to outrun the old feat most of the time, it is going to beat the old feat by a wide margin against enemies with a high AC because you still get the bonus damage without taking a hit penalty.
Sharpshooter is awash I think. The best part of sharpshooter is eliminating cover and long range and you keep that. You give up the -5/+10 to get a half ASI. Some builds that will be better, some it will be worse. On a Rogue it is a lot better now than it was before, so that is one bone I guess.
I did some math for the new GWM vs the old GWM using a greatsword or maul. These are all DPR rounded to the nearest whole number. Does not include bonus action attacks:
Level 4 Fighter:
Level 6 Fighter:
Raging Barbarian Using Reckless Attack 4th Level:
Raging Barbarian Using Reckless Attack 8th Level:
Hey folks,
I have a concept thought. Does every class have to have abilities that are also spells? Does everything have to be magical? Can those things that are spells just be class abilities with a certain number of uses per short or long rest? I have been DMing 5E for a few years now, but before that I was heavily invested in 2E. The classes had special abilities that may have been linked to a spell description, but didn't require spell mechanics. Why not utilize the class ability more. Rangers didn't use to be able to cast spells until 8th or 9th level.
Part of the reason I ask this is how difficult it could become to create a low or medium magic setting. Magic is a part of the D&D history and its future. But I am not sure EVERYTHING needs spell casting ability that early.
It also can cause confusion when creating a spell list. Which spell is a class ability? Which spell is part of a background? Which do I not have to use a spell slot for? Which one is always prepared?
The spell description can still be referenced in the ability, but does it doesn't have to be a spell casting ability.
Just my thoughts
Personally I like spells and I would like to see more spells or spell options for most classes.
I have been experimenting with the play test materials. It feels like feature creep. I was hoping that this would be an opportunity to simplify the game not make it easier to create power characters.
Feats should be simple with only one or two things. No feat should affect ability scores. Characters should only have access to about 1-3 feats total. They should be used to give some flavor and specialization to a class, not power it up so that 5th level characters are not challenged by 5th level adventures.
Ability score increases should be only in the class area. No feat or race should affect the basic ability scores. You should not have to sacrifice an ability score boost for a feat, they should be separate.
Reliable Talent should be changed somehow. A difficulty score of 25 should be a daunting thing to roll. I have had Rogues in my games that automatically have base scores of 27. I had to invent a new difficulty of 40 just to make the game a little challenging for them.
Backgrounds should give less game mechanic bonus and more role playing bonuses. Instead of giving out spells and bonus feats, backgrounds should give players access to guilds, universities, churches, noble courts, tribes that can help the character in an adventure.
One of the things I did like was that finally Rangers have both Goodberry and Create/Destroy Water spells available to them through the Primal spell list. A Ranger should not have to worry about rations and water while on the hunt for enemies of a near by village.
The way it is, you don't have to choose between a feat and ASI - you get a feat while still progressing your main stat a notch. It's good.
A player chooses to excel at one thing and the DM auto-scales the world to challenge him exclusively. That's TES: Oblivion on a tabletop.
So, lock down these social paths for everyone without the right background? And if they're not completely locked and can still be accesses by talking to people, what's the point? Trivializing parts of the game from the very beginning ("I skip the quest because I'm a noble", or "we automatically ignore survival scenarios because there's a ranger in group") is not fun.
It's the way every game everywhere works. DMs are predisposed to make games interesting, and automatic success is not interesting. It's also a side effect of 5e apparently not having a real numbers person to make sure that the design intent is actually followed.