So now that Spiritual Weapon requires concentration how badly do you think this will effect the results of the survey?
I think we'll see something get less than 50% support for this UA.
I largely think many of the changes have been good or at least understandable. That change takes SW completely off our table.
I mean, the damage scaling is better. 2d8 with a 3rd-level slot, 3d8 at with a 4th, and 4d8 with a 5th. The concentration is rough, but it might be a worthy trade-off.
So now that Spiritual Weapon requires concentration how badly do you think this will effect the results of the survey?
I think we'll see something get less than 50% support for this UA.
I largely think many of the changes have been good or at least understandable. That change takes SW completely off our table.
I mean, the damage scaling is better. 2d8 with a 3rd-level slot, 3d8 at with a 4th, and 4d8 with a 5th. The concentration is rough, but it might be a worthy trade-off.
In a game with bounded accuracy, hitting 3 players at level 1 with Bless, or 4 at level 2 and giving bonuses on every attack and saving throw is likely to do far more good for you in a game than having your cleric swinging at something once a round. I've seen too many rounds where every one of our strikers turned a miss into a hit due to Bless.
Our Light cleric already has a really hard time justifying using his Flaming Sphere. Maybe a really high level cast can have some use, but I would hope there are better things to do with a 5th level slot.
When it doesn't interfere with the buffs, it's a great little add and gives your cleric something interesting to do during their round. But it's never a cornerstone of tactics. If it is, then your party probably has a rough fight ahead.
i dont like the change to spiritual weapon. most of the time the weapon is doing the damage you would be doing with a weapon while you are using your concentration on bless at low levels and spirit guardians/auras/banish at higher levels. the banishment change i want to be against, but i like it since players can get hit with it too... but will DMs want to banish their PCs? so im going to lean against it for now.
i like almost everything else. It will be interesting if all the subclasses come online at 3rd level, since lvl 1 subclasses make dipping very powerful, but dipping is already a pretty big drawback at higher levels.
i still wish the inspiration rule would be when you miss and attack by 1, or when you fail a save by one.
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
i see there is almost no discussion on the Unarmed Strike changes? I think it finally improves the monk class as a whole, but makes the Open Hand subclass practically obsolete
i see there is almost no discussion on the Unarmed Strike changes? I think it finally improves the monk class as a whole, but makes the Open Hand subclass practically obsolete
There is little discussion because it hasn't changed since the first playtest document.
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
I think these guys look cool
You are as absolutely entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
Huh. Unless I am missing something, I don't think the current Ardling looks like a regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head. The playtest material states "some of the animals evolved into bipedal forms" and "Depending on the animal, the Ardling might also have fur, feathers, or scales." In the "Climber" section, it states that you have a "serpentine tail." In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti.
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
I think these guys look cool
You are as absolutely entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
I don't disagree with that.
I will say that I would prefer these as possible depictions of Aasimar (not ALL Aasimar but some).
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
Huh. Unless I am missing something, I don't think the current Ardling looks like a regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head. The playtest material states "some of the animals evolved into bipedal forms" and "Depending on the animal, the Ardling might also have fur, feathers, or scales." In the "Climber" section, it states that you have a "serpentine tail." In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti.
Thank you for giving evidence to my point that Ardlings are cartoonish.
It's like they specifically responded to my feedback on the Ardling where I said animal head plus a spell does not a subrace make. I like how now you actually get abilities that make the ardling subspecies distinct, and you still have access to spells to not lose the upper plane flavor. The new lore is better too, now that they're no longer just aasimar but animal heads.
The biggest kick I got out of the whole document was for the Racer subspecies when the examples it gave were "Deer, Dog, Horse, or Triceratops" and I immediately went "one of these things is NOT like the other"
Animal heads are still stupid.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
I think these guys look cool
You are as absolutely entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
I don't disagree with that.
I will say that I would prefer these as possible depictions of Aasimar (not ALL Aasimar but some).
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
Huh. Unless I am missing something, I don't think the current Ardling looks like a regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head. The playtest material states "some of the animals evolved into bipedal forms" and "Depending on the animal, the Ardling might also have fur, feathers, or scales." In the "Climber" section, it states that you have a "serpentine tail." In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti.
Thank you for giving evidence to my point that Ardlings are cartoonish.
I said, "In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti." As in bipedal forms of animals similar to how werewolves and yuan-ti are portrayed. Come to think of it, dragonborn falls into the same category. I don't think there is anything cartoonish about werewolves, yuan-ti, dragonborn, or lizardfolks so I don't really see why Ardlings are cartoonish.
Why do you think animal heads are stupid? I don't think werewolves or Yuan-ti are stupid.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog race species would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.
When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
Huh. Unless I am missing something, I don't think the current Ardling looks like a regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head. The playtest material states "some of the animals evolved into bipedal forms" and "Depending on the animal, the Ardling might also have fur, feathers, or scales." In the "Climber" section, it states that you have a "serpentine tail." In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti.
Thank you for giving evidence to my point that Ardlings are cartoonish.
I said, "In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti." As in bipedal forms of animals similar to how werewolves and yuan-ti are portrayed. Come to think of it, dragonborn falls into the same category. I don't think there is anything cartoonish about werewolves, yuan-ti, dragonborn, or lizardfolks so I don't really see why Ardlings are cartoonish.
Because they have a normal human body and a animal head.
I can barely scroll though this thread on my phone now. It would be cool if we could get back to the topic. Trust the process.
WotC presented us with the Origins UA. We provided our feedback. They read it and made changes.
Dragonborn tested low. They read our responses and learned it was the breath weapon we didn't like. They fixed it to be what we wanted. And gave use wings on top of it.
Aardlings tested low. They read our responses and learned that most people felt they had an identity crisis. Most people wanted them to lean into the beast part more. So they did just that. Everyone will get to share what they think of the new one. They will then continue to try to please the most people.
That's how this whole thing works. No one has to worry about what other people are putting in the survey. Just give your own feelings and they'll take it from there.
Yeah in 10- saves the demon or whatever is going to roll moderately high once so that is basically flavor text.
There is a caster martial disparity so some nerfs are probably needed, not sure if this is a good one though.
Disagree, this is a great nerf. Banishment almost broke one of my campaigns because the cleric decided to banish one of the key-NPCs we were supposed to befriend and get crucial info from and since it was an elemental it was just gone permanently from the campaign. A similar thing almost happened to my PC in a campaign set on a different plane - banished back to the Material Plane by an enemy caster that could have tried to run to lock me permanently out of the campaign. The "if it last for the whole minute" thing is so that Banishment can still be used as a utility spell to send a creature that wants to return to its home plane back to its home plane because of the "a creature can choose to fail the saves".
I had a campaign thrown off the rails by a player with a dagger, that doesn't break daggers. If he had cast hold monster then beat it to death would that have made your campaign work out better.
The whole return a willing creature to its home plane thing happens what once ever 5 campaigns. Whoopedy do. But breaking a save fast happens a lot. This isn't a first level spell it is a fairly big investment for a single target if they save nothing happens and if they fail the save they will only lose a round or two of actions. A nerf that makes almost every other option a better option is not a good nerf. If all spells have similar nerfs it will still be a crap 4th level spell in comparison, maybe the spell nerfs will be even more extreme than this so it looks okay.
We just don't have enough information yet to judge it. We don't know how other spells will be nerfed, if at all we don't know how martials will be buffed if at all. But its probably not a good use of your action to cast this spell or prep this spell in most cases.
There's been a lot of talk for years that spellcasters are too strong and need to be 'nerfed.' Banishment might be an example of what that might look like. They could be looking at toning down any spell that just ends encounters. I'm not saying this particular change is good or bad. But it might be one of the ways they are trying to address some common complaints. It's worth looking out for.
I mean, the damage scaling is better. 2d8 with a 3rd-level slot, 3d8 at with a 4th, and 4d8 with a 5th. The concentration is rough, but it might be a worthy trade-off.
In a game with bounded accuracy, hitting 3 players at level 1 with Bless, or 4 at level 2 and giving bonuses on every attack and saving throw is likely to do far more good for you in a game than having your cleric swinging at something once a round. I've seen too many rounds where every one of our strikers turned a miss into a hit due to Bless.
Our Light cleric already has a really hard time justifying using his Flaming Sphere. Maybe a really high level cast can have some use, but I would hope there are better things to do with a 5th level slot.
When it doesn't interfere with the buffs, it's a great little add and gives your cleric something interesting to do during their round. But it's never a cornerstone of tactics. If it is, then your party probably has a rough fight ahead.
i dont like the change to spiritual weapon. most of the time the weapon is doing the damage you would be doing with a weapon while you are using your concentration on bless at low levels and spirit guardians/auras/banish at higher levels. the banishment change i want to be against, but i like it since players can get hit with it too... but will DMs want to banish their PCs? so im going to lean against it for now.
i like almost everything else. It will be interesting if all the subclasses come online at 3rd level, since lvl 1 subclasses make dipping very powerful, but dipping is already a pretty big drawback at higher levels.
i still wish the inspiration rule would be when you miss and attack by 1, or when you fail a save by one.
An otherwise human looking person with an animal head seems ridiculous to me. It’s a matter of taste, I don’t need any more justification than that. An anthropomorphic dog
racespecies would be fine in my opinion, but a human looking person with a dog head just seems silly to me.When a werewolf changes, their whole body is somewhat lupine, a yuan-tI is somewhat serpentine all over. I can buy into those. But an otherwise regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head like someone swapped some interchangeable Lego parts is just too cartoonish for me. It breaks verisimilitude for me.
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i see there is almost no discussion on the Unarmed Strike changes? I think it finally improves the monk class as a whole, but makes the Open Hand subclass practically obsolete
There is little discussion because it hasn't changed since the first playtest document.
I think these guys look cool
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You are as absolutely entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
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Huh. Unless I am missing something, I don't think the current Ardling looks like a regular looking dude (gender neutral term) with an animal head. The playtest material states "some of the animals evolved into bipedal forms" and "Depending on the animal, the Ardling might also have fur, feathers, or scales." In the "Climber" section, it states that you have a "serpentine tail." In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti.
I don't disagree with that.
I will say that I would prefer these as possible depictions of Aasimar (not ALL Aasimar but some).
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Thank you for giving evidence to my point that Ardlings are cartoonish.
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Thank you. Apparently others do. 🤷♂️
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I said, "In my mind, the Ardlings look like characters in zootopia similar to werewolves and yuan-ti." As in bipedal forms of animals similar to how werewolves and yuan-ti are portrayed. Come to think of it, dragonborn falls into the same category. I don't think there is anything cartoonish about werewolves, yuan-ti, dragonborn, or lizardfolks so I don't really see why Ardlings are cartoonish.
Because they have a normal human body and a animal head.
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn
I had the best idea ever. Let’s all chill out and respect each other opinion even if we don’t agree with it.
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn
I can barely scroll though this thread on my phone now. It would be cool if we could get back to the topic. Trust the process.
WotC presented us with the Origins UA. We provided our feedback. They read it and made changes.
Dragonborn tested low. They read our responses and learned it was the breath weapon we didn't like. They fixed it to be what we wanted. And gave use wings on top of it.
Aardlings tested low. They read our responses and learned that most people felt they had an identity crisis. Most people wanted them to lean into the beast part more. So they did just that. Everyone will get to share what they think of the new one. They will then continue to try to please the most people.
That's how this whole thing works. No one has to worry about what other people are putting in the survey. Just give your own feelings and they'll take it from there.
I had a campaign thrown off the rails by a player with a dagger, that doesn't break daggers. If he had cast hold monster then beat it to death would that have made your campaign work out better.
The whole return a willing creature to its home plane thing happens what once ever 5 campaigns. Whoopedy do. But breaking a save fast happens a lot. This isn't a first level spell it is a fairly big investment for a single target if they save nothing happens and if they fail the save they will only lose a round or two of actions. A nerf that makes almost every other option a better option is not a good nerf. If all spells have similar nerfs it will still be a crap 4th level spell in comparison, maybe the spell nerfs will be even more extreme than this so it looks okay.
We just don't have enough information yet to judge it. We don't know how other spells will be nerfed, if at all we don't know how martials will be buffed if at all. But its probably not a good use of your action to cast this spell or prep this spell in most cases.
There's been a lot of talk for years that spellcasters are too strong and need to be 'nerfed.' Banishment might be an example of what that might look like. They could be looking at toning down any spell that just ends encounters. I'm not saying this particular change is good or bad. But it might be one of the ways they are trying to address some common complaints. It's worth looking out for.
Personally I don’t really like artificers because my friend tried to make a motorbike in a medieval campaign and that ruined it for me.
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn