Agreed, spending hit dice to get spell slots back feels like a very Warlock thing to be able to do. I'd rather see it as an out of combat feature though. For instance instead of the Magic Cunning Ritual the Warlock would get the option to ennact a ritual that could recover spell slots equal to hit dice expended and these HD would remain expended until after the short rest. This way the Warlock still sacrifices HP for power, but the cost is against the future rather than right now.
Rethinking the Warlock, I think what I'd most like to see is a sort of 2/3 caster that gets Spell Points rather than spell slots, and gets them at a rate somewhere between full and half. Rather than focus on specific spell levels the Warlock gets a max level spell identical to a full caster through 5th level spells, but spells/rest closer to a half caster. This allows both half-caster and pact magic fans of the Warlock to get what they want without giving the warlock full caster status.
Lvl - Spl Points - Full Caster lvls for Comparison
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
Even when a Warlock does get two short rests per day, this is still not a fix.
1) From levels 1-10, i.e. the vast majority of campaigns and printed modules and even Baldurs effing Gate, their bandaid slot recovery mechanic gives you a whopping one slot per Long Rest in a pinch. Cue the very SR-begging and slot-hoarding they tried and failed to solve. And you're still going to be ignoring useful low-level spells like Shield, Misty Step (non-Archfey), Absorb Elements, Silvery Barbs etc.
2) Most Invocations don't compete for your slots now, but they're still 90% utility/exploration - so you'll still cast your two combat slots and then resort to boring cantrip spam (EB archery) in a fight. And you'll also be backloading those utility choices behind your mandatory Pact Boons, Agonizing/Repelling Blast that will keep you alive etc. Cue Every Warlock in Tier 1 and Tier 2 looking damn near identical aside from being split into the Blade and Tome camps.
3) Pact Slots still don't scale past 5th level or interact with Spellcasting at all, so Warlocks are still the worst upcasters in the game, and they can do nothing to improve it. This is especially glaring for summoning, which they should arguably be toe-to-toe or close at with Wizards (look at how many summoning spells they get for proof). Consider the GOOlock capstone - you get to Summon Aberration, but you have to use your own slots to do it so it's never getting stronger than its 4th level version - even with the buffs to its damage and health, it's not going to compete with a 6th level summon never mind an 8th-level one from any wizard, and especially not a Conjurer or Necromancer.
I'm not against Pact Slots returning, but give Warlocks actual spellcasting too. Or let Mystic Arcanum be usable for upcasting in some way, even if you have to spend invocations on the privilege.
TBH those summoning spells shouldn't be allowed to be upcast beyond level 5 because from 6th level + those summons are more powerful than the average martial, which as a martial-loving player I find really horrid.
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
So. Am I due to give my brain a little vacation, or am I actually having a proper idea here? :)
personally, i feel like the 1 minute downtime required to accomplish Magical Cunning is plenty cost: it cannot be cast in combat and it can be interrupted. so then, a short rest with as little mother-may-i as possible (minus the healing, but also minus the clock stop). if it also required concentration, can anyone name a good reason to limit number of uses of Magical Cunning at all? a reason that isn't also an argument for limiting number of short rests in a day, anyway.
edit: previously i was thinking warlocks should get 'short cut to power' rituals with reduced casting time. 10-minutes, maybe, rather than an hour. although, 1-minute recharge of [some] pact slots would take up that 'utility casting' slack.
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
So. Am I due to give my brain a little vacation, or am I actually having a proper idea here? :)
personally, i feel like the 1 minute downtime required to accomplish Magical Cunning is plenty cost. it cannot be cast in combat and it can be interrupted. so then, a short rest with as little mother-may-i as possible (minus the healing, but also minus the clock stop). if it also broke concentration, can anyone name a good reason to limit number of uses of Magical Cunning at all? a reason that isn't also an argument for limiting number of short rests in a day, anyway.
This doesn't qualify for your second point, but I think the second point sort of ignores that the short rest mechanic exists as a pacing mechanic. If the Warlock can regain their most powerful spells on any 1-minute rest they'll virtually never be stressed for spell resources the way that other full casters can be. Taking a breather X number of times between encounters before a long rest is one thing, but virtually unlimited magical cunning just removes that pacing mechanic from the DM's toolbox.
Can't we just go with the Channel Divinity route? At this point it really is the best compromise between the people whom like the current Pactslots and those that feel it's too restricted/punishing. It also has the added benefits of making the Warlock experience more consistent while reducing the multiclass benefits.
TBH those summoning spells shouldn't be allowed to be upcast beyond level 5 because from 6th level + those summons are more powerful than the average martial, which as a martial-loving player I find really horrid.
I think it's a poorly built martial indeed who can't keep up with an upcast Summon. More importantly, the problem is that only Warlocks are restricted in this way - Wizards, Druids, Clerics, Bards with MS, and Sorcerers like Clockwork or Aberrant Mind all have no issue with upcasting those summons to 6th or 8th level. Even if you leave the restriction in place for Warlocks, it doesn't stop those summons from existing for pretty much all of the other full casters.
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
So. Am I due to give my brain a little vacation, or am I actually having a proper idea here? :)
THANK you! THAT'S what I've been wanting from the START! That's along the lines of what I suggested since the start of the previous Warlock playtest, and NO ONE listened to me! Thank you!!!
(I'd tie it to class level rather than proficiency bonus myself, but the principle idea is the same)
TBH those summoning spells shouldn't be allowed to be upcast beyond level 5 because from 6th level + those summons are more powerful than the average martial, which as a martial-loving player I find really horrid.
I think it's a poorly built martial indeed who can't keep up with an upcast Summon. More importantly, the problem is that only Warlocks are restricted in this way - Wizards, Druids, Clerics, Bards with MS, and Sorcerers like Clockwork or Aberrant Mind all have no issue with upcasting those summons to 6th or 8th level. Even if you leave the restriction in place for Warlocks, it doesn't stop those summons from existing for pretty much all of the other full casters.
Agile's got a point.
I love the ideas of a summoned monster, but it's still adding another body on the field and equivalent to getting and equal or higher level PC come in to help.
I think his concern is reasonable as spellcasters tend to outstrip martials too easily, (I don't mind a SMALL power imbalance, but it's a bit crazy with some of the spell list), but instead of banning up casting, lowering the level of what gets summoned would be better and,l if that sucks too much, there's other mechanics that can be tweaked than just power level to hit the right sweet spot
THANK you! THAT'S what I've been wanting from the START! That's along the lines of what I suggested since the start of the previous Warlock playtest, and NO ONE listened to me! Thank you!!!
(I'd tie it to class level rather than proficiency bonus myself, but the principle idea is the same)
I only became forum-active recently, so I didn't see your (obviously brilliant) suggestion back then. Otherwise I'd have credited you for inspiration, Mezzie! But we can share in this clear and overflowing genius (while also being perplexingly humble)!
I love the ideas of a summoned monster, but it's still adding another body on the field and equivalent to getting and equal or higher level PC come in to help.
I think his concern is reasonable as spellcasters tend to outstrip martials too easily, (I don't mind a SMALL power imbalance, but it's a bit crazy with some of the spell list), but instead of banning up casting, lowering the level of what gets summoned would be better and,l if that sucks too much, there's other mechanics that can be tweaked than just power level to hit the right sweet spot
Tasha Summons are useful, but they're hardly outstripping martials. Conjure X can do so, especially on a Shepherd Druid, but that's a problem with those spells specifically (and remember that the DM controls exactly what you get from those anyway) rather than with the concept of summoning as a whole.
I love the ideas of a summoned monster, but it's still adding another body on the field and equivalent to getting and equal or higher level PC come in to help.
I think his concern is reasonable as spellcasters tend to outstrip martials too easily, (I don't mind a SMALL power imbalance, but it's a bit crazy with some of the spell list), but instead of banning up casting, lowering the level of what gets summoned would be better and,l if that sucks too much, there's other mechanics that can be tweaked than just power level to hit the right sweet spot
Tasha Summons are useful, but they're hardly outstripping martials. Conjure X can do so, especially on a Shepherd Druid, but that's a problem with those spells specifically (and remember that the DM controls exactly what you get from those anyway) rather than with the concept of summoning as a whole.
Yeah I didn't look at them specifically when I responded. I was more or less trying to point out that if it's a valid concern, then there's ways of fixing it. Martials do tend to get the short end.
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
So. Am I due to give my brain a little vacation, or am I actually having a proper idea here? :)
personally, i feel like the 1 minute downtime required to accomplish Magical Cunning is plenty cost. it cannot be cast in combat and it can be interrupted. so then, a short rest with as little mother-may-i as possible (minus the healing, but also minus the clock stop). if it also broke concentration, can anyone name a good reason to limit number of uses of Magical Cunning at all? a reason that isn't also an argument for limiting number of short rests in a day, anyway.
This doesn't qualify for your second point, but I think the second point sort of ignores that the short rest mechanic exists as a pacing mechanic. If the Warlock can regain their most powerful spells on any 1-minute rest they'll virtually never be stressed for spell resources the way that other full casters can be. Taking a breather X number of times between encounters before a long rest is one thing, but virtually unlimited magical cunning just removes that pacing mechanic from the DM's toolbox.
Magical Cunning (UA7) only recharges half the [empty!] pact slots which for most of the warlock's career means one. if you don't want them to go into battle with one pact slot, then break their concentration. if we can't trust a dm to curb [potential] abuse with environmental hazards, narrative pressure, and/or enemy patrols (the same reasons we're told the warlock cannot have an hour to short rest right now anyway), then bake in a 40% 'sub-par outcome' rate for attempting to recharge again within 30yds of the first recharge ritual site: failure means you get the spell slot(s) back, but also take 1d4 patron-flavored blow-back damage and add 1 level of exhaustion (-1 to d20 tests & spell DCs, long rest removes 1 exhaustion (UA4)) or poisoned (disadvantage, doesn't stack & cured more easily).
additionally, why require zero pact slots to attempt the refresh? let the player decide when to recoup their pact slot.
16 5th level spell slots might be a little strong.
In a single go? Oh, I absolutely agree with that, Ain! Just like a current level 17 warlock would have after three short rests, right? Or 20 after four short rests. See where I'm going? :)
But in this model, you don't have 16 at any time. You're limited to your total slots. So, most of the time, you would go into a situation with two slots, maybe three, before level 17. The difference lies in when you can regain slots - can you do it by asking everyone to stop for lunch, or can you do it while the rogue checks for traps and the fighter tells the long-suffering cleric about this racing horse she saw down in the village earlier?
So, IS it 16 5th level spell slots? Yes, but no. Maybe. Potentially.
Or, the warlock would feel freed to use these slots on smaller things, like casting Expeditious Retreat to win a footrace back in town, or Enthrall to put a group of hobgoblins in a stupor while the rogue planted evidence in their camp, or any other situation where where a warlock would have spells with no upcast option that they really wanted to use but felt they shouldn't, before.
They're not 5th level slots. They're 1st to 5th level slots, yeah? :)
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
Warlocks of level 1-5 have one(1) spell slot per encounter? How about no.
Otherwise sure.
Hey, it's not my fault if your patron doesn't trust you with any more arcane credit than that in one go, Gabe! They remember what you did last time you accidentally were given extra slots. They'll bring it up at your quarterly performance review, too.
16 5th level spell slots might be a little strong.
In a single go? Oh, I absolutely agree with that, Ain! Just like a current level 17 warlock would have after three short rests, right? Or 20 after four short rests. See where I'm going? :)
But in this model, you don't have 16 at any time. You're limited to your total slots. So, most of the time, you would go into a situation with two slots, maybe three, before level 17. The difference lies in when you can regain slots - can you do it by asking everyone to stop for lunch, or can you do it while the rogue checks for traps and the fighter tells the long-suffering cleric about this racing horse she saw down in the village earlier?
So, IS it 16 5th level spell slots? Yes, but no. Maybe. Potentially.
Or, the warlock would feel freed to use these slots on smaller things, like casting Expeditious Retreat to win a footrace back in town, or Enthrall to put a group of hobgoblins in a stupor while the rogue planted evidence in their camp, or any other situation where where a warlock would have spells with no upcast option that they really wanted to use but felt they shouldn't, before.
They're not 5th level slots. They're 1st to 5th level slots, yeah? :)
Well it would still mean that at level 9 you get to cast 6 level 5 spells in the span of 5 minutes.
That would also mean that Sorcerers multiclassing into Warlock would get to refill their Sorcery points ridiculously fast.
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Agreed, spending hit dice to get spell slots back feels like a very Warlock thing to be able to do. I'd rather see it as an out of combat feature though. For instance instead of the Magic Cunning Ritual the Warlock would get the option to ennact a ritual that could recover spell slots equal to hit dice expended and these HD would remain expended until after the short rest. This way the Warlock still sacrifices HP for power, but the cost is against the future rather than right now.
Rethinking the Warlock, I think what I'd most like to see is a sort of 2/3 caster that gets Spell Points rather than spell slots, and gets them at a rate somewhere between full and half. Rather than focus on specific spell levels the Warlock gets a max level spell identical to a full caster through 5th level spells, but spells/rest closer to a half caster. This allows both half-caster and pact magic fans of the Warlock to get what they want without giving the warlock full caster status.
Lvl - Spl Points - Full Caster lvls for Comparison
1 - 1 - 2
2 - 2 - 3
3 - 4 - 6
4 - 5 - 7
5 - 6 - 9
6 - 8 - 10
7 - 9 - 11
8 - 10 - 12
9 - 12 - 14
10 - 13 - 15
Hey. Hey guys. I may have had an idea. Tell it to me straight if I'm chasing faeries with this line of thought...
BUT!
Imagine this: Warlock. No longer regain spell slots on Short Rest. Instead, we're going all-in on the new Magical Cunning trait. Warlocks, after all, don't use their own inner power (as sorcerers), nor do they study complex forms to manipulate extant forces (wizards). No, warlocks steal and borrow, right? So, they only use their little minute's worth of haphazard rite to call up their sugar parent and/or dark overlord and beg for some more cake off of the big table. No need to sit down nice and tidy for a right cuppa, all of that short rest.
In this model, we're embracing symmetry and a warlock of level 1 through 5 has 1 spell slot, 6 through 10 has 2, 11 through 16 has 3, and 17+ has 4. Just like with cantrip damage upgrades. We like symmetry.
However, Magical Cunning can be used your proficiency bonus times per day, now. (which, incidentally, allows the warlock's magic power to sorta-kinda multiclass scale a tiny bit, just like other spellcasters can piggyback off of another casting class). And since it is a minute to perform, it won't provide a character with extra slots to use within a single combat encounter, as they're still limited to their maximum number of slots they can hold at a time. Basically, this model replaces the short rest discussion with a fixed number, easily accessed, out-of-combat recovery system.
So, it'd look something like this:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warlock Level Max Slots Magical Cunning Total Daily Slots
1 1 - 1
2 1 1 x2 3
5 2 1 x3 5
9 2 1 x4 6
11 3 2 x4 11 +1 Mystic Arcanum
13 3 2 x5 13 +2 Mystic Arcanum
17 4 2 x6 16 +4 Mystic Arcanum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So. Am I due to give my brain a little vacation, or am I actually having a proper idea here? :)
TBH those summoning spells shouldn't be allowed to be upcast beyond level 5 because from 6th level + those summons are more powerful than the average martial, which as a martial-loving player I find really horrid.
personally, i feel like the 1 minute downtime required to accomplish Magical Cunning is plenty cost: it cannot be cast in combat and it can be interrupted. so then, a short rest with as little mother-may-i as possible (minus the healing, but also minus the clock stop). if it also required concentration, can anyone name a good reason to limit number of uses of Magical Cunning at all? a reason that isn't also an argument for limiting number of short rests in a day, anyway.
edit: previously i was thinking warlocks should get 'short cut to power' rituals with reduced casting time. 10-minutes, maybe, rather than an hour. although, 1-minute recharge of [some] pact slots would take up that 'utility casting' slack.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Presuming this keeps the spell slot max identical I think this would be as good an option as mine, and less complicated.
This doesn't qualify for your second point, but I think the second point sort of ignores that the short rest mechanic exists as a pacing mechanic. If the Warlock can regain their most powerful spells on any 1-minute rest they'll virtually never be stressed for spell resources the way that other full casters can be. Taking a breather X number of times between encounters before a long rest is one thing, but virtually unlimited magical cunning just removes that pacing mechanic from the DM's toolbox.
Can't we just go with the Channel Divinity route? At this point it really is the best compromise between the people whom like the current Pactslots and those that feel it's too restricted/punishing. It also has the added benefits of making the Warlock experience more consistent while reducing the multiclass benefits.
The Channel Divinity route would be, "recover all uses on long rest, and 1 use on short rest?"
How many base slots do you feel the warlock would need to sustain a vaguely-defined adventuring day, with that model of spell-slot recovery?
I think it's a poorly built martial indeed who can't keep up with an upcast Summon. More importantly, the problem is that only Warlocks are restricted in this way - Wizards, Druids, Clerics, Bards with MS, and Sorcerers like Clockwork or Aberrant Mind all have no issue with upcasting those summons to 6th or 8th level. Even if you leave the restriction in place for Warlocks, it doesn't stop those summons from existing for pretty much all of the other full casters.
THANK you! THAT'S what I've been wanting from the START! That's along the lines of what I suggested since the start of the previous Warlock playtest, and NO ONE listened to me! Thank you!!!
(I'd tie it to class level rather than proficiency bonus myself, but the principle idea is the same)
Agile's got a point.
I love the ideas of a summoned monster, but it's still adding another body on the field and equivalent to getting and equal or higher level PC come in to help.
I think his concern is reasonable as spellcasters tend to outstrip martials too easily, (I don't mind a SMALL power imbalance, but it's a bit crazy with some of the spell list), but instead of banning up casting, lowering the level of what gets summoned would be better and,l if that sucks too much, there's other mechanics that can be tweaked than just power level to hit the right sweet spot
I only became forum-active recently, so I didn't see your (obviously brilliant) suggestion back then. Otherwise I'd have credited you for inspiration, Mezzie! But we can share in this clear and overflowing genius (while also being perplexingly humble)!
Now, praise us. Praise, please! *grabby-hands*
16 5th level spell slots might be a little strong.
Tasha Summons are useful, but they're hardly outstripping martials. Conjure X can do so, especially on a Shepherd Druid, but that's a problem with those spells specifically (and remember that the DM controls exactly what you get from those anyway) rather than with the concept of summoning as a whole.
Yeah I didn't look at them specifically when I responded. I was more or less trying to point out that if it's a valid concern, then there's ways of fixing it. Martials do tend to get the short end.
Magical Cunning (UA7) only recharges half the [empty!] pact slots which for most of the warlock's career means one. if you don't want them to go into battle with one pact slot, then break their concentration. if we can't trust a dm to curb [potential] abuse with environmental hazards, narrative pressure, and/or enemy patrols (the same reasons we're told the warlock cannot have an hour to short rest right now anyway), then bake in a 40% 'sub-par outcome' rate for attempting to recharge again within 30yds of the first recharge ritual site: failure means you get the spell slot(s) back, but also take 1d4 patron-flavored blow-back damage and add 1 level of exhaustion (-1 to d20 tests & spell DCs, long rest removes 1 exhaustion (UA4)) or poisoned (disadvantage, doesn't stack & cured more easily).
additionally, why require zero pact slots to attempt the refresh? let the player decide when to recoup their pact slot.
but crucially not all in the same encounter.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
In a single go? Oh, I absolutely agree with that, Ain! Just like a current level 17 warlock would have after three short rests, right? Or 20 after four short rests. See where I'm going? :)
But in this model, you don't have 16 at any time. You're limited to your total slots. So, most of the time, you would go into a situation with two slots, maybe three, before level 17. The difference lies in when you can regain slots - can you do it by asking everyone to stop for lunch, or can you do it while the rogue checks for traps and the fighter tells the long-suffering cleric about this racing horse she saw down in the village earlier?
So, IS it 16 5th level spell slots? Yes, but no. Maybe. Potentially.
Or, the warlock would feel freed to use these slots on smaller things, like casting Expeditious Retreat to win a footrace back in town, or Enthrall to put a group of hobgoblins in a stupor while the rogue planted evidence in their camp, or any other situation where where a warlock would have spells with no upcast option that they really wanted to use but felt they shouldn't, before.
They're not 5th level slots. They're 1st to 5th level slots, yeah? :)
Warlocks of level 1-5 have one(1) spell slot per encounter? How about no.
Otherwise sure.
Hey, it's not my fault if your patron doesn't trust you with any more arcane credit than that in one go, Gabe! They remember what you did last time you accidentally were given extra slots. They'll bring it up at your quarterly performance review, too.
:)
Well it would still mean that at level 9 you get to cast 6 level 5 spells in the span of 5 minutes.
That would also mean that Sorcerers multiclassing into Warlock would get to refill their Sorcery points ridiculously fast.