I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
Just to be clear, rules as written the creature knows where the warlock is after they teleport and are invisible unless they take the hide action. Yes they get disadvantage on their attack though, but they don't have to "guess the square" regardless of the terrain.
That said, I again encourage the suggestion that the "added effects" from misty escape only work with the reaction version and I think we would be ok.
Edit: BTW I put in the info I was hoping to about beguiling defense
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
Just to be clear, rules as written the creature knows where the warlock is after they teleport and are invisible unless they take the hide action. Yes they get disadvantage on their attack though, but they don't have to "guess the square" regardless of the terrain.
That said, I again encourage the suggestion that the "added effects" from misty escape only work with the reaction version and I think we would be ok.
Edit: BTW I put in the info I was hoping to about beguiling defense
I agree, if it goes back to just an added effect of the reaction, it would be safer.
As for beguiling defense.... The narrative flavor is very weak.
I don't disagree with what you laid out. Defense against charm is silly. What they did was try to make it "useful" but the half damage is very clunky, the flavor is bad, and for all this you can do it only once per LONG rest. It makes it a last ditch effort against death or something you pull out when facing something that can one shot you......... at level 10. So basically you stepped into an ancient dragon's lair and you're basically hoping to save your own ass long enough to get an extra turn to escape.. which you probably won't.
Honestly, THAT ability at level 3 with the non-combat fey presence would be perfect for 3rd level, probably combine the 3rd level fey step with the 6th level but remove the invisibility bonus, and free up the 10th slot for your current 14th misty step and put in a decent 14th level.
I don't think any of that would be overpowered as I just proposed.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
Yeah, I don't disagree or really mind. We already pointed out how relatively unused it is...
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
Yeah, I don't disagree or really mind. We already pointed out how relatively unused it is...
Ya, and that is why they added the rider. My biggest issue with it is it competes with your reaction which you may be using on misty escape. If it did something that didn't use your reaction in addition to charm immunity I think it may be more interesting.
The more I look at the Archfey patron, the more I start to get the outline of this soft-control tank character. A real kiter of a range-tank :)
Imagine, right from the get-go, you can run in and attack, and then Taunting Step away to a location that's hard for the villains to follow, or that gives you cover. Now they have a good chance of having disadvantage on any attacks they make against your allies. So, your whole group is protected. Sure, not as reliably as some Barbarian or Fighter options, but it is an AoE "taunt", so that's fair.
It becomes even better at 6th, when you can just interrupt a multiattack by vanishing with Taunting Step. If the monster wants to continue attacking your allies with the rest of its attacks? Disadvantage!
Beguiling Defenses gives you a limited supply of a punishing version of Uncanny Dodge to temper a lucky critical hit against you, for instance.
I feel like this could have the makings of a very unorthodox but amusing team protector :)
The more I look at the Archfey patron, the more I start to get the outline of this soft-control tank character. A real kiter of a range-tank :)
Imagine, right from the get-go, you can run in and attack, and then Taunting Step away to a location that's hard for the villains to follow, or that gives you cover. Now they have a good chance of having disadvantage on any attacks they make against your allies. So, your whole group is protected. Sure, not as reliably as some Barbarian or Fighter options, but it is an AoE "taunt", so that's fair.
It becomes even better at 6th, when you can just interrupt a multiattack by vanishing with Taunting Step. If the monster wants to continue attacking your allies with the rest of its attacks? Disadvantage!
Beguiling Defenses gives you a limited supply of a punishing version of Uncanny Dodge to temper a lucky critical hit against you, for instance.
I feel like this could have the makings of a very unorthodox but amusing team protector :)
You mean like a swashbuckler?
Seriously. Compare the two's abilities/stats... There's more overlap than you'd guess.
I'd like to see the Great Old One be a little more Illithid-themed. Their 6th level Clairvoyant Combatant feature should specify that "attacks" includes spell attacks. And i think itd be better if it was more than once per rest or using one of your very previous spell slots. That is a bad mechanic. Similar to monk problems, where everything costs your one resource. But i'd also like to see them get some kind of stunning telekinetic blast like mindflayers- maybe at higher level.
I think it's pretty good, but could be a little better.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
Just to be clear, rules as written the creature knows where the warlock is after they teleport and are invisible unless they take the hide action. Yes they get disadvantage on their attack though, but they don't have to "guess the square" regardless of the terrain.
That said, I again encourage the suggestion that the "added effects" from misty escape only work with the reaction version and I think we would be ok.
Edit: BTW I put in the info I was hoping to about beguiling defense
I agree, if it goes back to just an added effect of the reaction, it would be safer.
As for beguiling defense.... The narrative flavor is very weak.
I don't disagree with what you laid out. Defense against charm is silly. What they did was try to make it "useful" but the half damage is very clunky, the flavor is bad, and for all this you can do it only once per LONG rest. It makes it a last ditch effort against death or something you pull out when facing something that can one shot you......... at level 10. So basically you stepped into an ancient dragon's lair and you're basically hoping to save your own ass long enough to get an extra turn to escape.. which you probably won't.
Honestly, THAT ability at level 3 with the non-combat fey presence would be perfect for 3rd level, probably combine the 3rd level fey step with the 6th level but remove the invisibility bonus, and free up the 10th slot for your current 14th misty step and put in a decent 14th level.
I don't think any of that would be overpowered as I just proposed.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
Yeah, I don't disagree or really mind. We already pointed out how relatively unused it is...
Ya, and that is why they added the rider. My biggest issue with it is it competes with your reaction which you may be using on misty escape. If it did something that didn't use your reaction in addition to charm immunity I think it may be more interesting.
The more I look at the Archfey patron, the more I start to get the outline of this soft-control tank character. A real kiter of a range-tank :)
Imagine, right from the get-go, you can run in and attack, and then Taunting Step away to a location that's hard for the villains to follow, or that gives you cover. Now they have a good chance of having disadvantage on any attacks they make against your allies. So, your whole group is protected. Sure, not as reliably as some Barbarian or Fighter options, but it is an AoE "taunt", so that's fair.
It becomes even better at 6th, when you can just interrupt a multiattack by vanishing with Taunting Step. If the monster wants to continue attacking your allies with the rest of its attacks? Disadvantage!
Beguiling Defenses gives you a limited supply of a punishing version of Uncanny Dodge to temper a lucky critical hit against you, for instance.
I feel like this could have the makings of a very unorthodox but amusing team protector :)
You mean like a swashbuckler?
Seriously. Compare the two's abilities/stats... There's more overlap than you'd guess.
I'd like to see the Great Old One be a little more Illithid-themed. Their 6th level Clairvoyant Combatant feature should specify that "attacks" includes spell attacks. And i think itd be better if it was more than once per rest or using one of your very previous spell slots. That is a bad mechanic. Similar to monk problems, where everything costs your one resource. But i'd also like to see them get some kind of stunning telekinetic blast like mindflayers- maybe at higher level.
I think it's pretty good, but could be a little better.
well....6th ed mostly feels like an excuse to sell more books. It could just be an eratta or two