Yup I think if it was printed in this form I would have probably thought it much less restrictive and straight away seen it as a flexibility tool whitch maintains the ability to do damage at the same time. Just 1 MA is not that bad you give up 2 Weapon attacks in exchange for 4d8 this turn and more damage next turn or any of the other flexible options all of which do fit into a nice table with Move, Attack, AoE, Heal and Self Destruct.
@Spikepit I can only speak for myself, but I have tried not to compare the artificer with a damage class. In fact I have consistently thought it was laughable that people were trying to compare the artificer's damage output to that of a fighter.
However, my points have been regarding the artillerist's clunkiness in combat. Many of their support abilities come from their infusions, which passively boost the party in combat and as a half caster their spells are only a small part of combat.
That leaves, for the artillerist, their turret being the main thing they focus on during combat. It honestly leaves for a boring turn or two, as they setup. The alchemist doesn't fall into this trap considering their homonculus is always on and has several bonus action abilities it can use.
My main "complaint" in the artillerist isn't damage output, it is mundane turns.
Playing an artificer artillerist in one game and the alchemist in another... Right now im more toward the artillerist. Right now i see the only argument people make is... "I cant 1 turn kill an opponent so it sucks" thats literally all im seeing and from my perspective everything people say is bad about is the very reason i like it.
My only thing is... The wand thing is random on artillerist. I would put that into a sub class of its own and put the turret as a main thing like the beast master ranger.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
(or socially started combat where Dropping the Turret is a Declaration or War)
"It was going so well, our bard had almost convinced the Thieves' Guild to let us go. But then the Artificer 'Dropped the Turret' and all hell broke loose."
Thought Experiment for a new feature. "Drop the Turret: When rolling initiative, if you have a free use of your Arcane Turret, you may deploy it in an adjacent square if one is available."
I really like this feature, it partially solves the action economy argument. Also, people will learn to never underestimate an Artificer, they've always got something up their sleeves.
@Spikepit I can only speak for myself, but I have tried not to compare the artificer with a damage class. In fact I have consistently thought it was laughable that people were trying to compare the artificer's damage output to that of a fighter.
However, my points have been regarding the artillerist's clunkiness in combat. Many of their support abilities come from their infusions, which passively boost the party in combat and as a half caster their spells are only a small part of combat.
That leaves, for the artillerist, their turret being the main thing they focus on during combat. It honestly leaves for a boring turn or two, as they setup. The alchemist doesn't fall into this trap considering their homonculus is always on and has several bonus action abilities it can use.
My main "complaint" in the artillerist isn't damage output, it is mundane turns.
Playing an artificer artillerist in one game and the alchemist in another... Right now im more toward the artillerist. Right now i see the only argument people make is... "I cant 1 turn kill an opponent so it sucks" thats literally all im seeing and from my perspective everything people say is bad about is the very reason i like it.
My only thing is... The wand thing is random on artillerist. I would put that into a sub class of its own and put the turret as a main thing like the beast master ranger.
Within the post you quoted it includes my one real complaint about the sub-class, which is regarding the clunkiness of the turret regarding initial first few rounds of combat and has no relation to the "I can't 1 turn kill an opponent so it sucks" caricature that you claim is the sole argument people are making.
I feel like the wand thing was totally random. It's like "you're a smith who does war-related things and turrets and OH YEAH BY THE WAY YOU JUST REALLY CARE ABOUT WANDS FOR SOME REASON"
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i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
Why would any intelligent enemi waste his action destroying your turret while destroying the artificer actually stops the turret from attacking.
have you heard of AOE damage? also the turret can't really run away unlike the artificer. and just to be clear: it was a comparisson of spiritual weapon vs turret and nothing else. you know to evaluate something you have to list ALL the cons and pros and not only those that fit your viewpoint.
it feels kinda pointless arguing with you when you ignore the majority of my points. have a good day sir.
im not the one saying shit like "wasting an action to summon a turret sucks" or "it takes spellslots to summon it again" or worse one yet is the fact you think wasting an action to summon a turret is the worse part of it all because right now you seem to think like a power gamer who only see mechanical benefits. And i thus cant imagine you liking classes with ribbons at high level.
Want me to compare weapon to turret again ?
Turret has actual stats. Including hps much higher then what a single attack by your attacker can dish out. Meaning if he bashes the turret you effectively just saved your group a bunch of hit points. The turret as an actual physical body meaning it can actually block a door for you to stop enemies from going after you. The turret actually defend itself... It has an ac. The turret can hit opponent far from it.
All of those are things the spritual weapon cannot ever do. Literally all the spiritual weapon has is damage. It cannot really do anything else. It is not garanteed damage either as you still have to make the attack. Just like the turret.
So yeah i dont get why youd ever use spiritual weapon but never use the turret.
@grizzlegrub to me the fact it is free once and the cost spell slots is actually to stop it from being monotone. Because you literally dont have it every fights. That is the problem i have with it. Id drop the second turret and make it a compagnion like creature like the beast master ranger. After all its already acting as such by stats alone. Id also drop the want thing and just concentrate on the turret gaining abilities as you level up.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I played my artificer (converted to the new version for last nights dungeon) for the first time last night. She is 8th level (Cleric 5/Artificer 3). I had Spiritual Weapon and my Arcane Turret. Because of the situation, I was using my turret in defense mode.
I discovered my Spiritual Weapon to be a waste, I was having to use the Temp HP feature of the Turret far more often. I'll be interested next week to see how the Force Ballista works (we are headed into Kwalish's extra-dimensional workshop. We just defeats the bauble guardian he had at the entrance to his workshop. :)
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
@Spikepit I can only speak for myself, but I have tried not to compare the artificer with a damage class. In fact I have consistently thought it was laughable that people were trying to compare the artificer's damage output to that of a fighter.
However, my points have been regarding the artillerist's clunkiness in combat. Many of their support abilities come from their infusions, which passively boost the party in combat and as a half caster their spells are only a small part of combat.
That leaves, for the artillerist, their turret being the main thing they focus on during combat. It honestly leaves for a boring turn or two, as they setup. The alchemist doesn't fall into this trap considering their homonculus is always on and has several bonus action abilities it can use.
My main "complaint" in the artillerist isn't damage output, it is mundane turns.
Playing an artificer artillerist in one game and the alchemist in another... Right now im more toward the artillerist. Right now i see the only argument people make is... "I cant 1 turn kill an opponent so it sucks" thats literally all im seeing and from my perspective everything people say is bad about is the very reason i like it.
My only thing is... The wand thing is random on artillerist. I would put that into a sub class of its own and put the turret as a main thing like the beast master ranger.
This right here is my main problem with the Artillerist. I actually LOVE the turret, and its concept, but don't like how being a wand mage is tacked onto it.
The "Wand Prototype" feature should be moved onto a a separate Subclass with a focus on carving powerful weapons of arcane death (and be moved to level 3... and give access to all evocation cantrips with a range of 60 ft or above).
I'm not sure what the artillerist should get instead though... maybe a feature that allows you craft an enhancement to a ranged weapon you are using? Or even allowing you to quickly craft utility ammunition (and leave it vague so that it could be anything from arrows, bolts, darts, and bullets?). You start out only being able to craft 2 types of ammo. Repelling Ammo (pushes an enemy back 10 feet if hit and they are large or smaller). Harpoon Ammo (drags an enemy 10 feet towards you if hit and they are large or smaller). And then at level 14 you get various other ammo types that you can use to mess with enemy positioning/conditions (stun ammo? ammo that you can control so it ignores cover? ect).
@DnDPaladin, for me when I speak of monotony I am talking about the current iteration when it comes to opening combat. From levels 3 - 13 it isn't as bad, considering you can only have one turret out at a time. Once you get the second turret at level 14, however, the opening round(s) of combat can be quick and boring for a Artillerist compared to other classes. That is actually why I recommended allowing the summoning of up to two turrets as an action.
Personally I'm not a fan of dropping the second turret and turning the original turret into a psuedo-companion because it removes its uniqueness and then just turns the Artillerist into the Artificer's Beast Master class.
Upon summoning up my turret, or possibly by spending an Action prior to summoning, I replace the Flamethrower with a Warfprge's Wand Sheath. I then slide whatever wand I have available into the Wand Sheath the following round. Then as a Bonus Action I fire the wand. All subject to the DM of course.
I can see issues with retrieving the wand (or it being possibly destroyed) especially if I detonate the Turret. But there are so many possibilities for a creative artificer and an inovative DM. :)
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
What about if you could spend an action to switch types and activate it a second time?
As an action, you can change one of your turret's types, choosing from the other options on the Arcane Turrets table if you are within 60 feet of it. Immediately after you change the turret type you can activate that turret as part of this action.
It adds a little bit of flexibility, while still not breaking the action economy too much.
Upon summoning up my turret, or possibly by spending an Action prior to summoning, I replace the Flamethrower with a Warfprge's Wand Sheath. I then slide whatever wand I have available into the Wand Sheath the following round. Then as a Bonus Action I fire the wand. All subject to the DM of course.
I can see issues with retrieving the wand (or it being possibly destroyed) especially if I detonate the Turret. But there are so many possibilities for a creative artificer and an inovative DM. :)
That does bring an interesting replacement idea for the Wand Prototype:
Arcane Overdrive
At 6th level, you have learned how to channel your arcane magic through your turret. As a bonus action, you can cast one cantrip you know that requires a ranged attack roll, originating from the turret. Casting a cantrip in such a way changes the casting time to a bonus action and any damage roll you make gains a bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1). You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
I feel like the wand thing was totally random. It's like "you're a smith who does war-related things and turrets and OH YEAH BY THE WAY YOU JUST REALLY CARE ABOUT WANDS FOR SOME REASON"
I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair assessment, though. Using their Tools of the Trade class feature they gain at 3rd level, an artillerist gains the ability to quickly and cheaply create wands. So it isn't like at level 6 you suddenly care about wands.
I feel like the wand thing was totally random. It's like "you're a smith who does war-related things and turrets and OH YEAH BY THE WAY YOU JUST REALLY CARE ABOUT WANDS FOR SOME REASON"
I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair assessment, though. Using their Tools of the Trade class feature they gain at 3rd level, an artillerist gains the ability to quickly and cheaply create wands. So it isn't like at level 6 you suddenly care about wands.
It's not that it's all of a sudden you care, it just seems kind of odd in the flavour. It's a subclass built around turrets and other mechanical things, and the wand thing just seems somewhat random.
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i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
I feel like the wand thing was totally random. It's like "you're a smith who does war-related things and turrets and OH YEAH BY THE WAY YOU JUST REALLY CARE ABOUT WANDS FOR SOME REASON"
I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair assessment, though. Using their Tools of the Trade class feature they gain at 3rd level, an artillerist gains the ability to quickly and cheaply create wands. So it isn't like at level 6 you suddenly care about wands.
It's not that it's all of a sudden you care, it just seems kind of odd in the flavour. It's a subclass built around turrets and other mechanical things, and the wand thing just seems somewhat random.
I had this idea around a Turret which is just a wand with legs in an attempt to make that not as jarring, but it does seem a little strange. Either go all turret, or all wands... why attempt both at the same time?
But if you are consistently building wands from level 3 to 5 then getting a prototype wand at level 6 doesn't seem random.
And to be honest, it isn't the first time a class gets new features that, from a narrative perspective, comes out of left field. Just look at a Gloomstalker Ranger mysteriously getting dark vision and disappearing in darkness at 3rd level.
I love the idea of wands for the Artillerist. I have the idea in my head for a character I am planning to play; He wears scale mail armour and uses a shield on one arm and wields a wand with a gun-like grip, in the other hand. So he would look like a fantasy swat agent.
I like that they have given the Artificer so many options, so that you can change your play style, without having to reroll your character or wait for a few level ups, to swap out spells or features (although Artificers get that as well :D).
I feel like the wand thing was totally random. It's like "you're a smith who does war-related things and turrets and OH YEAH BY THE WAY YOU JUST REALLY CARE ABOUT WANDS FOR SOME REASON"
I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair assessment, though. Using their Tools of the Trade class feature they gain at 3rd level, an artillerist gains the ability to quickly and cheaply create wands. So it isn't like at level 6 you suddenly care about wands.
It's not that it's all of a sudden you care, it just seems kind of odd in the flavour. It's a subclass built around turrets and other mechanical things, and the wand thing just seems somewhat random.
I have been thinking about the Wand use at 6th level and it is kind of wasted in a way. Your an up in coming Artificer and you go the Artilerest route so for levels 1 and 2 your using your crossbow with the spell Arcane Weapon at level 3 you get your turret so boss fight happens you drop the turret and then start in with the crossbow works good you go up in power your a happy little guy doing your part. Level 4 comes along and realizing your gonna have 2 attacks next level as long as one of the attacks is done with a magic weapon, you infuse your crossbow and make it a +1 if you haven't done it yet. You also decide to go with the crossbow expert feat so you can use it for your second attack, now realizing your bonus action will be used firing the turret you decide to stick with the light crossbow instead of using the hand crossbow you can use. so you can have 2 attacks, and bonus action turret in the big fights, then level 6 comes along and now you can get your Int Mod to an attack cantrip. You just have to give up using that crossbow you mastered, dropping the Arcane Weapon spell you don't really need anymore and you get to start pointing your stick at someone and use a turret as a bonus action when its out. Kind of boring at that, but if you stay with the crossbow you are more engaged in the combat doing a few different things. So yes the Wand to me isn't well thought out, I would much rather level 6 gave something different and more along the lines of what you have been doing for 5 levels. I myself will just put some cantrip into the wand for utility instead of combat.
I love the idea of wands for the Artillerist. I have the idea in my head for a character I am planning to play; He wears scale mail armour and uses a shield on one arm and wields a wand with a gun-like grip, in the other hand. So he would look like a fantasy swat agent.
I like that they have given the Artificer so many options, so that you can change your play style, without having to reroll your character or wait for a few level ups, to swap out spells or features (although Artificers get that as well :D).
I think the concept is great and a few people would like that, but the problem I see is you did not connect wands to turrets in any way.
So if we got a subclass called Wandslinger which focuses fully on Wands while the Artillerist becomes turret and crossbows it would be more consistent and closer to both the lore of Eberron and the concept you presented.
Eg. Your wand can deal cantrip like attack dealing d6 at 120 ft range, why? Because with Arcane Armament you can then cast 2 Cantrips in a turn, would feel unique and awesome and not that imbalanced as it is limited to d6.
I love the idea of wands for the Artillerist. I have the idea in my head for a character I am planning to play; He wears scale mail armour and uses a shield on one arm and wields a wand with a gun-like grip, in the other hand. So he would look like a fantasy swat agent.
I like that they have given the Artificer so many options, so that you can change your play style, without having to reroll your character or wait for a few level ups, to swap out spells or features (although Artificers get that as well :D).
I think the concept is great and a few people would like that, but the problem I see is you did not connect wands to turrets in any way.
So if we got a subclass called Wandslinger which focuses fully on Wands while the Artillerist becomes turret and crossbows it would be more consistent and closer to both the lore of Eberron and the concept you presented.
Eg. Your wand can deal cantrip like attack dealing d6 at 120 ft range, why? Because with Arcane Armament you can then cast 2 Cantrips in a turn, would feel unique and awesome and not that imbalanced as it is limited to d6.
Sorry, but I don't see why crossbows are supposedly more artificer than wands and I don't see how they fit more with turrets either. To me, artificers are makers of magical items, so crossbows infused with magic and wands, are just as worthy of being a part of the artificer theme as each other. And from what I have seen and read, an Eberron focused, artillerist artificer, would actually make more sense with the wands (and rods and staves) than with a crossbow. And how is the turret more 'consistent' with a crossbow, instead of a wand?
I don't understand why people are so keen to go super specialised with the sub classes either. I think having flexibility to play different styles, and being able to change that style without having to re-roll the character, is fantastic. Being able to play a shield+wand combo, with a tactical turret for cover and support, or going crossbow with arcane weapon and the turret for extra punch, or even going sword+shield with the turret for ranged backup, all sound like great fun. And with the current artillerist, you can do all 3 with one build (although, you will have to pickup some proficiencies and/or feats to really get the most out of them)
I hope Wizards of the Coast don't get totally bombarded with that kind of feedback, and decide to take away that flexibility, I think it would be a shame. But they have to listen to the majority at least a bit, if they want to continue to be successful. We will just have to see how it all shakes out I suppose.
Yup I think if it was printed in this form I would have probably thought it much less restrictive and straight away seen it as a flexibility tool whitch maintains the ability to do damage at the same time. Just 1 MA is not that bad you give up 2 Weapon attacks in exchange for 4d8 this turn and more damage next turn or any of the other flexible options all of which do fit into a nice table with Move, Attack, AoE, Heal and Self Destruct.
Playing an artificer artillerist in one game and the alchemist in another... Right now im more toward the artillerist. Right now i see the only argument people make is... "I cant 1 turn kill an opponent so it sucks" thats literally all im seeing and from my perspective everything people say is bad about is the very reason i like it.
My only thing is... The wand thing is random on artillerist. I would put that into a sub class of its own and put the turret as a main thing like the beast master ranger.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I really like this feature, it partially solves the action economy argument. Also, people will learn to never underestimate an Artificer, they've always got something up their sleeves.
Within the post you quoted it includes my one real complaint about the sub-class, which is regarding the clunkiness of the turret regarding initial first few rounds of combat and has no relation to the "I can't 1 turn kill an opponent so it sucks" caricature that you claim is the sole argument people are making.
I feel like the wand thing was totally random. It's like "you're a smith who does war-related things and turrets and OH YEAH BY THE WAY YOU JUST REALLY CARE ABOUT WANDS FOR SOME REASON"
i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
im not the one saying shit like "wasting an action to summon a turret sucks" or "it takes spellslots to summon it again" or worse one yet is the fact you think wasting an action to summon a turret is the worse part of it all because right now you seem to think like a power gamer who only see mechanical benefits. And i thus cant imagine you liking classes with ribbons at high level.
Want me to compare weapon to turret again ?
Turret has actual stats. Including hps much higher then what a single attack by your attacker can dish out. Meaning if he bashes the turret you effectively just saved your group a bunch of hit points. The turret as an actual physical body meaning it can actually block a door for you to stop enemies from going after you. The turret actually defend itself... It has an ac. The turret can hit opponent far from it.
All of those are things the spritual weapon cannot ever do. Literally all the spiritual weapon has is damage. It cannot really do anything else. It is not garanteed damage either as you still have to make the attack. Just like the turret.
So yeah i dont get why youd ever use spiritual weapon but never use the turret.
@grizzlegrub to me the fact it is free once and the cost spell slots is actually to stop it from being monotone. Because you literally dont have it every fights. That is the problem i have with it. Id drop the second turret and make it a compagnion like creature like the beast master ranger. After all its already acting as such by stats alone. Id also drop the want thing and just concentrate on the turret gaining abilities as you level up.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I played my artificer (converted to the new version for last nights dungeon) for the first time last night. She is 8th level (Cleric 5/Artificer 3). I had Spiritual Weapon and my Arcane Turret. Because of the situation, I was using my turret in defense mode.
I discovered my Spiritual Weapon to be a waste, I was having to use the Temp HP feature of the Turret far more often. I'll be interested next week to see how the Force Ballista works (we are headed into Kwalish's extra-dimensional workshop. We just defeats the bauble guardian he had at the entrance to his workshop. :)
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
This right here is my main problem with the Artillerist. I actually LOVE the turret, and its concept, but don't like how being a wand mage is tacked onto it.
The "Wand Prototype" feature should be moved onto a a separate Subclass with a focus on carving powerful weapons of arcane death (and be moved to level 3... and give access to all evocation cantrips with a range of 60 ft or above).
I'm not sure what the artillerist should get instead though... maybe a feature that allows you craft an enhancement to a ranged weapon you are using? Or even allowing you to quickly craft utility ammunition (and leave it vague so that it could be anything from arrows, bolts, darts, and bullets?). You start out only being able to craft 2 types of ammo. Repelling Ammo (pushes an enemy back 10 feet if hit and they are large or smaller). Harpoon Ammo (drags an enemy 10 feet towards you if hit and they are large or smaller). And then at level 14 you get various other ammo types that you can use to mess with enemy positioning/conditions (stun ammo? ammo that you can control so it ignores cover? ect).
@DnDPaladin, for me when I speak of monotony I am talking about the current iteration when it comes to opening combat. From levels 3 - 13 it isn't as bad, considering you can only have one turret out at a time. Once you get the second turret at level 14, however, the opening round(s) of combat can be quick and boring for a Artillerist compared to other classes. That is actually why I recommended allowing the summoning of up to two turrets as an action.
Personally I'm not a fan of dropping the second turret and turning the original turret into a psuedo-companion because it removes its uniqueness and then just turns the Artillerist into the Artificer's Beast Master class.
Idea (subject to the GM)
Upon summoning up my turret, or possibly by spending an Action prior to summoning, I replace the Flamethrower with a Warfprge's Wand Sheath. I then slide whatever wand I have available into the Wand Sheath the following round. Then as a Bonus Action I fire the wand. All subject to the DM of course.
I can see issues with retrieving the wand (or it being possibly destroyed) especially if I detonate the Turret. But there are so many possibilities for a creative artificer and an inovative DM. :)
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
What about if you could spend an action to switch types and activate it a second time?
As an action, you can change one of your turret's types, choosing from the other options on the Arcane Turrets table if you are within 60 feet of it. Immediately after you change the turret type you can activate that turret as part of this action.
It adds a little bit of flexibility, while still not breaking the action economy too much.
That does bring an interesting replacement idea for the Wand Prototype:
Arcane Overdrive
At 6th level, you have learned how to channel your arcane magic through your turret. As a bonus action, you can cast one cantrip you know that requires a ranged attack roll, originating from the turret. Casting a cantrip in such a way changes the casting time to a bonus action and any damage roll you make gains a bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1). You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair assessment, though. Using their Tools of the Trade class feature they gain at 3rd level, an artillerist gains the ability to quickly and cheaply create wands. So it isn't like at level 6 you suddenly care about wands.
It's not that it's all of a sudden you care, it just seems kind of odd in the flavour. It's a subclass built around turrets and other mechanical things, and the wand thing just seems somewhat random.
i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
I had this idea around a Turret which is just a wand with legs in an attempt to make that not as jarring, but it does seem a little strange. Either go all turret, or all wands... why attempt both at the same time?
But if you are consistently building wands from level 3 to 5 then getting a prototype wand at level 6 doesn't seem random.
And to be honest, it isn't the first time a class gets new features that, from a narrative perspective, comes out of left field. Just look at a Gloomstalker Ranger mysteriously getting dark vision and disappearing in darkness at 3rd level.
I love the idea of wands for the Artillerist. I have the idea in my head for a character I am planning to play; He wears scale mail armour and uses a shield on one arm and wields a wand with a gun-like grip, in the other hand. So he would look like a fantasy swat agent.
I like that they have given the Artificer so many options, so that you can change your play style, without having to reroll your character or wait for a few level ups, to swap out spells or features (although Artificers get that as well :D).
David Gearlock | Human | Artificer | Revenge Heist
Knox | Warforged | Cleric | Shadowthorn's Out of the Abyss
I have been thinking about the Wand use at 6th level and it is kind of wasted in a way. Your an up in coming Artificer and you go the Artilerest route so for levels 1 and 2 your using your crossbow with the spell Arcane Weapon at level 3 you get your turret so boss fight happens you drop the turret and then start in with the crossbow works good you go up in power your a happy little guy doing your part. Level 4 comes along and realizing your gonna have 2 attacks next level as long as one of the attacks is done with a magic weapon, you infuse your crossbow and make it a +1 if you haven't done it yet. You also decide to go with the crossbow expert feat so you can use it for your second attack, now realizing your bonus action will be used firing the turret you decide to stick with the light crossbow instead of using the hand crossbow you can use. so you can have 2 attacks, and bonus action turret in the big fights, then level 6 comes along and now you can get your Int Mod to an attack cantrip. You just have to give up using that crossbow you mastered, dropping the Arcane Weapon spell you don't really need anymore and you get to start pointing your stick at someone and use a turret as a bonus action when its out. Kind of boring at that, but if you stay with the crossbow you are more engaged in the combat doing a few different things. So yes the Wand to me isn't well thought out, I would much rather level 6 gave something different and more along the lines of what you have been doing for 5 levels. I myself will just put some cantrip into the wand for utility instead of combat.
I think the concept is great and a few people would like that, but the problem I see is you did not connect wands to turrets in any way.
So if we got a subclass called Wandslinger which focuses fully on Wands while the Artillerist becomes turret and crossbows it would be more consistent and closer to both the lore of Eberron and the concept you presented.
Eg. Your wand can deal cantrip like attack dealing d6 at 120 ft range, why? Because with Arcane Armament you can then cast 2 Cantrips in a turn, would feel unique and awesome and not that imbalanced as it is limited to d6.
Sorry, but I don't see why crossbows are supposedly more artificer than wands and I don't see how they fit more with turrets either. To me, artificers are makers of magical items, so crossbows infused with magic and wands, are just as worthy of being a part of the artificer theme as each other. And from what I have seen and read, an Eberron focused, artillerist artificer, would actually make more sense with the wands (and rods and staves) than with a crossbow. And how is the turret more 'consistent' with a crossbow, instead of a wand?
I don't understand why people are so keen to go super specialised with the sub classes either. I think having flexibility to play different styles, and being able to change that style without having to re-roll the character, is fantastic. Being able to play a shield+wand combo, with a tactical turret for cover and support, or going crossbow with arcane weapon and the turret for extra punch, or even going sword+shield with the turret for ranged backup, all sound like great fun. And with the current artillerist, you can do all 3 with one build (although, you will have to pickup some proficiencies and/or feats to really get the most out of them)
I hope Wizards of the Coast don't get totally bombarded with that kind of feedback, and decide to take away that flexibility, I think it would be a shame. But they have to listen to the majority at least a bit, if they want to continue to be successful. We will just have to see how it all shakes out I suppose.
David Gearlock | Human | Artificer | Revenge Heist
Knox | Warforged | Cleric | Shadowthorn's Out of the Abyss