More accurate headline: "WoTC continues trend of phoning it in by just reskinning the same stuff from other classes!"
For real, the way things are going with all the new subclasses leaves me feeling like I'm not actually playing Dungeons & Dragons. Choices matter. Specialties matter. Class distinction matters. Weaknesses matter.
If I wanted a game where every character can pick and choose what features they want, I'd play one of the many games produced by White Wolf. 🙄
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The Swarmmaster is definitely the most exciting if not a little under-tuned. The RP/Character Trope potential is insane with this archetype:
Crazy Cat Lady, Doctor Bees/Bee Keeper, Disney Princess whose fed up with being saved, that old guy who goes to the park to feed the ducks/pigeons, the Rat King, ect.
They really have to allow us choose the type of damage the swarm does though. It should be anything from Slashing to Poison to even Lightning or Fire (in case we want to flavor our swarm like a school of eels or a swarm of fireflies).
After how hype Twilight Domain and Circle of Wildfire were, I'm distinctly let down by this one. None of these have any real thematic connection to their base class; the Revived especially is just...why is this a rogue? What about being a revenant is especially rogue-y, Critical Role connotations aside? Why would a rogue specifically, but not anybody else, be able to do these things? This feels more like a justification for a sorcerer than something a rogue discovers. The ranger gets to cover people in bees, which is at least memishly amusing, but a lot of the rest of it is very clearly first pass. The fighter at least feels like a fighter, but also isn't this basically just an Eldritch Knight on growth hormones?
Man. I'm not nearly as excited for these ones as I was for the last couple.
I was a bit uncertain of the Rogue subclass...but then I started thinking about the roleplay potential, and I sort of like it.
You know that meme where the paladin has a fatal wound, but instead of dying, they just say:
"I'm not done."
I see the rogue as something like that...a revenant who has come back from death to fulfill a purpose, with bits of that past life seeping through.
But they're more of a withered shadow of who they might have been...and while not quite undead, they are very much not living anymore.
I see their "Bolts of the Grave" feature as being the equivalent of a necrotic Divine Smite, or a roguish Inflict Wounds...and since it is used after Cunning Action, you technically can Attack afterwards.
And since "rogue" technically can refer to an outcast.. well, being a zombie is about as far from normal as possible.
It's not a perfect fit for a rogue...but then again, rogue has the best framework for experimental skills like these.
It is also a convenient way to pay tribute to past characters from other campaigns who might have perished...I've had several characters "die" before, and it'd be amusing if this rogue "remembered" being them.
Regarding Bolts from the Grave, does it use your action to make the ranged spell attack?
I don't think so, is just says: "Immediately after you use your Cunning Action, you can make a ranged spell attack against a creature within 30 feet of you, provided you haven’t used your Sneak Attack this turn."
It's a mess. What is the damage roll that I am adding my dex modifier to? 1d4? 1d6? 1d8?
Also, let's try to play out a round of combat using it. Let's say a monster runs to the rogue to make a melee attack. Now it's the rogue's turn. Well you can't start with a cunning action disengage or else you'll be making your ranged spell attack at disadvantage. So maybe you use your action to disengage to avoid the OA, then move away, then... cunning action hide? But then you immediately fire a ranged spell attack, revealing your position. I like that it is powerful, but you are trading a lot away in exchange for using it. Maybe that's the intention.
I'm assuming it's a really awkward and nonsensical way of saying "you can use your Cunning Action to fire a bolt of necrotic energy at one target within thirty feet. The damage is equivalent to your Sneak Attack damage plus your Dexterity modifier. You cannot do this and use your normal Sneak Attack in the same turn."
Also? Have yet to figure out why the thing is a rogue. Rogues aren't known for having the fortitude, willpower, and drive to say "I'm not finished" the way a paladin, cleric, or even a fighter might. This feels more like it should be a new racial option, or possibly a feat chain. There is no reason this should be restricted to rogues. It doesn't feel good. Does not feel rogue-y in the slightest. I am super disappoint, I was real hopeful that my favorite class would get something awesome, but first warlocks got that soggy mess of a Tentacle ****** Patron and now rogues get this heap of nonsense. My bois getting the shaft here, Wizards -_-
I know this defeats the purpose of filling in the needed Fighter/Ranger/Rogue subclasses to round us out, but basically none of these feel like they belong to their classes.
Rune Knight is a cool idea for a Fighter, and one I really like the idea of, but the whole, "become a Giant" thing feels like it's own subclass that should go to the Barbarian on Rage uses. Otherwise, it's probably my favorite of the bunch. Bob the Janitor deciding one day that he's going to drop the mop and pick up a spear, I can buy. Bob the Janitor liking his new life as a Fighter, and wanting to delve into the arts of rune smithing? Sure thing. Bob the Janitor growing twice as large because he learned how to wield a spear and draw some minor magical markings on the shaft? You lost me. Again, seems more like a shamanic warrior type thing, which screams Barbarian to me.
Swarmkeeper is straight up a Druid subclass slapped onto Ranger. I think the reason is pretty self evident.
Revived is a bunch of Racial features on steroids flavored to fit the Rogue's kit in place of an actual subclass. Definitely an oddball inclusion, and I feel people are going to be very divided about it's inclusion. To me, it feels like a flavor fail overall, but I can at least appreciate wanting to explore new grounds for the Rogue class, and have it mess with the concept of death in a way that isn't just "Necromancer with Sneak Attacks" (because frankly, that's already something you can do with multiclassing).
"It's a mess. What is the damage roll that I am adding my dex modifier to? 1d4? 1d6? 1d8?"
^ It is just a pure Sneak Attack damage roll - there aren't any additional dice in place of a weapon.
Agree it gels oddly with most Cunning Actions, and - while it is effectively a bonus action attack to combine with a standard attack action - it certainly won't supplant weapon attacks in many situation (such as your example). If anything, the biggest danger of it is that it could be OP with Sharpshooter; Cunning Action > Bolts from the Grave (full accuracy) > Sharpshooter attack at penalty after safely landing Sneak Attack, removing the risk element.
Overall though, I am absolutely smitten with all three!
Love the flexibility of Rune Knight, though in practice Haug (resistance for 1 minute) and Stein (unlimited darkvision) is just an irresistible combination for humans & any other race without darkvision. The whole subclass steps on the toes of the barbarian, but with intelligence as a focus & a fun theme - I'm in favour.
Mechanically and thematically I like the Swarmkeeper, and if you could just drop into a campaign as a level 11 character I think it would be a whole lot of fun! Are the first 10 levels sufficiently a departure from the lacklustre core ranger... not so sure. I think just having a ranger archetype - besides beastmaster - actually have a strong theme is in itself a great asset though, and does excite the imagination more.
The Revived is not a theme I would have conceived of for the rogue, but I adore it; everything from the skill focus, the freaky magic & especially getting the undead ribbons at level - I'm a sucker for undead characters, but the similar ribbons in alternatives like The Undying are too far in (level 3 is early enough that the condition could always have been there just gone unnoticed). I am not a fan of unlimited teleportation features in general, but at level 17 on a rogue with 30 foot range I find it much more palatable than 60 foot on a level 6 monk. It is not a strong subclass (outside of potential Sharpshooter exploitation), but if Mastermind is viable then The Revived certainly is too & it is such a flavourful addition.
One thing I will say is, if I had to choose between the Revived or the Acrobat the Mike Mearls was concepting last year... I'd choose the Acrobat... Wizards please... just allow us to do flippity flips while slicing and dicing.
I definitely was confused with the Revived Rogue and I agree there's really not much good reason for this subclass to be on a Rogue... but that's kind of also what I like about it?
Who is this person? Why this person? Are they back to life under their own power? Are they the unwitting pawn of someone else's scheme? Are they just a bunch of ghosts hitching a ride back to the material plane? Are they some kind of afterlife hole in the shape of a person?
Honestly it feels more like a plot hook then a subclass... but it's really got me curious.
Kind of reminds me of Duane Adelier from the webcomic Unsounded though he is very much not a rogue in the slightest. Basically a Wizard equivalent in that universe.
I like the base theme for the new fighter subclass but I’m left feeling underwhelmed by its abilities. I would have liked to see different affects based on what piece of equipment the rune was placed upon, making weapons deal additional damage of an element based on the rune and making armour give resistance to an element (or damage reduction akin to heavy armour master) rather than giving you a once per rest ability on a piece of equipment. For example why would putting the a rune on a sword give you resistance to poison and advantages on saves, and why would putting a rune on armour make you attacks ensnare you foes in chains.
As it stands I could carry around 2 daggers, keep them in my pack and never use them and still get the granted abilities.
In addition the name doesn’t feel like it fits the abilities, when I first saw Rune Knight I envisioned a Witcher style character not a fighter imbuing equipment with ancient runes. It makes the subclass seem more like an unused Artificer subclass rather than a fighter.
They're all very interesting and out of the box.
You can find the UA here: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles-tags/unearthed-arcana
Honestly at first glance, i have no idea how to feel about these at all. Kinda like em, but kinda seem awkward
What's this!? A D&D class filled with features not entirely comprised of bees?
This subclass full of BEES ought to put a stop to that!
Headline: "New UA Subclasses!"
More accurate headline: "WoTC continues trend of phoning it in by just reskinning the same stuff from other classes!"
For real, the way things are going with all the new subclasses leaves me feeling like I'm not actually playing Dungeons & Dragons. Choices matter. Specialties matter. Class distinction matters. Weaknesses matter.
If I wanted a game where every character can pick and choose what features they want, I'd play one of the many games produced by White Wolf. 🙄
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You're in a mood today, Sigred.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Dude, I really am... 😓
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Oh man these are weird and I'm here for it.
The Swarmmaster is definitely the most exciting if not a little under-tuned. The RP/Character Trope potential is insane with this archetype:
Crazy Cat Lady, Doctor Bees/Bee Keeper, Disney Princess whose fed up with being saved, that old guy who goes to the park to feed the ducks/pigeons, the Rat King, ect.
They really have to allow us choose the type of damage the swarm does though. It should be anything from Slashing to Poison to even Lightning or Fire (in case we want to flavor our swarm like a school of eels or a swarm of fireflies).
So...yeah.
After how hype Twilight Domain and Circle of Wildfire were, I'm distinctly let down by this one. None of these have any real thematic connection to their base class; the Revived especially is just...why is this a rogue? What about being a revenant is especially rogue-y, Critical Role connotations aside? Why would a rogue specifically, but not anybody else, be able to do these things? This feels more like a justification for a sorcerer than something a rogue discovers. The ranger gets to cover people in bees, which is at least memishly amusing, but a lot of the rest of it is very clearly first pass. The fighter at least feels like a fighter, but also isn't this basically just an Eldritch Knight on growth hormones?
Man. I'm not nearly as excited for these ones as I was for the last couple.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I was a bit uncertain of the Rogue subclass...but then I started thinking about the roleplay potential, and I sort of like it.
You know that meme where the paladin has a fatal wound, but instead of dying, they just say:
"I'm not done."
I see the rogue as something like that...a revenant who has come back from death to fulfill a purpose, with bits of that past life seeping through.
But they're more of a withered shadow of who they might have been...and while not quite undead, they are very much not living anymore.
I see their "Bolts of the Grave" feature as being the equivalent of a necrotic Divine Smite, or a roguish Inflict Wounds...and since it is used after Cunning Action, you technically can Attack afterwards.
And since "rogue" technically can refer to an outcast.. well, being a zombie is about as far from normal as possible.
It's not a perfect fit for a rogue...but then again, rogue has the best framework for experimental skills like these.
It is also a convenient way to pay tribute to past characters from other campaigns who might have perished...I've had several characters "die" before, and it'd be amusing if this rogue "remembered" being them.
Regarding Bolts from the Grave, does it use your action to make the ranged spell attack?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don't think so, is just says: "Immediately after you use your Cunning Action, you can make a ranged spell attack against a creature within 30 feet of you, provided you haven’t used your Sneak Attack this turn."
It's a mess. What is the damage roll that I am adding my dex modifier to? 1d4? 1d6? 1d8?
Also, let's try to play out a round of combat using it. Let's say a monster runs to the rogue to make a melee attack. Now it's the rogue's turn. Well you can't start with a cunning action disengage or else you'll be making your ranged spell attack at disadvantage. So maybe you use your action to disengage to avoid the OA, then move away, then... cunning action hide? But then you immediately fire a ranged spell attack, revealing your position. I like that it is powerful, but you are trading a lot away in exchange for using it. Maybe that's the intention.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I'm assuming it's a really awkward and nonsensical way of saying "you can use your Cunning Action to fire a bolt of necrotic energy at one target within thirty feet. The damage is equivalent to your Sneak Attack damage plus your Dexterity modifier. You cannot do this and use your normal Sneak Attack in the same turn."
Also? Have yet to figure out why the thing is a rogue. Rogues aren't known for having the fortitude, willpower, and drive to say "I'm not finished" the way a paladin, cleric, or even a fighter might. This feels more like it should be a new racial option, or possibly a feat chain. There is no reason this should be restricted to rogues. It doesn't feel good. Does not feel rogue-y in the slightest. I am super disappoint, I was real hopeful that my favorite class would get something awesome, but first warlocks got that soggy mess of a Tentacle ****** Patron and now rogues get this heap of nonsense. My bois getting the shaft here, Wizards -_-
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I also noticed it doesn't say you have to see your target to hit it with the bolts :)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I know this defeats the purpose of filling in the needed Fighter/Ranger/Rogue subclasses to round us out, but basically none of these feel like they belong to their classes.
Rune Knight is a cool idea for a Fighter, and one I really like the idea of, but the whole, "become a Giant" thing feels like it's own subclass that should go to the Barbarian on Rage uses. Otherwise, it's probably my favorite of the bunch. Bob the Janitor deciding one day that he's going to drop the mop and pick up a spear, I can buy. Bob the Janitor liking his new life as a Fighter, and wanting to delve into the arts of rune smithing? Sure thing. Bob the Janitor growing twice as large because he learned how to wield a spear and draw some minor magical markings on the shaft? You lost me. Again, seems more like a shamanic warrior type thing, which screams Barbarian to me.
Swarmkeeper is straight up a Druid subclass slapped onto Ranger. I think the reason is pretty self evident.
Revived is a bunch of Racial features on steroids flavored to fit the Rogue's kit in place of an actual subclass. Definitely an oddball inclusion, and I feel people are going to be very divided about it's inclusion. To me, it feels like a flavor fail overall, but I can at least appreciate wanting to explore new grounds for the Rogue class, and have it mess with the concept of death in a way that isn't just "Necromancer with Sneak Attacks" (because frankly, that's already something you can do with multiclassing).
"It's a mess. What is the damage roll that I am adding my dex modifier to? 1d4? 1d6? 1d8?"
^ It is just a pure Sneak Attack damage roll - there aren't any additional dice in place of a weapon.
Agree it gels oddly with most Cunning Actions, and - while it is effectively a bonus action attack to combine with a standard attack action - it certainly won't supplant weapon attacks in many situation (such as your example). If anything, the biggest danger of it is that it could be OP with Sharpshooter; Cunning Action > Bolts from the Grave (full accuracy) > Sharpshooter attack at penalty after safely landing Sneak Attack, removing the risk element.
Overall though, I am absolutely smitten with all three!
Love the flexibility of Rune Knight, though in practice Haug (resistance for 1 minute) and Stein (unlimited darkvision) is just an irresistible combination for humans & any other race without darkvision. The whole subclass steps on the toes of the barbarian, but with intelligence as a focus & a fun theme - I'm in favour.
Mechanically and thematically I like the Swarmkeeper, and if you could just drop into a campaign as a level 11 character I think it would be a whole lot of fun! Are the first 10 levels sufficiently a departure from the lacklustre core ranger... not so sure. I think just having a ranger archetype - besides beastmaster - actually have a strong theme is in itself a great asset though, and does excite the imagination more.
The Revived is not a theme I would have conceived of for the rogue, but I adore it; everything from the skill focus, the freaky magic & especially getting the undead ribbons at level - I'm a sucker for undead characters, but the similar ribbons in alternatives like The Undying are too far in (level 3 is early enough that the condition could always have been there just gone unnoticed). I am not a fan of unlimited teleportation features in general, but at level 17 on a rogue with 30 foot range I find it much more palatable than 60 foot on a level 6 monk. It is not a strong subclass (outside of potential Sharpshooter exploitation), but if Mastermind is viable then The Revived certainly is too & it is such a flavourful addition.
One thing I will say is, if I had to choose between the Revived or the Acrobat the Mike Mearls was concepting last year... I'd choose the Acrobat... Wizards please... just allow us to do flippity flips while slicing and dicing.
Party discussing a recent disappearance of a noble they are investigating:
"I think the butler did it!"
"I think it was the maid!"
"But how can we know for sure..."
party slowly looks towards the Revived Rogue while raising their weapons
I definitely was confused with the Revived Rogue and I agree there's really not much good reason for this subclass to be on a Rogue... but that's kind of also what I like about it?
Who is this person? Why this person? Are they back to life under their own power? Are they the unwitting pawn of someone else's scheme? Are they just a bunch of ghosts hitching a ride back to the material plane? Are they some kind of afterlife hole in the shape of a person?
Honestly it feels more like a plot hook then a subclass... but it's really got me curious.
Kind of reminds me of Duane Adelier from the webcomic Unsounded though he is very much not a rogue in the slightest. Basically a Wizard equivalent in that universe.
I like the base theme for the new fighter subclass but I’m left feeling underwhelmed by its abilities. I would have liked to see different affects based on what piece of equipment the rune was placed upon, making weapons deal additional damage of an element based on the rune and making armour give resistance to an element (or damage reduction akin to heavy armour master) rather than giving you a once per rest ability on a piece of equipment. For example why would putting the a rune on a sword give you resistance to poison and advantages on saves, and why would putting a rune on armour make you attacks ensnare you foes in chains.
As it stands I could carry around 2 daggers, keep them in my pack and never use them and still get the granted abilities.
In addition the name doesn’t feel like it fits the abilities, when I first saw Rune Knight I envisioned a Witcher style character not a fighter imbuing equipment with ancient runes. It makes the subclass seem more like an unused Artificer subclass rather than a fighter.