Hi folks. I'm new to DnD, but super in to it. I'm joining an existing group, with a long running campaign. I've played a couple of one-shots to get a feel for it, and yeah - loving it.
Been working with the DM to build out a character, I'm essentially building Vimes from Discworld. Currently setting him as a fighter/rogue hybrid. Times has a complete mistrust of Magic. Won't use it, is grumpy when allies use magic on his behalf, and is furious at enemies for using it at all.
In terms of weapons the DM suggested Vimes not carry a weapon at all, other than his fists. That going in to an encounter where a proper weapon is necessary, I'd borrow one from an ally; other than that I'd have very high perception for finding weapons of opportunity... poles, iron bars, chairs, frying pans etc. basically Vimes would be all about fighting dirty.
I'm absolutely into this for the flavour, and the DM is SUPER into it, which I get. My only worry is that I feel it makes me underpowered. This is where my being new to DnD comes in. other than reading a couple of the handbooks, and 2 one shots, I'm very naive on practical experience. I 100% assume the DM knows what he's doing. But in my head, I'm going into every encounter with essentially "Vimes attacks X with a wooden broom handle. Roll 1d6 for bludgeoning damage"
Once again - I trust the DM knows what is possible and what isn't, but I think I'm just a bit worried. Any thoughts, insights or reassurance welcome!
The fondamental of your concerns will depend if the DM let you use Sneak Attack only with finesse/ranged weapon or with any weapons burrowed despite the lack of property as well as improvised weapons. Since it's the Rogue's main damage trick, if you go about in combat without it because you're using low-damage non-finesse/range weapon, you will clearly be underperforming compared than if you'd wield more effective weapons. So the concept can be fun without being subpar if the DM work with you.
You may also want to consider the feat Tavern Brawler who specialize in the use of improvised weapons and unarmed strike.
+1 to plaguescarred when it comes to potential issues and tavern brawler.
Ill just throw in the unarmed fighting style for the fighter, and I know you said no magic, but an eldritch claw tattoo would let you overcome resistance.
The easiest option I can think of is a bit of dull one but wouldn't a Way of the Open Hand Monk be the way to go? Just flavour the martial arts as rough and tumble fisty cuffs and your ki points as special attacks. You could possible replace the monk weapon proficiences with proficincy with improvised weapons as well.
If you aren't fixed on the build, I would go empty hand monk with a rogue dip and ask the DMs permission to use improvised weapons as your monk weapons. That way you can use them with dexterity instead of str and your dmg with them is always at least your martial arts die. Monk would balance itself mechanically so you wouldn't have to worry about that. And you are good to go with just your fists too. 🙂
You can always reflavor your monk too. They don't need to be the shaolin type. It can be very non-spiritual if you want.
If your DM is okay with homebrew, I actually wrote a Monk subclass specifically all about using weapons of opportunity: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/345332-way-of-the-chan). It was inspired by Jackie Chan, but could easily be reskinned for your idea.
How about City Watch or Soldier for background and Oath of Watchers Paladin? This would bring it a bit more inline with the image of Vimes from Discworld (city guard wearign a breast plate), you can flavour your divine smites as "sneak attacks" and have your spells activate on phrases common to city guards such as "Halt in the name of the law" for Hold Person, muttering a curse or prayer and making a warding sign when you see something magical for Protection form Evil and Good etc. You would still need Tavern Brawler or the Unarmed Fightign Style though.
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If your DM is okay with homebrew, I actually wrote a Monk subclass specifically all about using weapons of opportunity: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/345332-way-of-the-chan). It was inspired by Jackie Chan, but could easily be reskinned for your idea.
To add to this, there is also the amazingly written Pugilist class by Benjamin Huffman over on DMsGuild.
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Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
If your DM is okay with homebrew, I actually wrote a Monk subclass specifically all about using weapons of opportunity: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/345332-way-of-the-chan). It was inspired by Jackie Chan, but could easily be reskinned for your idea.
Oh yeah, I remember that subclass; it looks super fun.
Unfortunately, I don't think it works for a character inspired by someone like Vimes... it's great that it has so many features that take advantage of improvised weapons, but the core class monk features (running across water, catching weapons mid-air, slow fall) are either incompatible or will require a TON of reflavoring to explain what is actually being done that accomplishes the same things but doesn't look like traditional martial arts.
Tavern Brawler seems like the easiest way to handle this concept... I think Rogue also makes sense, especially since Inquisitive Rogue is very much intended to be a detective-like character. The biggest problem is that you can't sneak attack with an improvised weapon... it would really only work if the DM allows Vimes to land sneak attacks with improvised weapons. I mean... I'd allow it, and especially since its the DM themselves who is suggesting this particular build, it should work well.
That all said... especially since you're a newer player, it can be tricky to handle multiclassing. Luckily Fighter/Rogue is one of the more natural multiclass combinations to pull off (multiclassing two spellcasting classes gives a lot more homework to keep track of), but overall I don't think Figher necessarily adds much to this build. Getting access to better armor and action surge is pretty cool, but I feel like you could pull off a Vimes-inspired character perfectly naturally as just a Rogue.
In terms of weapons the DM suggested Vimes not carry a weapon at all, other than his fists. That going in to an encounter where a proper weapon is necessary, I'd borrow one from an ally; other than that I'd have very high perception for finding weapons of opportunity... poles, iron bars, chairs, frying pans etc. basically Vimes would be all about fighting dirty.
I mean, all City Watch officers are issued a sword and a truncheon (which would just be a club in 5e, but any bludgeoning weapon can be reskinned as a truncheon if your DM is cool with it). Vimes does improvise when he has to, but he is also well-documented in using crossbows and swords. Improvised weapons have their own rules in 5e, which is usually pretty punitive on most characters unless you do what others have suggested and take the Tavern Brawler feat...it would fit Vimes well.
Personally, I think a rogue or a champion fighter build is perfectly viable for Vimes, and I disagree with your DM that he shouldn't carry weapons. Sam Vimes is too street smart not to come prepared. He's a dirty fighter and a grappler and he talks his way out of fights when he can, but he's no Marquis of Fantailler - he's absolutely going to be obvious about packing, and he uses weapons when they're the right tool for the situation. A quote from the man himself on weapons, from The Fifth Elephant: "They’re so you don’t have to kill people. They’re for . . . for having. For being seen. For warning."
Hi folks. I'm new to DnD, but super in to it. I'm joining an existing group, with a long running campaign. I've played a couple of one-shots to get a feel for it, and yeah - loving it.
Been working with the DM to build out a character, I'm essentially building Vimes from Discworld. Currently setting him as a fighter/rogue hybrid. Times has a complete mistrust of Magic. Won't use it, is grumpy when allies use magic on his behalf, and is furious at enemies for using it at all.
In terms of weapons the DM suggested Vimes not carry a weapon at all, other than his fists. That going in to an encounter where a proper weapon is necessary, I'd borrow one from an ally; other than that I'd have very high perception for finding weapons of opportunity... poles, iron bars, chairs, frying pans etc. basically Vimes would be all about fighting dirty.
I'm absolutely into this for the flavour, and the DM is SUPER into it, which I get. My only worry is that I feel it makes me underpowered. This is where my being new to DnD comes in. other than reading a couple of the handbooks, and 2 one shots, I'm very naive on practical experience. I 100% assume the DM knows what he's doing. But in my head, I'm going into every encounter with essentially "Vimes attacks X with a wooden broom handle. Roll 1d6 for bludgeoning damage"
Once again - I trust the DM knows what is possible and what isn't, but I think I'm just a bit worried. Any thoughts, insights or reassurance welcome!
Hi Krisnxn! I'm the king of starting with a character concept and wanting to do something weird with it.
This sounds pretty similar to what I was playing around with a couple of times, I played around with a monk, a figher and a monk-fighter multiclass. Tavern Brawler is one option, but you can also get some cool stuff out of the fighter's list of stuff. And your DM might allow you to count improvised weapons as monk weapons. The Crusher, Slasher and Piercer feats can give you some extra oomph (especially crusher to move things around the battlefield) and the Mobile feat is pretty cool too.
I think at the end of the day it 100% comes down to the DM-- if the DM is cool to give you some extra homebrew stuff, flex the rules a little bit to keep up with the other players, then that's key. Some DMs are pretty hardline, but some of us do tons of modifying stuff so that characters can feel balanced and everyone can have fun. I'd suggest to just let him/her/they know how you're feeling now and keep open communication as you go along.
You folks are awesome! There's loads to work with here :D
The next one-shot is Jan 19th, then I'm joining their ongoing campaign 2 weeks later, so I'm going to build out Vimes so I can stretch his legs in the One Shot, and can chop and change stuff from there. Thank you all!
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Hi folks. I'm new to DnD, but super in to it. I'm joining an existing group, with a long running campaign. I've played a couple of one-shots to get a feel for it, and yeah - loving it.
Been working with the DM to build out a character, I'm essentially building Vimes from Discworld. Currently setting him as a fighter/rogue hybrid. Times has a complete mistrust of Magic. Won't use it, is grumpy when allies use magic on his behalf, and is furious at enemies for using it at all.
In terms of weapons the DM suggested Vimes not carry a weapon at all, other than his fists. That going in to an encounter where a proper weapon is necessary, I'd borrow one from an ally; other than that I'd have very high perception for finding weapons of opportunity... poles, iron bars, chairs, frying pans etc. basically Vimes would be all about fighting dirty.
I'm absolutely into this for the flavour, and the DM is SUPER into it, which I get. My only worry is that I feel it makes me underpowered. This is where my being new to DnD comes in. other than reading a couple of the handbooks, and 2 one shots, I'm very naive on practical experience. I 100% assume the DM knows what he's doing. But in my head, I'm going into every encounter with essentially "Vimes attacks X with a wooden broom handle. Roll 1d6 for bludgeoning damage"
Once again - I trust the DM knows what is possible and what isn't, but I think I'm just a bit worried. Any thoughts, insights or reassurance welcome!
The fondamental of your concerns will depend if the DM let you use Sneak Attack only with finesse/ranged weapon or with any weapons burrowed despite the lack of property as well as improvised weapons. Since it's the Rogue's main damage trick, if you go about in combat without it because you're using low-damage non-finesse/range weapon, you will clearly be underperforming compared than if you'd wield more effective weapons. So the concept can be fun without being subpar if the DM work with you.
You may also want to consider the feat Tavern Brawler who specialize in the use of improvised weapons and unarmed strike.
+1 to plaguescarred when it comes to potential issues and tavern brawler.
Ill just throw in the unarmed fighting style for the fighter, and I know you said no magic, but an eldritch claw tattoo would let you overcome resistance.
The easiest option I can think of is a bit of dull one but wouldn't a Way of the Open Hand Monk be the way to go? Just flavour the martial arts as rough and tumble fisty cuffs and your ki points as special attacks. You could possible replace the monk weapon proficiences with proficincy with improvised weapons as well.
If you aren't fixed on the build, I would go empty hand monk with a rogue dip and ask the DMs permission to use improvised weapons as your monk weapons. That way you can use them with dexterity instead of str and your dmg with them is always at least your martial arts die. Monk would balance itself mechanically so you wouldn't have to worry about that. And you are good to go with just your fists too. 🙂
You can always reflavor your monk too. They don't need to be the shaolin type. It can be very non-spiritual if you want.
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If your DM is okay with homebrew, I actually wrote a Monk subclass specifically all about using weapons of opportunity: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/345332-way-of-the-chan). It was inspired by Jackie Chan, but could easily be reskinned for your idea.
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How about City Watch or Soldier for background and Oath of Watchers Paladin? This would bring it a bit more inline with the image of Vimes from Discworld (city guard wearign a breast plate), you can flavour your divine smites as "sneak attacks" and have your spells activate on phrases common to city guards such as "Halt in the name of the law" for Hold Person, muttering a curse or prayer and making a warding sign when you see something magical for Protection form Evil and Good etc. You would still need Tavern Brawler or the Unarmed Fightign Style though.
To add to this, there is also the amazingly written Pugilist class by Benjamin Huffman over on DMsGuild.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
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Oh yeah, I remember that subclass; it looks super fun.
Unfortunately, I don't think it works for a character inspired by someone like Vimes... it's great that it has so many features that take advantage of improvised weapons, but the core class monk features (running across water, catching weapons mid-air, slow fall) are either incompatible or will require a TON of reflavoring to explain what is actually being done that accomplishes the same things but doesn't look like traditional martial arts.
Tavern Brawler seems like the easiest way to handle this concept... I think Rogue also makes sense, especially since Inquisitive Rogue is very much intended to be a detective-like character. The biggest problem is that you can't sneak attack with an improvised weapon... it would really only work if the DM allows Vimes to land sneak attacks with improvised weapons. I mean... I'd allow it, and especially since its the DM themselves who is suggesting this particular build, it should work well.
That all said... especially since you're a newer player, it can be tricky to handle multiclassing. Luckily Fighter/Rogue is one of the more natural multiclass combinations to pull off (multiclassing two spellcasting classes gives a lot more homework to keep track of), but overall I don't think Figher necessarily adds much to this build. Getting access to better armor and action surge is pretty cool, but I feel like you could pull off a Vimes-inspired character perfectly naturally as just a Rogue.
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I mean, all City Watch officers are issued a sword and a truncheon (which would just be a club in 5e, but any bludgeoning weapon can be reskinned as a truncheon if your DM is cool with it). Vimes does improvise when he has to, but he is also well-documented in using crossbows and swords. Improvised weapons have their own rules in 5e, which is usually pretty punitive on most characters unless you do what others have suggested and take the Tavern Brawler feat...it would fit Vimes well.
Personally, I think a rogue or a champion fighter build is perfectly viable for Vimes, and I disagree with your DM that he shouldn't carry weapons. Sam Vimes is too street smart not to come prepared. He's a dirty fighter and a grappler and he talks his way out of fights when he can, but he's no Marquis of Fantailler - he's absolutely going to be obvious about packing, and he uses weapons when they're the right tool for the situation. A quote from the man himself on weapons, from The Fifth Elephant: "They’re so you don’t have to kill people. They’re for . . . for having. For being seen. For warning."
Hi Krisnxn! I'm the king of starting with a character concept and wanting to do something weird with it.
This sounds pretty similar to what I was playing around with a couple of times, I played around with a monk, a figher and a monk-fighter multiclass.
Tavern Brawler is one option, but you can also get some cool stuff out of the fighter's list of stuff. And your DM might allow you to count improvised weapons as monk weapons. The Crusher, Slasher and Piercer feats can give you some extra oomph (especially crusher to move things around the battlefield) and the Mobile feat is pretty cool too.
I think at the end of the day it 100% comes down to the DM-- if the DM is cool to give you some extra homebrew stuff, flex the rules a little bit to keep up with the other players, then that's key. Some DMs are pretty hardline, but some of us do tons of modifying stuff so that characters can feel balanced and everyone can have fun. I'd suggest to just let him/her/they know how you're feeling now and keep open communication as you go along.
You folks are awesome! There's loads to work with here :D
The next one-shot is Jan 19th, then I'm joining their ongoing campaign 2 weeks later, so I'm going to build out Vimes so I can stretch his legs in the One Shot, and can chop and change stuff from there. Thank you all!