if you use a SMITE on a unarmed strike you need to make a con save, if you fail, the arm or other limb you use to attack is paralyzed until a heal(for 10 hit points)or a long rest.
Fair will depend on the DC really. If it hovers around 10 I would say that it wouldnt be too bad, but loosing a limb can potentially be quite punishing.
Can I ask the context for this? Do you have a paladin/monk multi-class where they want to smite with unarmed attacks? Or do you have someone who likes to punch people as a paladin while smiting?
I'm not certain you can smite with an unarmed strike to begin with. Unarmed strikes are not weapons, however, they are listed as "weapons" in some monster blocks. So they might be weapons. At the same time I see no reason to not consider them weapon. Improvised and Natural weapons are still weapons, so isn't improvising your natural fist as a weapon a weapon?
As for this homebrew rule, I don't see a reason for it to exist unless your players are abusing some situation. It shouldn't even be coming up unless you have someone smiting with their fists a lot. Homebrew Rules should be added to solve a problem, either a crippling weakness or an overpowered strength, that is ruining the game OR to add something in the campaign that will be happening a lot and thus enhance play. So at the current moment: no, I don't think it's fair.
I'm not certain you can smite with an unarmed strike to begin with. Unarmed strikes are not weapons
I looked around and it looks like there was a Crawford tweet from a while back that stated its not possible, also there was a StackRPG question stating why it wasnt either. So this part is correct RAW.
Crawford's tweets are not official anything, and in this case he's flat-out wrong. Divine Smite does not require a melee weapon. Improved Divine Smite does, but plain old Divine Smite only requires a melee weapon attack, which unarmed strikes most definitely are. One only has to read the feature description to confirm this.
Divine Smite does not require a melee weapon. Improved Divine Smite does, but plain old Divine Smite only requires a melee weapon attack, which unarmed strikes most definitely are. One only has to read the feature description to confirm this.
I wasn’t trying to punish them, I know it sounds like it though
No, you thought they couldn’t do it at all and were trying to give them something. It only seems like “punishment” from the perspective of already knowing that they could do it in the first place.
I wasn’t trying to punish them, I know it sounds like it though
No, you thought they couldn’t do it at all and were trying to give them something. It only seems like “punishment” from the perspective of already knowing that they could do it in the first place.
I’m not good at what is or isn’t balance or punishment for the players, I’m a newer DM so yeah.
I didn't realize you were coming from the position of thinking it wasn't already perfectly legal by RAW. Since it is allowed, I was thinking you didn't like the rule and wanted to implement some downside to it. Sorry for any confusion!
Its a good start by asking here for sure. In this case, because the rule is a bit vague and might be open to interpretation, you need (and I need) to be corrected.
So in this case, best advise is to just let them do it :)
I didn't realize you were coming from the position of thinking it wasn't already perfectly legal by RAW. Since it is allowed, I was thinking you didn't like the rule and wanted to implement some downside to it. Sorry for any confusion!
It was another one of those “weapon attack”/“attack with a weapon” confusions most likely.
I didn't realize you were coming from the position of thinking it wasn't already perfectly legal by RAW. Since it is allowed, I was thinking you didn't like the rule and wanted to implement some downside to it. Sorry for any confusion!
I wasn’t trying to punish them, I know it sounds like it though
No, you thought they couldn’t do it at all and were trying to give them something. It only seems like “punishment” from the perspective of already knowing that they could do it in the first place.
I’m not good at what is or isn’t balance or punishment for the players, I’m a newer DM so yeah.
The only difference between a new DM and an experienced one is how many chances one has had to practice and how many opportunities one has had to learn. You know what the most effective form of education unfortunately happens to be? Making mistakes. Let’s just say I have learned a lot over the years, and I continue to “give myself opportunities to learn” almost every session. I just learn fewer things every session, and the things I do learn are generally smaller now is all.
a small house rule, is it fair for players?
if you use a SMITE on a unarmed strike you need to make a con save, if you fail, the arm or other limb you use to attack is paralyzed until a heal(for 10 hit points)or a long rest.
Fair will depend on the DC really. If it hovers around 10 I would say that it wouldnt be too bad, but loosing a limb can potentially be quite punishing.
Can I ask the context for this? Do you have a paladin/monk multi-class where they want to smite with unarmed attacks? Or do you have someone who likes to punch people as a paladin while smiting?
I'm not certain you can smite with an unarmed strike to begin with. Unarmed strikes are not weapons, however, they are listed as "weapons" in some monster blocks. So they might be weapons. At the same time I see no reason to not consider them weapon. Improvised and Natural weapons are still weapons, so isn't improvising your natural fist as a weapon a weapon?
As for this homebrew rule, I don't see a reason for it to exist unless your players are abusing some situation. It shouldn't even be coming up unless you have someone smiting with their fists a lot. Homebrew Rules should be added to solve a problem, either a crippling weakness or an overpowered strength, that is ruining the game OR to add something in the campaign that will be happening a lot and thus enhance play. So at the current moment: no, I don't think it's fair.
I looked around and it looks like there was a Crawford tweet from a while back that stated its not possible, also there was a StackRPG question stating why it wasnt either. So this part is correct RAW.
I was honestly just curious if that rule was fair.
I don’t think it’s fair. I don’t see any reason to punish a paladin for punching.
As to the other responses, Divine Smite requires a melee weapon attack, not a melee weapon. Unarmed strikes are 100% fair game.
Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks... But:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/02/12/does-divine-smite-works-with-unarmed-attacks-and-or-natural-weapons/
Edited cause i messed up on mobile
Crawford's tweets are not official anything, and in this case he's flat-out wrong. Divine Smite does not require a melee weapon. Improved Divine Smite does, but plain old Divine Smite only requires a melee weapon attack, which unarmed strikes most definitely are. One only has to read the feature description to confirm this.
Correct.
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Thats what I get for not looking further down the links list. He contradicts himself prior to the above tweet.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/04/25/divine-smite-is-for-melee-weapon-attacks-so-is-it-ok-for-my-monkpaladin-to-use-with-unarmed-strikes/
So I take it back. My bad.
Oh ok thanks
I wasn’t trying to punish them, I know it sounds like it though
No, you thought they couldn’t do it at all and were trying to give them something. It only seems like “punishment” from the perspective of already knowing that they could do it in the first place.
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I’m not good at what is or isn’t balance or punishment for the players, I’m a newer DM so yeah.
I didn't realize you were coming from the position of thinking it wasn't already perfectly legal by RAW. Since it is allowed, I was thinking you didn't like the rule and wanted to implement some downside to it. Sorry for any confusion!
Its a good start by asking here for sure. In this case, because the rule is a bit vague and might be open to interpretation, you need (and I need) to be corrected.
So in this case, best advise is to just let them do it :)
It was another one of those “weapon attack”/“attack with a weapon” confusions most likely.
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It’s all good man
The only difference between a new DM and an experienced one is how many chances one has had to practice and how many opportunities one has had to learn. You know what the most effective form of education unfortunately happens to be? Making mistakes. Let’s just say I have learned a lot over the years, and I continue to “give myself opportunities to learn” almost every session. I just learn fewer things every session, and the things I do learn are generally smaller now is all.
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