Our group recently encountered a cube of force in a 5th edition premade adventure. One thing I've been trying to determine: when the "Nothing can pass through the barrier" side is used, does that mean incorporeal "magical energy" is blocked as well? In other words, would a spell caster who is inside the force field be able to cast a spell that starts from a targeted point outside the cube? In earlier editions of D&D (1e and 2e) it explicitly lists spells that cannot be "cast into or out of the cube", but in 5e it is not so clear to me. Does it block _all_ spells "out of" the cube. And are there any 5e rules to back that up? There is some argument that these types of force fields create "cover" and are therefore subject to blocking "magical energy" by the "complete cover" and targeting/line-of-sight rules in the PHB. But others might argue that the "magical energy" could be sourced from outside the cube (from a clerical prayer or the druid's power of nature.) Maybe it depends on the spells. In my case players would be using Fire bolt and Fireball type spells that explode at a targeted point within range. Thank you in advance.
I usually interpret side 5 to include blocking of all effects of sides 1-4 plus anything else I can think of except "walls/floors/ceiling at your discretion."
What exactly "Spell effects can't pass through the barrier" means is up to the DM but I usually interpret it to mean that spells can't be cast through the barrier and the effects of spells are prevented from crossing the barrier.
So the cube would block the effects of cloud kill, meteor swarm, fireball, healing word and any other spell where the caster is on one side of the barrier and the effect of the spell would be on the other.
What exactly "Spell effects can't pass through the barrier" means is up to the DM but I usually interpret it to mean that spells can't be cast through the barrier and the effects of spells are prevented from crossing the barrier.
Indeed I'm finding this to be a common interpretation and it may well be the general consensus. Spell effect _could_ be interpreted as an "area of effect" that was already in effect before the barrier was even invoked. So if one is moving with the barrier surrounding and he/she moves through an area of effect, the character won't be harmed by it.
But our players were finding ourselves thinking of the barrier as blocking physical corporal effects (the fire or ice from a spell) but not blocking the incorporeal invisible magical energy of the spell itself. But it makes for a rather powerful item if not limited in such a way. We'll just have to make a ruling. Thanks so much.
Here's a related cube of force question. If you activate the cube of force, and then throw it, does the barrier move with the cube or does it stay with you until you press it again or it's duration runs out?
Here's a related cube of force question. If you activate the cube of force, and then throw it, does the barrier move with the cube or does it stay with you until you press it again or it's duration runs out?
It stays with you as it centered on you and moves with you.
Cube of Force: The barrier is centered on you, moves with you
The only time spells are mentioned at all is side 4. The Cube of Force is Rare. It can be acquired at level 5 and up. It's very powerful for an item you can get at so low a level. I'm not really sure why anyone would think that side 5 would block spells when it states clearly that walls can pass through.
When using side 4 there are a bunch of problems that could come up and there will be many questions. It's pretty much certain that you could not cast spells that do damage from inside, and that spells from outside cannot harm you, but indirect and purely non magical effects can be created with a spell. A character with a Cube could walk right through a Wall of Fire, but if your enemy set a great big fire somehow, the character would take damage. Being inside of a building that was on fire the wooden beams and falling debris would be blocked, but the fire would still roast you, the smoke could still choke you to death, and so on.
Telekinesis could not pass through the barrier, but could wrap around the whole Cube and lift it. Wind, magical or not, could push you. It will stop magical lightning, but not non-magical. You can't cast spells out of it, but there's odd things like the Foresight spell. I've been in a discussion about that one. Foresight is completely intangible, most scrying creates a tiny, nearly invisible thing that is used as a point of reference, Foresight does not. So that passes right through.
I could go on and on, but there isn't much point. The Rules & Game Mechanics forum isn't the place for that.
Our group recently encountered a cube of force in a 5th edition premade adventure. One thing I've been trying to determine: when the "Nothing can pass through the barrier" side is used, does that mean incorporeal "magical energy" is blocked as well? In other words, would a spell caster who is inside the force field be able to cast a spell that starts from a targeted point outside the cube? In earlier editions of D&D (1e and 2e) it explicitly lists spells that cannot be "cast into or out of the cube", but in 5e it is not so clear to me. Does it block _all_ spells "out of" the cube. And are there any 5e rules to back that up? There is some argument that these types of force fields create "cover" and are therefore subject to blocking "magical energy" by the "complete cover" and targeting/line-of-sight rules in the PHB. But others might argue that the "magical energy" could be sourced from outside the cube (from a clerical prayer or the druid's power of nature.) Maybe it depends on the spells. In my case players would be using Fire bolt and Fireball type spells that explode at a targeted point within range. Thank you in advance.
This could become a looooong discussion I'm afraid, there was quite a long one a little while ago concerning these issues and the "wall of Force" spell. I'm not sure that one ever got to a consensus but it did get fairly heated at times. =)
I'd say that the "Nothing" of the 5th face is meant to mean exactly "Nothing" and thus no spells in or out. But ultimately it will come down to what each DM thinks.
I could go on and on, but there isn't much point. The Rules & Game Mechanics forum isn't the place for that.
Firstly, I'm not saying that you are wrong on any specific part but I do think that you might be going a bit too far into simulation mode here, just as you did in the concentration thread, and the game isn't meant to be a simulation.
Secondly, I can't see a better place for the discussion than this forum tbh.
I could go on and on, but there isn't much point. The Rules & Game Mechanics forum isn't the place for that.
Firstly, I'm not saying that you are wrong on any specific part but I do think that you might be going a bit too far into simulation mode here, just as you did in the concentration thread, and the game isn't meant to be a simulation.
Secondly, I can't see a better place for the discussion than this forum tbh.
Oh really?
I am a Dungeon Master, and I am offering opinions, so the Dungeon Master's Only forum would seem apt. I could offer my advice on Tips & Tactics... In general I avoid the General forum if possible, but it could go there. That's about all I see. It is here on the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, so I guess it can stay there.
On Topic: The Cube Of Force seems overly powerful, and I would suggest not handing one out before about 11th level. That's my tip, and my tactics for using one would be to put it around a Fighter and let them tank with it.
I concur with Thezzaruz's interpretation. I would read it as side 5 blocks at the very least anything mentioned in sides 1-4. But you get into interesting territory when someone casts wall of force. Does that count as a wall or a spell? Ultimately up to the DM to decide, which I think was the intention here and why D&D is fun.
as a DM i would treat this similar to how invisibility acts with magic focus on the descriptors spells that require you to see the creature as a target (charm person) can not affect a creature that is invisible or unseen especially since spells affect the barrier and it has a list of provided charge drain effects
key descriptor here is pass through the barrier (think of it like a window you cant physically pass through the window but can see through a window) so spells originate in the world and travel (firebolt, fireball disintegrate, magic missle) can not pas through the barrier created
spells that are a point in space that the caster can see bypass this (charm monster, synaptic static) etc this works both ways npc spellcasters and PC spellcasters are subject this interpretation
unless it prevents magic within the barrier period these rules would still apply (antimagic field is really the only notable example)
though i would admit that how the 5th option is worded means that even light would not be able to pass through the barrier
Here's a related cube of force question. If you activate the cube of force, and then throw it, does the barrier move with the cube or does it stay with you until you press it again or it's duration runs out?
It stays with you as it centered on you and moves with you.
Cube of Force: The barrier is centered on you, moves with you
If you pressed side 2 or 5 you can only throw it 5 feet, after which the cube bounces back, but oddly you can throw it out of its own force walls otherwise.
I am sure that the devs intended this to mean "The barrier is centred on the cube and moves with it" but you are entirely correct in the RAW wording.
If I am standing next to a party member and activate Cube of Force can I include that party member inside the cube with me or are they pushed away as the cube forms?
The description states that the barrier springs into existence in a cube around you. It doesn't state that the barrier starts from the cube and moves outward to reach its final destination.
Considering the lack of specification, I might rule that the barrier forms at it's specific distance. This means that anything completely inside the cube when it forms is inside after activation. If something is to large to fit, I would rule it to be pushed to the outside of the cube.
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Our group recently encountered a cube of force in a 5th edition premade adventure. One thing I've been trying to determine: when the "Nothing can pass through the barrier" side is used, does that mean incorporeal "magical energy" is blocked as well? In other words, would a spell caster who is inside the force field be able to cast a spell that starts from a targeted point outside the cube? In earlier editions of D&D (1e and 2e) it explicitly lists spells that cannot be "cast into or out of the cube", but in 5e it is not so clear to me. Does it block _all_ spells "out of" the cube. And are there any 5e rules to back that up? There is some argument that these types of force fields create "cover" and are therefore subject to blocking "magical energy" by the "complete cover" and targeting/line-of-sight rules in the PHB. But others might argue that the "magical energy" could be sourced from outside the cube (from a clerical prayer or the druid's power of nature.) Maybe it depends on the spells. In my case players would be using Fire bolt and Fireball type spells that explode at a targeted point within range. Thank you in advance.
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
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I usually interpret side 5 to include blocking of all effects of sides 1-4 plus anything else I can think of except "walls/floors/ceiling at your discretion."
What exactly "Spell effects can't pass through the barrier" means is up to the DM but I usually interpret it to mean that spells can't be cast through the barrier and the effects of spells are prevented from crossing the barrier.
So the cube would block the effects of cloud kill, meteor swarm, fireball, healing word and any other spell where the caster is on one side of the barrier and the effect of the spell would be on the other.
Indeed I'm finding this to be a common interpretation and it may well be the general consensus. Spell effect _could_ be interpreted as an "area of effect" that was already in effect before the barrier was even invoked. So if one is moving with the barrier surrounding and he/she moves through an area of effect, the character won't be harmed by it.
But our players were finding ourselves thinking of the barrier as blocking physical corporal effects (the fire or ice from a spell) but not blocking the incorporeal invisible magical energy of the spell itself. But it makes for a rather powerful item if not limited in such a way. We'll just have to make a ruling. Thanks so much.
Here's a related cube of force question. If you activate the cube of force, and then throw it, does the barrier move with the cube or does it stay with you until you press it again or it's duration runs out?
It stays with you as it centered on you and moves with you.
Cube of Force: The barrier is centered on you, moves with you
The only time spells are mentioned at all is side 4. The Cube of Force is Rare. It can be acquired at level 5 and up. It's very powerful for an item you can get at so low a level. I'm not really sure why anyone would think that side 5 would block spells when it states clearly that walls can pass through.
When using side 4 there are a bunch of problems that could come up and there will be many questions. It's pretty much certain that you could not cast spells that do damage from inside, and that spells from outside cannot harm you, but indirect and purely non magical effects can be created with a spell. A character with a Cube could walk right through a Wall of Fire, but if your enemy set a great big fire somehow, the character would take damage. Being inside of a building that was on fire the wooden beams and falling debris would be blocked, but the fire would still roast you, the smoke could still choke you to death, and so on.
Telekinesis could not pass through the barrier, but could wrap around the whole Cube and lift it. Wind, magical or not, could push you. It will stop magical lightning, but not non-magical. You can't cast spells out of it, but there's odd things like the Foresight spell. I've been in a discussion about that one. Foresight is completely intangible, most scrying creates a tiny, nearly invisible thing that is used as a point of reference, Foresight does not. So that passes right through.
I could go on and on, but there isn't much point. The Rules & Game Mechanics forum isn't the place for that.
<Insert clever signature here>
This could become a looooong discussion I'm afraid, there was quite a long one a little while ago concerning these issues and the "wall of Force" spell. I'm not sure that one ever got to a consensus but it did get fairly heated at times. =)
I'd say that the "Nothing" of the 5th face is meant to mean exactly "Nothing" and thus no spells in or out. But ultimately it will come down to what each DM thinks.
Firstly, I'm not saying that you are wrong on any specific part but I do think that you might be going a bit too far into simulation mode here, just as you did in the concentration thread, and the game isn't meant to be a simulation.
Secondly, I can't see a better place for the discussion than this forum tbh.
Oh really?
I am a Dungeon Master, and I am offering opinions, so the Dungeon Master's Only forum would seem apt. I could offer my advice on Tips & Tactics... In general I avoid the General forum if possible, but it could go there. That's about all I see. It is here on the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, so I guess it can stay there.
On Topic: The Cube Of Force seems overly powerful, and I would suggest not handing one out before about 11th level. That's my tip, and my tactics for using one would be to put it around a Fighter and let them tank with it.
<Insert clever signature here>
I concur with Thezzaruz's interpretation. I would read it as side 5 blocks at the very least anything mentioned in sides 1-4. But you get into interesting territory when someone casts wall of force. Does that count as a wall or a spell? Ultimately up to the DM to decide, which I think was the intention here and why D&D is fun.
as a DM i would treat this similar to how invisibility acts with magic focus on the descriptors
spells that require you to see the creature as a target (charm person) can not affect a creature that is invisible or unseen
especially since spells affect the barrier and it has a list of provided charge drain effects
key descriptor here is pass through the barrier (think of it like a window you cant physically pass through the window but can see through a window)
so spells originate in the world and travel (firebolt, fireball disintegrate, magic missle) can not pas through the barrier created
spells that are a point in space that the caster can see bypass this (charm monster, synaptic static) etc
this works both ways npc spellcasters and PC spellcasters are subject this interpretation
unless it prevents magic within the barrier period these rules would still apply (antimagic field is really the only notable example)
though i would admit that how the 5th option is worded means that even light would not be able to pass through the barrier
If you pressed side 2 or 5 you can only throw it 5 feet, after which the cube bounces back, but oddly you can throw it out of its own force walls otherwise.
I am sure that the devs intended this to mean "The barrier is centred on the cube and moves with it" but you are entirely correct in the RAW wording.
If I am standing next to a party member and activate Cube of Force can I include that party member inside the cube with me or are they pushed away as the cube forms?
The description states that the barrier springs into existence in a cube around you. It doesn't state that the barrier starts from the cube and moves outward to reach its final destination.
Considering the lack of specification, I might rule that the barrier forms at it's specific distance. This means that anything completely inside the cube when it forms is inside after activation. If something is to large to fit, I would rule it to be pushed to the outside of the cube.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad