Currently playing in a homebrew 5e game. The GM has tweaked things like healing and damage to make it a tougher slog. My character is a soon to be level 2 warlock, but I was planning ahead for level 3 and talking to said GM about taking pact of the chain and an imp familiar.
I'd chosen the fiend as my patron and the GM chose a specific demon that I was indebted to. Now however, he's telling me that I can't have an imp familiar because demon patron, demon familiar, so I'd have to take a quasit because an imp is a devil.
Now, as I understand pact of the chain, I'm essentially summoning a spirit then choosing the form it takes. That applies to the regular find familiar roster AND the enhanced options granted by PotC. Essentially, I can summon a demon, but have it appear as an owl or a raven or a devil. The spirit remains true to to its origins, I'm just deciding on the physical host for that spirit.
Now it's not a big deal, but it has taken the wind out of my sails regarding the character as the spider/raven/ rat alternative forms suit him better than a bat, a centipede..... and a frog 😒
I've pretty much given up on trying to get my way on the issue, but it feels like an unnecessary limitation on PotC, particularly given the relative strengths of the Tome and Blade pacts.
You know what, I wouldn't even question it usually on that basis, but his explanation for not allowing the imp familiar sounds like he isn't understanding the difference between summoning an actual imp and a fiendish spirit in an imp shaped container.
You also stated it’s a Homebrew campaign. Homebrew life comes with Homebrew problems. Course, this was an unexpected to come up in session 0 thing. Explain your concerns and such and see if you can work a compromise, or failing that he’ll let you switch class so that your sails haven’t been de-winded.
Here’s my argument. You’re summoning a slave when you cast Find Familiar. Of course your patron would love to have you summon one of his opponents as your slave!
RAW you are correct. You summon a celestial, fiend or fey spirit that takes the form of the creature you desire. There is no requirement for consistency. A Fey warlock doesn't have have to summon a sprite or pseudo dragon form. In that case a celestial warlock might find themselves out of luck with such a restrictive rule. What would a hexblade chain pact warlock summon?
Anyway, fiend covers both devils and demons. I would also think that a demon would relish the thought of being able to order around a devil shaped minion so even from a role playing point of view there is no real inconsistency.
Anyway, ultimately it is up to your DM to decide but RAW there is no reason that your chain pact familiar couldn't be any of the available options.
A compromise could just be you or the DM homebrew a quasit that can shapeshift into a spider/rat/raven. Or the DM can just create a new demon version of the imp.
The simplest solution is as many have written before me, you can summon a demon/fiend and it just appears as an imp.
Well my lastest suggestion was just that: quasit with the imp's polymorph set, so we'll see.
As for using the imp form, I've already discussed the wording with him and that fact that you're summoning a demonic spirit, pact of the chain just gives you a larger menu of forms from which to choose. His reading of it is if your pact is with a demon, you get a demon familiar. I also couldn't have a sprite for example.
It feels like an unnecessary nerf of what's already the "weakest" of the three pacts, at least from a combat POV.
Quasit's fine if I'm stuck with it. Just wasn't the flavour I was going for.
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Currently playing in a homebrew 5e game. The GM has tweaked things like healing and damage to make it a tougher slog. My character is a soon to be level 2 warlock, but I was planning ahead for level 3 and talking to said GM about taking pact of the chain and an imp familiar.
I'd chosen the fiend as my patron and the GM chose a specific demon that I was indebted to. Now however, he's telling me that I can't have an imp familiar because demon patron, demon familiar, so I'd have to take a quasit because an imp is a devil.
Now, as I understand pact of the chain, I'm essentially summoning a spirit then choosing the form it takes. That applies to the regular find familiar roster AND the enhanced options granted by PotC. Essentially, I can summon a demon, but have it appear as an owl or a raven or a devil. The spirit remains true to to its origins, I'm just deciding on the physical host for that spirit.
Now it's not a big deal, but it has taken the wind out of my sails regarding the character as the spider/raven/ rat alternative forms suit him better than a bat, a centipede..... and a frog 😒
I've pretty much given up on trying to get my way on the issue, but it feels like an unnecessary limitation on PotC, particularly given the relative strengths of the Tome and Blade pacts.
Am I correct in my interpretation?
You are correct RAW, however they are the DM.🤷♂️
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You know what, I wouldn't even question it usually on that basis, but his explanation for not allowing the imp familiar sounds like he isn't understanding the difference between summoning an actual imp and a fiendish spirit in an imp shaped container.
^ this.
You also stated it’s a Homebrew campaign. Homebrew life comes with Homebrew problems. Course, this was an unexpected to come up in session 0 thing. Explain your concerns and such and see if you can work a compromise, or failing that he’ll let you switch class so that your sails haven’t been de-winded.
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Here’s my argument. You’re summoning a slave when you cast Find Familiar. Of course your patron would love to have you summon one of his opponents as your slave!
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RAW you are correct. You summon a celestial, fiend or fey spirit that takes the form of the creature you desire. There is no requirement for consistency. A Fey warlock doesn't have have to summon a sprite or pseudo dragon form. In that case a celestial warlock might find themselves out of luck with such a restrictive rule. What would a hexblade chain pact warlock summon?
Anyway, fiend covers both devils and demons. I would also think that a demon would relish the thought of being able to order around a devil shaped minion so even from a role playing point of view there is no real inconsistency.
Anyway, ultimately it is up to your DM to decide but RAW there is no reason that your chain pact familiar couldn't be any of the available options.
A compromise could just be you or the DM homebrew a quasit that can shapeshift into a spider/rat/raven. Or the DM can just create a new demon version of the imp.
The simplest solution is as many have written before me, you can summon a demon/fiend and it just appears as an imp.
Well my lastest suggestion was just that: quasit with the imp's polymorph set, so we'll see.
As for using the imp form, I've already discussed the wording with him and that fact that you're summoning a demonic spirit, pact of the chain just gives you a larger menu of forms from which to choose. His reading of it is if your pact is with a demon, you get a demon familiar. I also couldn't have a sprite for example.
It feels like an unnecessary nerf of what's already the "weakest" of the three pacts, at least from a combat POV.
Quasit's fine if I'm stuck with it. Just wasn't the flavour I was going for.