So bit of background I am playing a support bard who likes flashy spells so naturally picked hypnotic pattern. My dm was ok with it at first but is getting tired of me immobilizing large groups of enemies. First use I got 7 out of 9 bat swarms with it. Last session we fought some giant spiders and some ettercaps which the dm described as ordering the spiders about. I hypnotic patterned the ettercaps and got them all so as long I maintained concentration they were out of the fight. Dm realized giant spiders aren't smart enough to shake the ettercaps out of it so on one of the ettercaps turns it shouted something that caused the spiders to go and wake them all up.
Technically the spell doesn't say affected creatures cant talk and I applaud his quick thinking so I am not bothered it was countered I was just wondering what everyone thought of it.
It still wasted all the spiders' turns (it takes an action to wake someone).
Hypnotic Pattern is a very good spell (no actions allowed, no followup saves, good area of effect for a level 3 debuff), with some reasonable restrictions (can't affect enemies immune to charm, autobreak on damage, action to wake). It's very common for DMs to have to find ways around how good it is so their mobs don't consistently get wiped out.
It’s a great spell, but it’s a 3rd level spell too. Compare Hypnotic Pattern to Fireball. Fireball would have also completely destroyed those swarms of bats easily if you would have cast it instead. But you have a very small number of 3rd level spell slots per long rest too, that’s the right solution, your DM shouldn’t let you take a long rest after every combat encounter.
I'll point out for completion's sake that incapacitated doesn't mention that the creature can't speak. Compare with paralyzed and unconscious, for example, which do.
They're also Charmed as well as incapacitated, but I looked at the charmed status description and it doesn't say that the charmed creature cannot call for help if it is able to do so. Calling for help is not a hostile action toward the caster and couple could be interpreted as purely self-preservation without any thought about having ill intent toward the caster at the moment. I don't think speaking is considered an action or reaction. So, it all follows RAW if I'm understanding RAW correctly.
Outside of RAW consideration, I'm okay with it having caveats when affecting creatures of higher intelligence or creatures of pack mentality (where the creatures would naturally, actively attempt to help packmates communicating distress, unlike bats). That's just my thought on it, though.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
To me it feels like a cheap trick to get out of a situation the DM didn't properly plan for after having extensive experience with you utilizing this spell.
What reason did the ettercap have to yell? Why was the yell loud enough to wake up the other ettercaps?
In reading over the spell, it does specifically state that another creature can use their action to shake the target out of its stupor. Personally, I think this excludes noises from ending the effect, but I'm probably just being pedantic about it.
To me it feels like a cheap trick to get out of a situation the DM didn't properly plan for after having extensive experience with you utilizing this spell.
What reason did the ettercap have to yell? Why was the yell loud enough to wake up the other ettercaps?
In reading over the spell, it does specifically state that another creature can use their action to shake the target out of its stupor. Personally, I think this excludes noises from ending the effect, but I'm probably just being pedantic about it.
Ah the shouting didnt wake the other ettercaps it just shouted something on its turn then on the giant spiders next turn they went and nudged the ettercaps awake. So it didnt last the full minute but did waste multiple turns.
I like this solution, it makes Hypnotic Pattern work in a very "A Clockwork Orange" way, where people are still conscious, but susceptible to persuasion ("charmed"), and just can't look away. Screaming for help makes sense too in this interpretation.
I haven't had any issue with this spell yet, but I kinda want to play it this way anyway now. I think it's great.
I like this solution, it makes Hypnotic Pattern work in a very "A Clockwork Orange" way, where people are still conscious, but susceptible to persuasion ("charmed"), and just can't look away. Screaming for help makes sense too in this interpretation.
If the affected creatures are in a stupor as the spell says, it's very unlikely they have the presence of mind to understand they're in danger and need to call for help.
Given the short duration of the spell, the fact that it won't work on charm-immune creatures and legendary creatures will likely auto-succeed, and the fact that you can't damage the creatures, I'd consider it in very poor taste for a DM to try to use that technicality to screw the caster out of the one thing the spell's meant to do (put some creatures on hold.)
Remember, if you don't get all of the targets it's possible the ones left over will just shake the others.
So bit of background I am playing a support bard who likes flashy spells so naturally picked hypnotic pattern. My dm was ok with it at first but is getting tired of me immobilizing large groups of enemies. First use I got 7 out of 9 bat swarms with it. Last session we fought some giant spiders and some ettercaps which the dm described as ordering the spiders about. I hypnotic patterned the ettercaps and got them all so as long I maintained concentration they were out of the fight. Dm realized giant spiders aren't smart enough to shake the ettercaps out of it so on one of the ettercaps turns it shouted something that caused the spiders to go and wake them all up.
Technically the spell doesn't say affected creatures cant talk and I applaud his quick thinking so I am not bothered it was countered I was just wondering what everyone thought of it.
It still wasted all the spiders' turns (it takes an action to wake someone).
Hypnotic Pattern is a very good spell (no actions allowed, no followup saves, good area of effect for a level 3 debuff), with some reasonable restrictions (can't affect enemies immune to charm, autobreak on damage, action to wake). It's very common for DMs to have to find ways around how good it is so their mobs don't consistently get wiped out.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
It’s a great spell, but it’s a 3rd level spell too. Compare Hypnotic Pattern to Fireball. Fireball would have also completely destroyed those swarms of bats easily if you would have cast it instead. But you have a very small number of 3rd level spell slots per long rest too, that’s the right solution, your DM shouldn’t let you take a long rest after every combat encounter.
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I'll point out for completion's sake that incapacitated doesn't mention that the creature can't speak. Compare with paralyzed and unconscious, for example, which do.
Yeah knew it was within the rules just wanted to share his work around and see what people thought about it.
They're also Charmed as well as incapacitated, but I looked at the charmed status description and it doesn't say that the charmed creature cannot call for help if it is able to do so. Calling for help is not a hostile action toward the caster and
couplecould be interpreted as purely self-preservation without any thought about having ill intent toward the caster at the moment. I don't think speaking is considered an action or reaction. So, it all follows RAW if I'm understanding RAW correctly.Outside of RAW consideration, I'm okay with it having caveats when affecting creatures of higher intelligence or creatures of pack mentality (where the creatures would naturally, actively attempt to help packmates communicating distress, unlike bats). That's just my thought on it, though.
EDIT: Couple? Why would I type couple?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
To me it feels like a cheap trick to get out of a situation the DM didn't properly plan for after having extensive experience with you utilizing this spell.
What reason did the ettercap have to yell?
Why was the yell loud enough to wake up the other ettercaps?
In reading over the spell, it does specifically state that another creature can use their action to shake the target out of its stupor. Personally, I think this excludes noises from ending the effect, but I'm probably just being pedantic about it.
Ah the shouting didnt wake the other ettercaps it just shouted something on its turn then on the giant spiders next turn they went and nudged the ettercaps awake. So it didnt last the full minute but did waste multiple turns.
I like this solution, it makes Hypnotic Pattern work in a very "A Clockwork Orange" way, where people are still conscious, but susceptible to persuasion ("charmed"), and just can't look away. Screaming for help makes sense too in this interpretation.
I haven't had any issue with this spell yet, but I kinda want to play it this way anyway now. I think it's great.
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If the affected creatures are in a stupor as the spell says, it's very unlikely they have the presence of mind to understand they're in danger and need to call for help.
Given the short duration of the spell, the fact that it won't work on charm-immune creatures and legendary creatures will likely auto-succeed, and the fact that you can't damage the creatures, I'd consider it in very poor taste for a DM to try to use that technicality to screw the caster out of the one thing the spell's meant to do (put some creatures on hold.)
Remember, if you don't get all of the targets it's possible the ones left over will just shake the others.