You're basically the fireball dispenser that your group expects. Coupled with being able to take care of yourself and not being completely made of glass, even with a d6 for Hit Points.
The "Tactical Wit" ability for War Magic is fantastic. I have always had a home rule that in certain situations when rolling for initiative (i.e. leading an army, viewing a specific attack formation, etc.), that the PC can choose to use his Intelligence Modifier instead of his Dexterity Modifier. It helps a lot because other than Wizards, Int is usually a dump stat for most characters, and arguably the least used stat, for combat especially.
I love that players get a bonus for being smart. "Tactical Wit" could even be taken out and added as a feat to a Fighter class or similar.
I'm a little miffed that Mearls decided to just re-release the Theurge with zero changes from how it was first presented in UA: Non-divine Faithful. I remember already having given feedback on it in the survey for that, so to say "oh, yeah NOW we're interested in your feedback on it" is pretty irritating.
I hate how the Theurge gets a cleric ability 3 levels early because Wizards, and I don't even really like it as an option in general.
Also, RIP 3.5e War Mage swiss army knives, you will be missed by, idk, like 7 people. New War Mage seems fun, but nothing will ever top Rainbow War Mages as my favorite caster of all time.
I think their war mage is an all-around balanced idea. It gives the player an option for a sturdier wizard build, and offers new ways to flavor their background for a more battle-torn sort of spell-caster. It's also a very neutral school to choose, as I have heard other players complain about not having a universalist option (and doesn't break the game, like certain UA that has been released).
The Theurgy school is complicated to assess. It will change with whatever domain the player chooses, and a whole other spell list is another can of worms. Has anyone been able to theory craft something that looks over-powered?
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"Because I'm trying to show this water elemental there's no need to be afraid of the pit of fire! Just play along."
Well, the Theurge gets it 3 levels early not just because "lol wizards," but mechanically it's because the new ability break points for wizards happen at those particular levels.
I'm a little miffed that Mearls decided to just re-release the Theurge with zero changes from how it was first presented in UA: Non-divine Faithful. I remember already having given feedback on it in the survey for that, so to say "oh, yeah NOW we're interested in your feedback on it" is pretty irritating.
Well, the feedback given when it came out in the Non-Divine FaithfulUA was heeded, because they cleaned up the verbiage for Arcane Initiate.
Otherwise, it looks like that's the way they want theurgists to work, but they're opening up the floor for one last chance at commentary.
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So, if a Theurge chooses the Tempest domain, at 2nd level, they can twice per day maximise damage from lightning and thunder spells, including Lightning Bolt. That is an average of +20 damage, potentially to many foes, and obviously, the bonus damage increases the higher level spell they use. I think that's imbalanced, to be honest, but to me the flaw lies in the Channel Divinity effect from Tempest. Its balance has always been dependent on not being able to use it on spells like Lightning Bolt - obviously that horse has left the stable with the Theurge.
At first I thought Arcane Deflection for the War Wizard was pretty much useless since you'd use Shield as your reaction, but I guess shield takes up a spell slot (my Wizard still has the Glassstaff from LMoP), so this at least is the ability to always boost your AC by +2 but only for that one attack.
The War Magic looks cool, i think it would suit something similar to the 'Sculpt Spells' feature from the Evocation school. Would be appropriate for the 'war mage' archetype too! Would probably unbalance it somewhat though >__<
The biggest problem is that 17th level capstone at 14th level. They shouldn't have even put that in the first UA, let alone keep it in the second, even if they are looking for feedback this time. It's so blindingly obvious that it's a bad feature I'm not sure why anyone thought it was a good idea in the first place, unless they thought of and published the UA in one day.
Tempest max damage with lightning bolt, call lightning, or chain lightning is incredible. Corona of Light with... any spell that deals radiant or fire is incredible. It makes Meteor Swarm (or even just fireball) so much more dangerous than it already is and increases the power of Wizards exponentially.
The War Magic tradition seems like a winner. I do have a concern that the "only cantrips until the end of the next turn" restriction on the Arcane Deflection feature may be too drastic. Perhaps if the +2 bonus to AC lasted until the end of his next turn it may be more worth the sacrifice of not being able to cast spells of 1st level and above for that time period.
The War Magic tradition seems like a winner. I do have a concern that the "only cantrips until the end of the next turn" restriction on the Arcane Deflection feature may be too drastic. Perhaps if the +2 bonus to AC lasted until the end of his next turn it may be more worth the sacrifice of not being able to cast spells of 1st level and above for that time period.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, I'd agree that for only a +2 to the triggering attack, the downside is too great. +2 until the start of your turn (like shield works) would make more sense.
Theurgy seems really cool from an RP standpoint. But, like others have stated, I don't like how at 14th level you get access to domain spells sooner than being a cleric because you are a wizard. It seems to me you should constantly be a little behind because you aren't as "into the divine favor" as clerics are. One thing I do like about theurgy is that it allows a wizard to still be a wizard and tap into some of the cleric's role. This is a good option for my group since they don't have a healer.
I like War Magic a lot. I honestly thought this would be very OP and tailored to the min-max munchkins, but I think it has a good balance for what it does.
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I don't like quotations, tell me what you know. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I do not see why some people find the Theurge Wizard getting a domain feature earlier than a cleric a problem because it is not a problem. This subclass gets everything else LATER than a cleric would, so there should be some sweetener to choosing this subclass, or else why bother? Also, it makes sense thematically because a high level wizard should have a more advanced mastery of magic than other classes.
Moreover, everyone and their mother can cast spells in D&D now, and so many classes borrow features and spells from wizards, including clerics, so why are some people down on wizards getting to have more options? I really like the option of having a spiritual/religious character who is not a cleric, and it is good touch for wizards to get potential access to some healing abilities that are not based in necromancy or "blood magic." Also, there are a lot of precedents in fantasy literature for a spiritual/religious wizard. This subclass makes for an interesting choice and it is NOT over-powered or imbalanced. At the end of the day, if some people do not like it, they do not need to use this option in their campaign, but I see no reason why others should be denied the "official" option to use it in their campaign.
My one bit of feedback would be to make this subclass choice a bit more powerful and easier to manage. The Arcane Initiate feature of this subclass is really not that great because you have to take all the spells in your domain before you can choose other cleric spells. Many of the spells in many of the domains already ARE wizard spells (and you have to learn ALL spells in your domain), which means over the long course of leveling up, you are really only getting a limited number of cleric spells that you would really want. I would personally get rid of this "fill up your domain" requirement, as it would make this subclass easier to manage and more desirable to choose without really giving it that great of an advantage.
I do not see why some people find the Theurge Wizard getting a domain feature earlier than a cleric a problem because it is not a problem. This subclass gets everything else LATER than a cleric would, so there should be some sweetener to choosing this subclass, or else why bother? Also, it makes sense thematically because a high level wizard should have a more advanced mastery of magic than other classes.
Moreover, everyone and their mother can cast spells in D&D now, and so many classes borrow features and spells from wizards, including clerics, so why are some people down on wizards getting to have more options? I really like the option of having a spiritual/religious character who is not a cleric, and it is good touch for wizards to get potential access to some healing abilities that are not based in necromancy or "blood magic." Also, there are a lot of precedents in fantasy literature for a spiritual/religious wizard. This subclass makes for an interesting choice and it is NOT over-powered or imbalanced. At the end of the day, if some people do not like it, they do not need to use this option in their campaign, but I see no reason why others should be denied the "official" option to use it in their campaign.
My one bit of feedback would be to make this subclass choice a bit more powerful and easier to manage. The Arcane Initiate feature of this subclass is really not that great because you have to take all the spells in your domain before you can choose other cleric spells. Many of the spells in many of the domains already ARE wizard spells (and you have to learn ALL spells in your domain), which means over the long course of leveling up, you are really only getting a limited number of cleric spells that you would really want. I would personally get rid of this "fill up your domain" requirement, as it would make this subclass easier to manage and more desirable to choose without really giving it that great of an advantage.
A wizard can learn 44 spells on his path to level 20 for 'free.' This doesn't count any scrolls, tomes, or wizards he may come into contact that can teach him new spells.On average there are 10 domain spells (2 per level,) a wizard can prepare 25+ spells a day, if your wizard picks up extra spells outside of leveling he doesn't have access to HALF of his prepared spells a day. Are those ten spells really that big a hindrance considering most have some synergy with the domain the player chooses?
Yes. A player would pick this subclass with the goal of being able to trade a wizard spell for any cleric spell of a level they can cast. You want to be able to get the cleric spells you really want not have to wait while you fill up on all the spells in your domain, many of which are already wizard spells. It just seems like a silly hoop to jump through that makes a player go through 20 levels of playing just to get the dozen or so cleric spells they want. (Or, at least, just change the requirement to say you only have to learn all the cleric spells, not the wizard spells, in your chosen domain first).
I do not see why some people find the Theurge Wizard getting a domain feature earlier than a cleric a problem because it is not a problem. This subclass gets everything else LATER than a cleric would, so there should be some sweetener to choosing this subclass, or else why bother? Also, it makes sense thematically because a high level wizard should have a more advanced mastery of magic than other classes.
Moreover, everyone and their mother can cast spells in D&D now, and so many classes borrow features and spells from wizards, including clerics, so why are some people down on wizards getting to have more options? I really like the option of having a spiritual/religious character who is not a cleric, and it is good touch for wizards to get potential access to some healing abilities that are not based in necromancy or "blood magic." Also, there are a lot of precedents in fantasy literature for a spiritual/religious wizard. This subclass makes for an interesting choice and it is NOT over-powered or imbalanced. At the end of the day, if some people do not like it, they do not need to use this option in their campaign, but I see no reason why others should be denied the "official" option to use it in their campaign.
My one bit of feedback would be to make this subclass choice a bit more powerful and easier to manage. The Arcane Initiate feature of this subclass is really not that great because you have to take all the spells in your domain before you can choose other cleric spells. Many of the spells in many of the domains already ARE wizard spells (and you have to learn ALL spells in your domain), which means over the long course of leveling up, you are really only getting a limited number of cleric spells that you would really want. I would personally get rid of this "fill up your domain" requirement, as it would make this subclass easier to manage and more desirable to choose without really giving it that great of an advantage.
Even as a cleric there are only a certain number of cleric spells that see much use, and those are the same ones that a theurge will pick. It doesn't matter if the theurge gets other features later than a cleric because they're not a cleric. Clerics specifically worship a god and get divine power from them. A theurge is a better cleric. And I like how your advice to is to make it even MORE powerful. It's already a better cleric than an actual cleric is. Why not just break the entire game and make clerics useless while you're at it?
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Mrfluckoff
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http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/wizard-revisited
Discuss!
I'm enjoying the War Magic School
You're basically the fireball dispenser that your group expects.
Coupled with being able to take care of yourself and not being completely made of glass, even with a d6 for Hit Points.
The "Tactical Wit" ability for War Magic is fantastic. I have always had a home rule that in certain situations when rolling for initiative (i.e. leading an army, viewing a specific attack formation, etc.), that the PC can choose to use his Intelligence Modifier instead of his Dexterity Modifier. It helps a lot because other than Wizards, Int is usually a dump stat for most characters, and arguably the least used stat, for combat especially.
I love that players get a bonus for being smart. "Tactical Wit" could even be taken out and added as a feat to a Fighter class or similar.
--- --- We want Grung! --- ---
~https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=DragonbornDoug ~
I'm a little miffed that Mearls decided to just re-release the Theurge with zero changes from how it was first presented in UA: Non-divine Faithful. I remember already having given feedback on it in the survey for that, so to say "oh, yeah NOW we're interested in your feedback on it" is pretty irritating.
I hate how the Theurge gets a cleric ability 3 levels early because Wizards, and I don't even really like it as an option in general.
Also, RIP 3.5e War Mage swiss army knives, you will be missed by, idk, like 7 people. New War Mage seems fun, but nothing will ever top Rainbow War Mages as my favorite caster of all time.
Hell yeah, Dungeons and also some Dragons
I think their war mage is an all-around balanced idea. It gives the player an option for a sturdier wizard build, and offers new ways to flavor their background for a more battle-torn sort of spell-caster. It's also a very neutral school to choose, as I have heard other players complain about not having a universalist option (and doesn't break the game, like certain UA that has been released).
The Theurgy school is complicated to assess. It will change with whatever domain the player chooses, and a whole other spell list is another can of worms. Has anyone been able to theory craft something that looks over-powered?
"Because I'm trying to show this water elemental there's no need to be afraid of the pit of fire! Just play along."
Well, the Theurge gets it 3 levels early not just because "lol wizards," but mechanically it's because the new ability break points for wizards happen at those particular levels.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
So, if a Theurge chooses the Tempest domain, at 2nd level, they can twice per day maximise damage from lightning and thunder spells, including Lightning Bolt. That is an average of +20 damage, potentially to many foes, and obviously, the bonus damage increases the higher level spell they use. I think that's imbalanced, to be honest, but to me the flaw lies in the Channel Divinity effect from Tempest. Its balance has always been dependent on not being able to use it on spells like Lightning Bolt - obviously that horse has left the stable with the Theurge.
"We read feedbacks" they said
"We made differences on Theurgy" they said
They only removed "Arcana domain" from "suggested" lol
"What are you lookin' at, filthy mortal?"
At first I thought Arcane Deflection for the War Wizard was pretty much useless since you'd use Shield as your reaction, but I guess shield takes up a spell slot (my Wizard still has the Glassstaff from LMoP), so this at least is the ability to always boost your AC by +2 but only for that one attack.
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Wary the wizard who focuses on homebrew, for he can create nightmares that you wouldn't even dream of
The War Magic looks cool, i think it would suit something similar to the 'Sculpt Spells' feature from the Evocation school. Would be appropriate for the 'war mage' archetype too! Would probably unbalance it somewhat though >__<
The biggest problem is that 17th level capstone at 14th level. They shouldn't have even put that in the first UA, let alone keep it in the second, even if they are looking for feedback this time. It's so blindingly obvious that it's a bad feature I'm not sure why anyone thought it was a good idea in the first place, unless they thought of and published the UA in one day.
Tempest max damage with lightning bolt, call lightning, or chain lightning is incredible. Corona of Light with... any spell that deals radiant or fire is incredible. It makes Meteor Swarm (or even just fireball) so much more dangerous than it already is and increases the power of Wizards exponentially.
Mrfluckoff
The War Magic tradition seems like a winner. I do have a concern that the "only cantrips until the end of the next turn" restriction on the Arcane Deflection feature may be too drastic. Perhaps if the +2 bonus to AC lasted until the end of his next turn it may be more worth the sacrifice of not being able to cast spells of 1st level and above for that time period.
Any thoughts?
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If you have questions/concerns, please Private Message me or another moderator.
Wary the wizard who focuses on homebrew, for he can create nightmares that you wouldn't even dream of
Theurgy seems really cool from an RP standpoint. But, like others have stated, I don't like how at 14th level you get access to domain spells sooner than being a cleric because you are a wizard. It seems to me you should constantly be a little behind because you aren't as "into the divine favor" as clerics are. One thing I do like about theurgy is that it allows a wizard to still be a wizard and tap into some of the cleric's role. This is a good option for my group since they don't have a healer.
I like War Magic a lot. I honestly thought this would be very OP and tailored to the min-max munchkins, but I think it has a good balance for what it does.
I don't like quotations, tell me what you know. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I do not see why some people find the Theurge Wizard getting a domain feature earlier than a cleric a problem because it is not a problem. This subclass gets everything else LATER than a cleric would, so there should be some sweetener to choosing this subclass, or else why bother? Also, it makes sense thematically because a high level wizard should have a more advanced mastery of magic than other classes.
Moreover, everyone and their mother can cast spells in D&D now, and so many classes borrow features and spells from wizards, including clerics, so why are some people down on wizards getting to have more options? I really like the option of having a spiritual/religious character who is not a cleric, and it is good touch for wizards to get potential access to some healing abilities that are not based in necromancy or "blood magic." Also, there are a lot of precedents in fantasy literature for a spiritual/religious wizard. This subclass makes for an interesting choice and it is NOT over-powered or imbalanced. At the end of the day, if some people do not like it, they do not need to use this option in their campaign, but I see no reason why others should be denied the "official" option to use it in their campaign.
My one bit of feedback would be to make this subclass choice a bit more powerful and easier to manage. The Arcane Initiate feature of this subclass is really not that great because you have to take all the spells in your domain before you can choose other cleric spells. Many of the spells in many of the domains already ARE wizard spells (and you have to learn ALL spells in your domain), which means over the long course of leveling up, you are really only getting a limited number of cleric spells that you would really want. I would personally get rid of this "fill up your domain" requirement, as it would make this subclass easier to manage and more desirable to choose without really giving it that great of an advantage.
Yes. A player would pick this subclass with the goal of being able to trade a wizard spell for any cleric spell of a level they can cast. You want to be able to get the cleric spells you really want not have to wait while you fill up on all the spells in your domain, many of which are already wizard spells. It just seems like a silly hoop to jump through that makes a player go through 20 levels of playing just to get the dozen or so cleric spells they want. (Or, at least, just change the requirement to say you only have to learn all the cleric spells, not the wizard spells, in your chosen domain first).
Mrfluckoff