For me the exceptions are limited to the objects listed. For example, there is no generalisation to spells or powers like Rope Trick or Demiplane, that would be too complicated to manage.
The key word is "similar item" listed on the bag of holding. Does the genie bottle count?
The bag of holding's self-destruct is just a clever way to stop you from nesting storage items to get infinite portable storage. The genie warlock vessel is hard to exploit that way because you can only go into it once per day. It's functionally a demiplane, and the rules don't care if you leave a bunch of bags of holding in your demiplane since you don't have free access to it.
The Genie Vessel has no such text, I believe the "similar item" language is used for the addition of future items that would include such a description.
Additionally, unlike the Genie Vessel you also suffocate in a BoH, HH, or PH after 10min, so it's not the same kind of extra-dimensional space.
I can't find a reference for it now but Jeremy Crawford frequently says things like 'the spell only does what the spells description says it does' so I try to use this as my starting mindset when interpreting rules.
I think the notable part of the bag of holding description is that you need to place it in an extradimensional space created by one of those mentioned items. The vessel itself isn’t a magic item, it’s merely a focus for your patrons magic which is what creates the extra dimensional space. So in theory the item itself doesn’t do anything, it’s just a physical representation of the space created by your patron genie’s magic
Also, there doesn’t seem to be any implication that you’d be blasted to the astral plane if you were to put your vessel into a bag of holding, like all those items make sure to indicate.
As long as you were prepared to deal with some problems. This is something the DM would have to decide. If you put the Vessel in the bag first, you can't go into it, if you put yourself in the Vessel someone else has to put it in the bag for you. Once you're in the bag, you can't come back out, or if you can, you're inside the bag and might suffocate if nobody else lets you out. There's no mention of being able to open the bag from inside, so the only way out other than someone letting you is to destroy it, and that's a ticket to the Astral Plane. You're totally at someone else's hands, and since you're inside two extra-dimentional space, you can't perceive anything outside of the bag, which could end up anywhere.
There is arguments for astral explosion and not-explosion.
Ruling as if the bag explodes when inside the lamp: Your warlock basically can't make use of the bag of holding and the Vessel class feature at the same time. So if you like going inside the Vessel from time to time, you better not use bags of holding or haversacks.
Ruling as if the bag doesn't interact with the lamp: Your warlock basically can colect multiple bags of holding, fill them up and then make a vault out of your Vessel with piles and piles of gold and gems that are now much easier to carry than 15 bags of holding(but you can only deposit and/or withdraw once per long rest). This of course is also true for just putting all the party bags inside the Vessel, magical or not. Very inconspicuous indeed(maybe useful for crossing dangerous borders or moving treasure?).
RAI I do not think there will be a astrol explosion. Because it would be too simple for the BBEG to wait for the party To be all inside the lamp. Then have someone sneak up and put it in a bag of holding thus causing the explosion. Therefore he got rid of the entire party.
If you cannot carry your bag of holding into your genie bottle, that would be a pretty big punishment for choosing this pateron. You would effectively be locking yourself out of ever using several of the games best magic items for carrying capacity.
It could be argued that your genie bottle can act as it's own storage space, but you would only have access to it 1 time per long rest AND there are no weight limits nor tearing effects listed in the description as there are in the case of a bag of holding or a haversack.
I believe that if this extradimensional space were intended to be treated in the same way that a bag of holding is treated, it would say so in the description of the space. I think this is meant to be treated in the same way as a wizards magical tower is treated. The wizard uses a spell to create a door, and the tower is a pocket dimension that is accessed through that door. The wizard decided who can use the door. Players are free to enter that tower while carrying a bag of holding or a haversack or a portable hole with no danger of the items exploding or opening portals to other planes. In the same way, the genie bottle is a door to pocket dimension space that can be entered by the warlock (and at later levels, those the warlock chooses to allow access).
I would probably rule that a player could choose: 1) They are allowed to carry bags of holding into their space BUT - nothing can be left in the genie bottle without the warlock present. Anything left behind when the warlock leaves gets booted out onto the ground immediately. (Meaning the warlock cannot use it as a place to store their stuff)
2) They are NOT allowed to carry extra-dimensional items into their space BUT - the space can be use for permanent storage and accessed as many times per day as wanted, as long as it does not exceed the maximum time allowed per day.
Yeah I really wish the genie vessel was PB times a day for basically the same reason. In play 9 times out of 10 its just a safe place to get a short rest. Don't get me wrong that is useful especially for a warlock, hand bob your vessel hop in and rest while the party is moving. They should give them a separate PB 1 minute duration entries.
The genie extradimension space is not created by an item. It is created by your patron as a subclass feature. The vessel merely holds the space.
By Rules as Written there is no interaction to worry about.
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The genie extradimension space is not created by an item. It is created by your patron as a subclass feature. The vessel merely holds the space.
By Rules as Written there is no interaction to worry about.
That's 100% headcanon. Nowhere does the feature say anything even remotely like this.
"As an action, you can magically vanish and enter your vessel, which remains in the space you left. The interior of the vessel is an extradimensional space in the shape of a 20-foot-radius cylinder, 20 feet high, and resembles your vessel."
It does say at the start of the feature that "Your patron gifts you a magical vessel that grants you a measure of the genie’s power." In other words, that it is the genie's power that you are using with the magical vessel. It is your genie's power that creates the extradimensional space. You are using your genie's power to access the space that the genie's power has created.
The bottle: The interior of the vessel is an extradimensional space in the shape of a 20-foot-radius cylinder, 20 feet high, and resembles your vessel.
Bag of holding: "This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep."
Hewards handy haversack: This backpack has a central pouch and two side pouches, each of which is an extradimensional space.
The problem is that there is no similar wording between them aside from this "Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a Heward's handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane."
So I guess the question boils down to, "does the item create a extradimensional space?"
The lack of the wording heavily implies it does not interact that way just like a rope trick doesn't. While it would be nice if rope trick etc spelled it out the lack of the wording should be enough to show it.
The lack of the wording heavily implies it does not interact that way just like a rope trick doesn't. While it would be nice if rope trick etc spelled it out the lack of the wording should be enough to show it.
The part that we are getting caught up on is "...or similar item..." rope trick is a spell so that doesn't qualify.
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Very simple question. If you have a bag of holding and went into your genie bottle would it open a rift to the astral plane?
Is there an official ruling for this yet?
The key word is "similar item" listed on the bag of holding. Does the genie bottle count?
Makes sense to me. So until we hear otherwise, I would agree that a bag of holding does not interact with the genie bottle.
For all of those who are reading this wanting to know the answer as well.
The bag of holding's self-destruct is just a clever way to stop you from nesting storage items to get infinite portable storage. The genie warlock vessel is hard to exploit that way because you can only go into it once per day. It's functionally a demiplane, and the rules don't care if you leave a bunch of bags of holding in your demiplane since you don't have free access to it.
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The bag of holding, handy haversack and portable hole item descriptions, all contain text about instantly destroying both items.
The Genie Vessel has no such text, I believe the "similar item" language is used for the addition of future items that would include such a description.
Additionally, unlike the Genie Vessel you also suffocate in a BoH, HH, or PH after 10min, so it's not the same kind of extra-dimensional space.
I can't find a reference for it now but Jeremy Crawford frequently says things like 'the spell only does what the spells description says it does' so I try to use this as my starting mindset when interpreting rules.
I think the notable part of the bag of holding description is that you need to place it in an extradimensional space created by one of those mentioned items. The vessel itself isn’t a magic item, it’s merely a focus for your patrons magic which is what creates the extra dimensional space. So in theory the item itself doesn’t do anything, it’s just a physical representation of the space created by your patron genie’s magic
Also, there doesn’t seem to be any implication that you’d be blasted to the astral plane if you were to put your vessel into a bag of holding, like all those items make sure to indicate.
As long as you were prepared to deal with some problems. This is something the DM would have to decide. If you put the Vessel in the bag first, you can't go into it, if you put yourself in the Vessel someone else has to put it in the bag for you. Once you're in the bag, you can't come back out, or if you can, you're inside the bag and might suffocate if nobody else lets you out. There's no mention of being able to open the bag from inside, so the only way out other than someone letting you is to destroy it, and that's a ticket to the Astral Plane. You're totally at someone else's hands, and since you're inside two extra-dimentional space, you can't perceive anything outside of the bag, which could end up anywhere.
<Insert clever signature here>
There is arguments for astral explosion and not-explosion.
Ruling as if the bag explodes when inside the lamp: Your warlock basically can't make use of the bag of holding and the Vessel class feature at the same time. So if you like going inside the Vessel from time to time, you better not use bags of holding or haversacks.
Ruling as if the bag doesn't interact with the lamp: Your warlock basically can colect multiple bags of holding, fill them up and then make a vault out of your Vessel with piles and piles of gold and gems that are now much easier to carry than 15 bags of holding(but you can only deposit and/or withdraw once per long rest). This of course is also true for just putting all the party bags inside the Vessel, magical or not. Very inconspicuous indeed(maybe useful for crossing dangerous borders or moving treasure?).
RAI I do not think there will be a astrol explosion. Because it would be too simple for the BBEG to wait for the party To be all inside the lamp. Then have someone sneak up and put it in a bag of holding thus causing the explosion. Therefore he got rid of the entire party.
If you cannot carry your bag of holding into your genie bottle, that would be a pretty big punishment for choosing this pateron. You would effectively be locking yourself out of ever using several of the games best magic items for carrying capacity.
It could be argued that your genie bottle can act as it's own storage space, but you would only have access to it 1 time per long rest AND there are no weight limits nor tearing effects listed in the description as there are in the case of a bag of holding or a haversack.
I believe that if this extradimensional space were intended to be treated in the same way that a bag of holding is treated, it would say so in the description of the space. I think this is meant to be treated in the same way as a wizards magical tower is treated. The wizard uses a spell to create a door, and the tower is a pocket dimension that is accessed through that door. The wizard decided who can use the door. Players are free to enter that tower while carrying a bag of holding or a haversack or a portable hole with no danger of the items exploding or opening portals to other planes. In the same way, the genie bottle is a door to pocket dimension space that can be entered by the warlock (and at later levels, those the warlock chooses to allow access).
I would probably rule that a player could choose:
1) They are allowed to carry bags of holding into their space BUT - nothing can be left in the genie bottle without the warlock present. Anything left behind when the warlock leaves gets booted out onto the ground immediately. (Meaning the warlock cannot use it as a place to store their stuff)
2) They are NOT allowed to carry extra-dimensional items into their space BUT - the space can be use for permanent storage and accessed as many times per day as wanted, as long as it does not exceed the maximum time allowed per day.
Yeah I really wish the genie vessel was PB times a day for basically the same reason. In play 9 times out of 10 its just a safe place to get a short rest. Don't get me wrong that is useful especially for a warlock, hand bob your vessel hop in and rest while the party is moving. They should give them a separate PB 1 minute duration entries.
The genie extradimension space is not created by an item. It is created by your patron as a subclass feature. The vessel merely holds the space.
By Rules as Written there is no interaction to worry about.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
"As an action, you can magically vanish and enter your vessel, which remains in the space you left. The interior of the vessel is an extradimensional space in the shape of a 20-foot-radius cylinder, 20 feet high, and resembles your vessel."
Yup agreed.
It does say at the start of the feature that "Your patron gifts you a magical vessel that grants you a measure of the genie’s power." In other words, that it is the genie's power that you are using with the magical vessel. It is your genie's power that creates the extradimensional space. You are using your genie's power to access the space that the genie's power has created.
So respectfully, I disagree.
The bottle: The interior of the vessel is an extradimensional space in the shape of a 20-foot-radius cylinder, 20 feet high, and resembles your vessel.
Bag of holding: "This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep."
Hewards handy haversack: This backpack has a central pouch and two side pouches, each of which is an extradimensional space.
Portable hole: "...portable hole creates an extradimensional hole 10 feet deep."
The problem is that there is no similar wording between them aside from this "Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a Heward's handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane."
So I guess the question boils down to, "does the item create a extradimensional space?"
The lack of the wording heavily implies it does not interact that way just like a rope trick doesn't. While it would be nice if rope trick etc spelled it out the lack of the wording should be enough to show it.
The part that we are getting caught up on is "...or similar item..." rope trick is a spell so that doesn't qualify.