Our Dm read the Bonus Action spell RAW broadly and allowed a second cantrip to be cast as a bonus action (cantrip + cantrip in one round). I thought that was clear. Sorry. If you want to limit it to Bonus Action Spell (specific casting duration on a Bonus Action) + Cantrip you can. The alternative is one less FB on the same round as a BW. If a FB unbalances a DM's game i'm a duck.
That is not an "interpretation" it's a massive game-altering house rule which normally requires high level to get that ability. You think it's not big because it's firebolt. It will be friggen massive later in the game when a warlock NPC hits you with two Eldritch Blasts enhanced by blast-altering invocations. All of a sudden you will be a cooked duck. Though really it's seriously unbalanced right now at level 3 - you get ONE action. You're acting as if you get two attacks with one action, pretending a bonus action is something completely different from what it is. It sounds like maybe your DM is inexperienced with 5e and either misread some things or has some false carry-overs from prior editions.
There is also no such thing as Adamantine Splint, another house rule. Adamantine is supposed to be +3 items according to Mike Mearls. 3rd level characters shouldn't have any magic items aside from the most weak items like a couple of potions. Also Splint is AC 14, with a max bonus dex of 2, for a max AC of 16 not 17.
Walk around with your scimitar out. 1st round - cast firebolt, bladeward, move to engage, 2nd round - Make one attack, draw secondary weapon, Bladeward ends (you hope the init allows you to act LAST so it stays up longer), 3rd round - Make 2 attacks (scimitar and dagger), cast Shield if needed as a reaction if hit.
You might be a LITTLE too liberal in your reading of my post. He made an exception for bladeward so I didnt have to take a level in sorc to quicken the spell. The DM was not insane as you seem to assume. Ahem.
Our Dm read the Bonus Action spell RAW broadly and allowed a second cantrip to be cast as a bonus action (cantrip + cantrip in one round). I thought that was clear. Sorry. If you want to limit it to Bonus Action Spell (specific casting duration on a Bonus Action) + Cantrip you can. The alternative is one less FB on the same round as a BW. If a FB unbalances a DM's game i'm a duck.
That is not an "interpretation" it's a massive game-altering house rule which normally requires high level to get that ability. You think it's not big because it's firebolt. It will be friggen massive later in the game when a warlock NPC hits you with two Eldritch Blasts enhanced by blast-altering invocations. All of a sudden you will be a cooked duck. Though really it's seriously unbalanced right now at level 3 - you get ONE action. You're acting as if you get two attacks with one action, pretending a bonus action is something completely different from what it is. It sounds like maybe your DM is inexperienced with 5e and either misread some things or has some false carry-overs from prior editions.
There is also no such thing as Adamantine Splint, another house rule. Adamantine is supposed to be +3 items according to Mike Mearls. 3rd level characters shouldn't have any magic items aside from the most weak items like a couple of potions. Also Splint is AC 14, with a max bonus dex of 2, for a max AC of 16 not 17.
Walk around with your scimitar out. 1st round - cast firebolt, bladeward, move to engage, 2nd round - Make one attack, draw secondary weapon, Bladeward ends (you hope the init allows you to act LAST so it stays up longer), 3rd round - Make 2 attacks (scimitar and dagger), cast Shield if needed as a reaction if hit.
You might be a LITTLE too liberal in your reading of my post. He made an exception for bladeward so I didnt have to take a level in sorc to quicken the spell. The DM was not insane as you seem to assume. Ahem.
Fire bolt and Blade Ward are each 1-action spells. There is no way to read the Rules As Written "broadly" to allow a second (full) action as a bonus action, unless the spell in question has a casting time of a bonus action. There is no "take a level" in sorc to quicken a spell, it's a THIRD LEVEL ability, and it costs 2 sorcery points to do it, and a 3rd level sorcerer only had 3 total points to spend so they'd only get to do that ONE TIME PER DAY.
I am not calling anyone insane. I am saying it's a massive game-altering house rule. If your DM is upping the effectiveness of your foes, and all the other players, to adjust for that sort of change then I am sure it will work out fine. But if your DM is not doing those things, then I think it's seriously unbalancing and well overpowered.
There is no way to read the Rules As Written "broadly" to allow a second (full) action as a bonus action, unless the spell in question has a casting time of a bonus action.
Everything else you said is right, but action/bonus action can be a bit tricky for new players to grasp.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Reviving this thread. I've been playing a EK since 1st level for over a year now. currently 8th level. Variant human EK8 Because of Role play I chose Magic Initiate as Bonus Human feat (INT, Frostbite, Greenflame Blade, IceKnife) Str:18, Dex:10, Con:14, Int:14, Wis:12, Chr:8
Overall I really like the class in combat, I have options to use a Spell; cantrip+bonus Weapon attack; or 2x weapon+Bonus Shield bash (make prone); ++Action Surge
Booming Blade is really coming on with Bonus 1d8 on a hit and +2d8 on a move + my bonus attack (War Magic) Defensively I'm in Plate armor and shield 20AC + Shield as a reaction as I need it (saved me a few times). I'm more effective against creatures that have some resistances due to the added Cantrip magical attacks, and Spells like Shatter.
One think to know with an Eldritch knight is to know you actions. Reactions, Interactions, Bonus actions.
Bonus actions are only once and can be used for the Bonus War Magic, Action Surge/Second Wind, shield master bash. Reactions are almost exclusively for me Defensive Shield/Absorb Elements Interactions for Potion Drinking, Item Grabbing, Ioun Stone activation, etc...
I intend to get Ritual Caster Wizard at some point for some utility spells. MAx my Str to 20, and increase Int from there. Going pure EK all the way
Haven't gotten to play with it yet, but i intend to use one for its Weapon bond ability. I made a Tabaxi Monk/fighter (Way of the Shadow/Eldritch Knight) and gave him what is essentially a giant Shuriken (Metal ring with 4 large blades that swing freely). He throws and summons it back. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
MY Weapon bond hasn't come into play much (only real example was a case where the group was invited to a ball, no weapons allowed in, I was able to call my weapon at moment of need).
I'm thinking about bonding to a spear and use that for ranged attack actions - recall, rinse - repeat.
But I prefer mele for this full on fighter, with added magic. Blur, cantrip strikes(Lightning lure, Booming Blade, Greenflame blade), and shield reactions are great.
Expeditious retreat is also handy, strike (booming blade), retreat, get them to follow....BOOM!
For those hoping to use Weapon Bond with a thrown weapon to repeatedly attack with Extra Attack, remember that teleporting the weapon into your hand costs your bonus action. Which means you can only bring it back to your hand once a turn.
The combo works reasonably well with a Lightning Javelin, er, once, so there's that. Its a free lightning spell, and you don't have to worry about having to go retrieve it or end up losing it if you're completely off target. The bound weapon thing is honestly only useful in situations where you might be deprived of your weapons otherwise and...that's really about it. Enemy vulnerabilities to physical damage doesn't come up too often, so having that free bonus action to swap out weapons is nice, but not terribly important. I like the flavor of it though.
So with Weapon Bond, can you throw a hand axe for instance and have it return to you as a bonus action. I am guessing the answer is yes from the way the rules are stated and what some of you have said previously but I love verification from the experts. (I understand it would cost a bonus action.)
Also using action surge seems to imply that you could cast two spells that take one action. Is this true? Seems crazy and makes an Eldritch Knights somewhat more powerful than a regular spell caster. Let me know if I am not understanding it. Thank you!
I've heard a lot of back and forth regarding Action Surge and the wording regarding a spell cast. In the Handbook, it indicates if you cast a spell, the only other spell you can cast during that turn is a Cantrip. Now granted, that is in relation to spells that can be cast as a Bonus Action, while Action Surge gives you an entirely new action. Most people I've talked to (and IIRC, the Crawford tweet through Sage Advice) seem to support being able to cast a secondary full spell with the Action Surge.
I'd argue that doesn't make them much better then other spellcasters as a single class character though. They're spellslots are still limited compared to...nearly everyone else, you only get a handful of spells to work with, and you have a limited number of Action Surges that would be available to you. Remember, they're still a fighter class and are still built around that idea.
And yeah, you can use a thrown weapon and teleport it back to your hand. Its not particularly useful unless you have something like a Javelin of Lightning. You can do it once per turn though, so you're still missing out the Fighters extra attacks if you go that route.
So with Weapon Bond, can you throw a hand axe for instance and have it return to you as a bonus action. I am guessing the answer is yes from the way the rules are stated and what some of you have said previously but I love verification from the experts. (I understand it would cost a bonus action.)
Also using action surge seems to imply that you could cast two spells that take one action. Is this true? Seems crazy and makes an Eldritch Knights somewhat more powerful than a regular spell caster. Let me know if I am not understanding it. Thank you!
If I was your DM, I'd say yes to the first question. Seems like a practical enough use of the ability. As someone else mentioned above in this thread, you can only do it once per turn due to being able to only take one bonus action per turn. It's important information for higher level characters.
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn. If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
To me, this implies that having a second actions means yes, you can cast another spell even if it takes a full action. ^_^
Spells: Absorb Elements, Shield, Protection from Evil and Good, Sleep
Yes, I'm aware that a half-elf is not an OPTIMAL choice for an Eldritch Knight, nor is this particular build right now. But I didn't care. I went with skills that fit my backstory. That, and my spell choices are defensive for a reason. And because the DM is merciful, my main weapon (a rapier) is treated as my arcane focus.
Still, I'm hoping to multiclass into at least a level 2 wizard for Bladesinger. That, and have a build where I will have 30 Passive Perception and not be surprised (with Observant and Alert). Also hoping to grab Shadow Blade and Haste later on.
Spells: Absorb Elements, Shield, Protection from Evil and Good, Sleep
Yes, I'm aware that a half-elf is not an OPTIMAL choice for an Eldritch Knight, nor is this particular build right now. But I didn't care. I went with skills that fit my backstory. That, and my spell choices are defensive for a reason. And because the DM is merciful, my main weapon (a rapier) is treated as my arcane focus.
Still, I'm hoping to multiclass into at least a level 2 wizard for Bladesinger. That, and have a build where I will have 30 Passive Perception and not be surprised (with Observant and Alert). Also hoping to grab Shadow Blade and Haste later on.
Isn't your AC 18: Studded leather (AC 12) + 4 Dex + 2 shield?
So what does everyone think of my build? Keep in mind that he is my first long-term PC. Also, if you have ideas for feat choices to make him better, please share.
I think it looks pretty good. You have a very good array of stats and a wide range of proficient languages and skills. Don't worry too much if the character is optimal or not,unless the rest of your party are a group of uber-munchkins all that really matters is that you have fun playing the character.
A few things to bear in mind though.
The utility of sleep will diminish as you level up. As a first level spell it can affect 5-40 (avg. 22.5) hit points of enemies, which means with an average roll it could affect a single gnoll or three goblins. It is OK for now, but if you multi-class into Wizard for 2 levels I would make sure you retrain it when you next take a level in Fighter.
Most of your spells do not have a material component. This means that you will need to have a hand free when casting these spells. Your DM seems generous so may allow you to hold your weapon with your shield hand while casting. While your weapon counts as an Arcane Focus thanks to your DM, an Arcane Focus only substitutes for a material component with no gp cost. The Warcaster feat would allow you to cast spells with somatic but no material components while both your hands are full.
If you are going to multi-class into Wizard for Bladesinger, I would recommend doing so at level 7. Because of the way determining your spell slots works for multi-class characters, the best time to multi-class out of Eldritch Knight is when you have a multiple of 3 levels.
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Actually Splint is a flat AC 17.
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Walk around with your scimitar out. 1st round - cast firebolt, bladeward, move to engage, 2nd round - Make one attack, draw secondary weapon, Bladeward ends (you hope the init allows you to act LAST so it stays up longer), 3rd round - Make 2 attacks (scimitar and dagger), cast Shield if needed as a reaction if hit.
You might be a LITTLE too liberal in your reading of my post. He made an exception for bladeward so I didnt have to take a level in sorc to quicken the spell. The DM was not insane as you seem to assume. Ahem.
I am not calling anyone insane. I am saying it's a massive game-altering house rule. If your DM is upping the effectiveness of your foes, and all the other players, to adjust for that sort of change then I am sure it will work out fine. But if your DM is not doing those things, then I think it's seriously unbalancing and well overpowered.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Reviving this thread. I've been playing a EK since 1st level for over a year now. currently 8th level.
Variant human EK8
Because of Role play I chose Magic Initiate as Bonus Human feat (INT, Frostbite, Greenflame Blade, IceKnife)
Str:18, Dex:10, Con:14, Int:14, Wis:12, Chr:8
fighting style: dueling
Feats: Magic initiate, shield master, Warcaster, ASI(STR),
spells:Frostbite, Greenflame Blade, Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, iceknife, protection from Evil/Good, Absorb elements, shield, Thunderwave, Expeditious retreat, Shatter
Overall I really like the class in combat, I have options to use a Spell; cantrip+bonus Weapon attack; or 2x weapon+Bonus Shield bash (make prone); ++Action Surge
Booming Blade is really coming on with Bonus 1d8 on a hit and +2d8 on a move + my bonus attack (War Magic)
Defensively I'm in Plate armor and shield 20AC + Shield as a reaction as I need it (saved me a few times).
I'm more effective against creatures that have some resistances due to the added Cantrip magical attacks, and Spells like Shatter.
One think to know with an Eldritch knight is to know you actions. Reactions, Interactions, Bonus actions.
Bonus actions are only once and can be used for the Bonus War Magic, Action Surge/Second Wind, shield master bash.
Reactions are almost exclusively for me Defensive Shield/Absorb Elements
Interactions for Potion Drinking, Item Grabbing, Ioun Stone activation, etc...
I intend to get Ritual Caster Wizard at some point for some utility spells.
MAx my Str to 20, and increase Int from there. Going pure EK all the way
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Haven't gotten to play with it yet, but i intend to use one for its Weapon bond ability. I made a Tabaxi Monk/fighter (Way of the Shadow/Eldritch Knight) and gave him what is essentially a giant Shuriken (Metal ring with 4 large blades that swing freely). He throws and summons it back. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
MY Weapon bond hasn't come into play much (only real example was a case where the group was invited to a ball, no weapons allowed in, I was able to call my weapon at moment of need).
I'm thinking about bonding to a spear and use that for ranged attack actions - recall, rinse - repeat.
But I prefer mele for this full on fighter, with added magic. Blur, cantrip strikes(Lightning lure, Booming Blade, Greenflame blade), and shield reactions are great.
Expeditious retreat is also handy, strike (booming blade), retreat, get them to follow....BOOM!
For those hoping to use Weapon Bond with a thrown weapon to repeatedly attack with Extra Attack, remember that teleporting the weapon into your hand costs your bonus action. Which means you can only bring it back to your hand once a turn.
The combo works reasonably well with a Lightning Javelin, er, once, so there's that. Its a free lightning spell, and you don't have to worry about having to go retrieve it or end up losing it if you're completely off target. The bound weapon thing is honestly only useful in situations where you might be deprived of your weapons otherwise and...that's really about it. Enemy vulnerabilities to physical damage doesn't come up too often, so having that free bonus action to swap out weapons is nice, but not terribly important. I like the flavor of it though.
So with Weapon Bond, can you throw a hand axe for instance and have it return to you as a bonus action. I am guessing the answer is yes from the way the rules are stated and what some of you have said previously but I love verification from the experts. (I understand it would cost a bonus action.)
Also using action surge seems to imply that you could cast two spells that take one action. Is this true? Seems crazy and makes an Eldritch Knights somewhat more powerful than a regular spell caster. Let me know if I am not understanding it. Thank you!
I've heard a lot of back and forth regarding Action Surge and the wording regarding a spell cast. In the Handbook, it indicates if you cast a spell, the only other spell you can cast during that turn is a Cantrip. Now granted, that is in relation to spells that can be cast as a Bonus Action, while Action Surge gives you an entirely new action. Most people I've talked to (and IIRC, the Crawford tweet through Sage Advice) seem to support being able to cast a secondary full spell with the Action Surge.
I'd argue that doesn't make them much better then other spellcasters as a single class character though. They're spellslots are still limited compared to...nearly everyone else, you only get a handful of spells to work with, and you have a limited number of Action Surges that would be available to you. Remember, they're still a fighter class and are still built around that idea.
And yeah, you can use a thrown weapon and teleport it back to your hand. Its not particularly useful unless you have something like a Javelin of Lightning. You can do it once per turn though, so you're still missing out the Fighters extra attacks if you go that route.
I currently have a level 6 half-elf eldritch knight. His current statistics are:
HP: 66
AC: 19 (Studded Leather/+4 DEX/+1 Shield)
Ability Scores: STR 14/DEX 18/CON 16/INT 16/WIS 17/CHA 14
Background: Sage
Languages: Common, Elvish, Dwarvish, Draconic, Orc
Skills: Insight, Perception, Investigation, Arcana, History, Religion
Feats: Resilient (WIS), Prodigy (Athletics, Sylvan, Thieves' Tools, Expertise in Perception)
Cantrips: Ray of Frost, Shocking Grasp
Spells: Absorb Elements, Shield, Protection from Evil and Good, Sleep
Yes, I'm aware that a half-elf is not an OPTIMAL choice for an Eldritch Knight, nor is this particular build right now. But I didn't care. I went with skills that fit my backstory. That, and my spell choices are defensive for a reason. And because the DM is merciful, my main weapon (a rapier) is treated as my arcane focus.
Still, I'm hoping to multiclass into at least a level 2 wizard for Bladesinger. That, and have a build where I will have 30 Passive Perception and not be surprised (with Observant and Alert). Also hoping to grab Shadow Blade and Haste later on.
They probably mean they have a shield, +1.
Ooops. Gotcha.
So what does everyone think of my build? Keep in mind that he is my first long-term PC. Also, if you have ideas for feat choices to make him better, please share.
I think it looks pretty good. You have a very good array of stats and a wide range of proficient languages and skills. Don't worry too much if the character is optimal or not,unless the rest of your party are a group of uber-munchkins all that really matters is that you have fun playing the character.
A few things to bear in mind though.
If you are going to multi-class into Wizard for Bladesinger, I would recommend doing so at level 7. Because of the way determining your spell slots works for multi-class characters, the best time to multi-class out of Eldritch Knight is when you have a multiple of 3 levels.