Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to identify or apply herbs.
So, if they have found some herbs, they can use their proficiency bonus in the kit (and suitable stat, probably INT) to determine what the herbs are. They can also do similar (probably with WIS) to apply any beneficial herbs.
Uses for this might include looking for suitable herbs to treat a fever that someone is suffering from, or to stop a wound becoming infected (not really a problem if you have magical healing).
This allows the character to create these items, given the appropriate time and ingredients to do so.
The PHB provides further info on creating a healing potion (cost 25 gp and 10 days of time). This is half the purchase price of a potion of healing, which is normally 50 gp. Seems reasonable then that creating an antitoxin would also cost approx half of the purchase price.
Excellent! Thanks. Oh, if I tell him he can create healing potions... I wonder if he'll ever adventure again. (He's a 3rd level Merchant, or should be)
This allows the character to create these items, given the appropriate time and ingredients to do so.
The PHB provides further info on creating a healing potion (cost 25 gp and 10 days of time). This is half the purchase price of a potion of healing, which is normally 50 gp. Seems reasonable then that creating an antitoxin would also cost approx half of the purchase price.
To be clear, required isn't the same as sufficient. Potions of Healing are magic items, so they use the magic item creation rules in the DMG, not the PH.
You need to meet a spellcaster level requirement (3 for common items), have the formula for the magic item, and work in 25g (not 5g) increments per day. If the item produces a spell (Potions of Healing are arguably Cure Wounds effects) you need to expend an appropriate spell slot (and material components, if they're consumed) each day.
A character with the herbalism kit and the formula for the potion could create one in 2 days. If they're not a spellcaster, they could get one to contribute their spellcasting and spell slots.
Antitoxins aren't magical, so those could be created with the PH rules and doesn't require special consideration from the DM, unlike acquiring formulas for magic items.
Required isn't the same as sufficient. Potions of Healing are magic items, so they use the magic item creation rules in the DMG, not the PH.
You need to meet a spellcaster level requirement (3 for common items), have the formula for the magic item, and work in 25g (not 5g) increments per day. If the item produces a spell (and Potions of Healing arguably do) you need to expend an appropriate spell slot (and material components) each day.
A character with the herbalism kit and the formula for the potion could create one in 1 day. If they're not a spellcaster, they could get one to contribute their spellcasting and spell slots.
Antitoxins aren't magical, so those could be created with the PH rules and doesn't require special consideration from the DM, unlike acquiring formulas for magic items.
This is something that has been debated at length on various forums/subreddits since the release of 5e, because the RAW (Rules As Written) in the DMG state that it costs 100 gp to make a healing potion, that sells for 50 gp from a merchant. This seems ridiculous, which is why many use the PHB rules to allow a potion of healing to be crafted as if it were a mundane item.
You're right though, I hadn't picked up on the wording on herbalist kit and as JC says, "Required, not sufficient."
That still means that it costs 50 gp and several days of effort to create a Potion of Healing that then sells for the amount it cost to make it? Still seems odd.
So, the overall advice I would give is that you should allow your player to do what you deem reasonable within your game, to allow them to feel that they have the ability to accomplish their goals, but with sufficient challenge that it is interesting to do so.
That still means that it costs 50 gp and several days of effort to create a Potion of Healing that then sells for the amount it cost to make it? Still seems odd.
That means that it's not profitable to create and sell potions of healing, in a world that is, by default, inundated with adventurers--people who really need portable healing magic. That's . . . interesting.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Well, potions of healing are a bit special since they're the only magic item that the core rules assume is available in every world and can be reliably found and bought at a fixed price. Despite being magic items, the PH treats it like standard adventuring equipment. The magic item rules do say "You are free to adjust the costs to better suit your campaign" so you could always make an exception for potions of healing and say they cost less to produce. The magic item creation costs are pessimistic (the creation cost is the highest price items of that rarity are worth) since being able to create magic items is very powerful.
But I think the current rules are fine. Being able to create potions of healing on demand instead of being tied to availability at larger towns is still extremely useful, despite the lack of discount. Two spellcasters can work together to produce a potion in a single day, and in a sense they're stockpiling unused spell slots for another day.
There's already precedent for items being sold at cost with Holy Water:
A typical temple doesn't try to make a profit by selling holy water. It's sold at cost to aid the fight against fiends and the undead. -Jeremy Crawford
Potions of Healing could be similar. Adventurers provide useful services, and they're willing and able to travel to larger towns for potions. It's in a city's best interest to have potions in stock for local adventurers (and the city watch, the army, and the royal guards.) The government could subsidize their production, paying local temples or bard colleges a small amount to sell them to shops at cost.
The shops benefit from this because the potions act as loss leaders; they attract customers that spend money on other profitable items. Selling them at cost also prevents random adventurers from undercutting the local shops, since they'd have to lose money to offer a lower price.
"This kit contains a variety of instruments such as clippers, mortar and pestle, and pouches and vials used by herbalists to create remedies and potions. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to identify or apply herbs. Also, proficiency with this kit is required to create antitoxin and any potion of healing"
The only people that have proficiency with the kit that I can tell are the Druid class, and the Hermit background. Who the hell is making healing potions in our world??
Using the "training" downtime activity anyone can learn a language or a tool proficiency. So anyone could have proficiency with herbalist kits. Xanathar's guide has more details on creating healing potions.
"This kit contains a variety of instruments such as clippers, mortar and pestle, and pouches and vials used by herbalists to create remedies and potions. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to identify or apply herbs. Also, proficiency with this kit is required to create antitoxin and any potion of healing"
The only people that have proficiency with the kit that I can tell are the Druid class, and the Hermit background. Who the hell is making healing potions in our world??
Not all NPCs are built as PCs. In other words, NPCs are not subject to the same restrictions as PCs, including the lists of character options. In other words, it is possible to have an NPC be proficient with an herbalism kit without being a druid or Hermit.
If that makes your head hurt, you could make a Herbalist background. It's simple; you just pick two skills (you are allowed to let them pick their skills, possibly from a list; I'd go with two of Arcana, Nature, or Survival), two in any combination of tools and/or languages (again, player choice is allowed; I'd go with herbalism kit and poisoner's kit), a ribbon (defined by the folks at WotC as any ability meant to convey flavor rather than a mechanical advantage, which should include all other background features), and some equipment.
Not all NPCs are built as PCs. In other words, NPCs are not subject to the same restrictions as PCs, including the lists of character options. In other words, it is possible to have an NPC be proficient with an herbalism kit without being a druid or Hermit.
Not only are NPCs not required to be built along the same rules and restrictions as PCs, but the actual background rules are often overlooked and already let any character for whom it makes sense to be proficient with an herbalism kit for any reason be proficient with one - specifically that the "customizing a background" portion of them is not an optional rule (by which I mean that there is no "assume you can't do this unless the DM has already said you can" quality to it; it just is part of the standard background rules, and a DM saying you can't swap out whatever tool or language a background example lists for an herbalism kit is a DM that has house-ruled how backgrounds work).
In my homebrew rules, where I've introduced specific skills, any character who can take the Medicine skill can choose to be proficient in Healing & Herbalism, which is the same as being proficient in the Herbalism Kit.
Brewing Potions of Healing.Potions of healing fall into a special category for item crafting, separate from other magic items. A character who has proficiency with the herbalism kit can create these potions. The times and costs for doing so are summarized on the Potion of Healing Creation table.
So, "Potions of healing" are a special category for item crafting and don't use the normal magic item rules.
It further states how long each level of potion takes and how much it costs. I'm not pasting the text to that as I assume it's a forum violation but the link above has it.
In my homebrew rules, where I've introduced specific skills, any character who can take the Medicine skill can choose to be proficient in Healing & Herbalism, which is the same as being proficient in the Herbalism Kit.
Based on the books alone, we have Druid class, Hermit background, Skilled feat from the PHB and now with Xanathar, Prodigy feat for Half-elfs, half-orcs, or humans.
Based on the books alone, we have Druid class, Hermit background, Skilled feat from the PHB and now with Xanathar, Prodigy feat for Half-elfs, half-orcs, or humans.
Cool. I'm personally not a fan of the feats system but it's good to know.
There's nothing ambiguous about the wording in the DMG: "Potions of healing fall into a special category for item crafting, separate from other magic items. A character who has proficiency with the herbalism kit can create these potions. The times and costs for doing so are summarized on the Potion of Healing Creation table." Thus, if you have proficiency with the herbalism kit, as any druid does, and you take the time, spend the money, and have an herbalism kit, you can make potions of healing.
Thank you all for your contributions. This thread has died a natural death of old age. Let's not dabble in the dark arts such as necromancy and let it rest in peace.
Thanks again for understanding.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
OK, these kits are new... are they like thieve's picks & tools?
Here's the situation... dude gets poisoned. Player says, "Wait! I have an herbalist kit! The book says I can make antidotes."
I say, "Role." (The problem is I don't know what they're rolling _for_ but I'm the DM. So when I'm stumped, I say, "So, role.")
Help? ... actually I can (and did) 'wing it.' What I wondered is how it's 'supposed' to work. Thanks.
edit: I recommend reading the posts below, before using anything I said in this post.
There's nothing wrong with what you did. :)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/equipment/herbalism-kit
There are two important sentences here:
So, if they have found some herbs, they can use their proficiency bonus in the kit (and suitable stat, probably INT) to determine what the herbs are. They can also do similar (probably with WIS) to apply any beneficial herbs.
Uses for this might include looking for suitable herbs to treat a fever that someone is suffering from, or to stop a wound becoming infected (not really a problem if you have magical healing).
The other sentence is:
This allows the character to create these items, given the appropriate time and ingredients to do so.
The PHB provides further info on creating a healing potion (cost 25 gp and 10 days of time). This is half the purchase price of a potion of healing, which is normally 50 gp. Seems reasonable then that creating an antitoxin would also cost approx half of the purchase price.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Excellent! Thanks. Oh, if I tell him he can create healing potions... I wonder if he'll ever adventure again. (He's a 3rd level Merchant, or should be)
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Well, potions of healing are a bit special since they're the only magic item that the core rules assume is available in every world and can be reliably found and bought at a fixed price. Despite being magic items, the PH treats it like standard adventuring equipment. The magic item rules do say "You are free to adjust the costs to better suit your campaign" so you could always make an exception for potions of healing and say they cost less to produce. The magic item creation costs are pessimistic (the creation cost is the highest price items of that rarity are worth) since being able to create magic items is very powerful.
But I think the current rules are fine. Being able to create potions of healing on demand instead of being tied to availability at larger towns is still extremely useful, despite the lack of discount. Two spellcasters can work together to produce a potion in a single day, and in a sense they're stockpiling unused spell slots for another day.
There's already precedent for items being sold at cost with Holy Water:
Potions of Healing could be similar. Adventurers provide useful services, and they're willing and able to travel to larger towns for potions. It's in a city's best interest to have potions in stock for local adventurers (and the city watch, the army, and the royal guards.) The government could subsidize their production, paying local temples or bard colleges a small amount to sell them to shops at cost.
The shops benefit from this because the potions act as loss leaders; they attract customers that spend money on other profitable items. Selling them at cost also prevents random adventurers from undercutting the local shops, since they'd have to lose money to offer a lower price.
Maybe someone can help me out with this
"This kit contains a variety of instruments such as clippers, mortar and pestle, and pouches and vials used by herbalists to create remedies and potions. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to identify or apply herbs. Also, proficiency with this kit is required to create antitoxin and any potion of healing"
The only people that have proficiency with the kit that I can tell are the Druid class, and the Hermit background. Who the hell is making healing potions in our world??
Using the "training" downtime activity anyone can learn a language or a tool proficiency. So anyone could have proficiency with herbalist kits. Xanathar's guide has more details on creating healing potions.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
In my homebrew rules, where I've introduced specific skills, any character who can take the Medicine skill can choose to be proficient in Healing & Herbalism, which is the same as being proficient in the Herbalism Kit.
I was reading through Downtime activities in XgtE: https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/xgte/dungeon-masters-tools#DowntimeActivities
and it said this:
So, "Potions of healing" are a special category for item crafting and don't use the normal magic item rules.
It further states how long each level of potion takes and how much it costs. I'm not pasting the text to that as I assume it's a forum violation but the link above has it.
Also, the Alchemist UA class can make healing potions. I imagine that it will stay that way whenever we get an official version.
There's nothing ambiguous about the wording in the DMG: "Potions of healing fall into a special category for item crafting, separate from other magic items. A character who has proficiency with the herbalism kit can create these potions. The times and costs for doing so are summarized on the Potion of Healing Creation table." Thus, if you have proficiency with the herbalism kit, as any druid does, and you take the time, spend the money, and have an herbalism kit, you can make potions of healing.
Thank you all for your contributions. This thread has died a natural death of old age. Let's not dabble in the dark arts such as necromancy and let it rest in peace.
Thanks again for understanding.
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