maybe it's just me, but, i cant see how this is a good feature, or useful, at all. I feel like .. it was a cop-out, somehow, or like a space filler cause they ran out of ideas.
Idk, maybe hearing others opinions might justify it for me. I'd like to hear others opinions on it, as well as what anyone can come up with that this feature would actually be useful for.
In my head, why bother with the feature? You can just go buy the tools and have them with you, no need to spend an hour recreating the one you need for a certain situation. And space shouldnt be an issue, not for an Artificer, you can just infuse a bag of holding. And it's not like "Oh ive found myself in a situation where my stuff was taken." Cause you got robbed, or thrown in jail or what-have-you, cause the feature requires you to have tinker tools to be able to do it, but if you've been stripped clean, you dont have them to make the tools you actually need.
Maybe there is something in adventures league(which i dont go to, cant) that would make this more pertinent? Idk, share your thoughts guys ^,^/
This was probably made in response to people’s complains that “Tool required” for casting would even more punitively punish Artificers getting captured and stripped of their items.
EG. 3 party numbers are captured and breakout without recovering their items and are lost in the Forrest surrounding the prison.
The Martial picks up an improvised weapon and gets to use his EA and Str/Dex mod to do 90% of his damage.
The Magic Caster can’t use most of his good spells but might be able to scavenge materials or just rely on Verbal / Somatic spells.
However the Artificer literally needs tools for every cast, and there is zero rules for finding tools in the wild, so will literally have to wait till the next town to use any magic or Infuse anything or even SSI anything.
PS. I think WotC misunderstood our exact complaint because RTftJ still needs Tinkers tools I think, but if I ever DM that I will rule the Tinkers tools contain a sharp rock and a sharp stick.
The Right Tool for the Job - So that you always have the right tool for the job, provided that you already have the right... tool... for the job.
Honestly, I think this is just turning that "you get the tools for free" segment from the Artificer UA subclasses into something of a more broadly applicable feature.
I feel Right Tool for the Job could use an additional caveat, that if you lack Tinker's Tools you could spend 1 hour fashioning nearby materials into improvised Tinker's Tools which thus enables you to magically make the "Right Tool" properly. Those improvised Tinker's Tools would then break or something cause they weren't proper tools.
So tinker's tools on hand? 1 hour to any artisan tool. No tinker's tools on hand? 2 hours to any artisan tool. (Or just 1 hour to tinker's tools).
Or maybe a more generic ability that when improvising something as a tool or one tool as another kind of tool you could apply the appropriate proficiency without the benefit from tool expertise?
But interestingly and the potentially more useful aspect of Right Tool for the Job is just it's ability to make semi-permanent physical objects. Browse the tool descriptions in Xanathar's and looks for specific items in the tool's components that you might be able to make use of.
Running low on alchemical supplies? Get an additional "pouch of common alchemical ingredients." Need a "quantity of hops" or "several feet of tubing?" Spend an hour creating Brewer's Supplies. Need a feather for something? Calligrapher's supplies can get you "three quills" on top of "ink" and "a dozen sheets of parchment." Have an ingrained compulsion, an unquenchable thirst, a dying need to measure the length of something!? Cartographer's supplies can give you a ruler (among other things).
Idea: Take the Alchemy jug as an infusion and each day craft an additional set of alchemist supplies, pour your 8 oz of acid a day into the "two glass beakers" you get from the tool. You now have two "vials" of acid that you didn't even need to buy saving you a grand total of 2g... not... terribly useful.
Another idea: Craft calligrapher's supplies, the ink and the parchment will vanish the next time you use Right Tool for the Job. You can send messages and have all evidence of them disappear when you make different tools later on. Draft up a legally binding contract and have it disappear when it suits you. Further "Though the product of magic, the tools are nonmagical" so there's literally nothing suspicious about this paper or this ink, and do correct me if I'm wrong but I think they'd even work in an anti-magic field.
That makes this feature in some ways better than the Minor Conjuration ability of the Conjuration Wizard (albeit much more limited in what you can create).
How wild. It's a feature that's more useful when it's misused then when used for it's intended purpose.
Right Tool for the Job is a DM-dependent, game-dependent feature.
its first use is ensuring that you're able to make checks. You can, for example, use it to manifest the Carpenter's Tools you don't have proficiency in when your party's wagon breaks down on the road. Without the tools, many DMs wouldn't even permit the roll to try and repair; with the tools, you can make the attempt, even if without proficiency. If your DM is of the sort that often rules that specific tools are required to even attempt certain tasks, or that natural ones break your tools and require you to repair them in town before you can use them again? RTftJ might be helpful.
Its second use is in games that run by variant encumbrance, where carrying around two hundred pounds of toolkits is a no-go. Burning an infusion forever on a bag of holding sucks rocks; yes, we can all do it, no we don't always want to. If you have time, RTftJ can be used to substitute for regular tools you don't have the cargo capacity to cart around. This is especially pertinent when making use of subclass features that specifically mandate a given set of tools before you can do stuff, such as repairing the Steel Defender or creating your Wild Chemistry shitflask for the day.
It's not an amazing feature, and the tinker's tools requirement is aggravating, but there's edge situations where it may be handy to have.
lol, thieves tools aren't artisan tools. Also as a DM and you're trying to fix something with tools you're not proficient in I'm going to make you do it with disadvantage. The reason being is if you don't know what you're doing with tools you've never used you're not going to be able to do it properly.
Even a roll with disadvantage is better than "you don't have the tools needed to try and make the repair", though. And any DM who says the artificer can't replace their thieves' tools with RTftJ, at need, is either a bad DM or too up AL's butt to make their own decisions.
Haven't read the other posts yet, as I wanted to get my thoughts out of my head before reading others. TLDR: DOnt' think its worth much in the current state. 1 hour is very long when you need tools. Additionally it requires tools to make tools- so it can't save you when you lose all your items/tools break etc. I wish it had two options: 1) 1min to create Tinker tools-completly magically out of scraps around you, they l ast for 1hr or LV/2 (min1)hours. 2) Spend 1 hour with tinkertools to make Any tools (not just artisen, also thieves tools, etc) . When done this way, gain profieicny in said Tools until you use this ability again. (I'd also accept the current 1hour version, if you also gained a "jack of all trades" profiency to all tool skills bonus)
For me, I was 90% certain it gave you a profiency bonus on command for a tool kit. I originally saw preview teasers and assumed it would take 1min or an action for a tool on command. Which, would've felt fine to me. Its quick, instant tools. That's not too bad, not amazing but not too bad.
Then I heard it was 1 hour, and that you used tinkerer stuff to build it and make those tools. My brain asssumed, that during this proccess you would end up with temporary profiency in the tools you made. Which-to me-made it worth it, flavorful, not overly powerful. and really helped the lack of Profiencies in tools-despite being the tool guy-class. It felt pretty perfect if it gave you profiencies in tools and the tools, on command, at the cost of a short rest. Not really much different than short rest recovery spell slots on Warlocks, or various focusing stuff during short rests.
that felt thematic, and useful.
But i realized that I was wrong and that I read into it too far..
1 hour, for just a set of tools with no other benefit don't feel worthwhile, or fun. It doesn't allow you to randomly solve a problem. Nor is it fast enough for you to create your friend the tools they needed- because it got destroyed mid dungeon. Or they were working on a trap, it went off, and acid destroyed their tools. etc.
Bards,at a level earlier, get Jack of All trades, --profiency bonus on all ability checks if they don't have them. Thats most if not all skills right? (Though I"m not sure if that works on tool checks. Feel like they would given that you add your ability score to those rolls). So, I feel like profiency in all tools. OR. 1hour to create a tool+profiency, WITH the option of making it in 1min without the proficiency (like you already had it or giving it to a ally etc). Would have made this ability quit worth it, flavorful, pretty balanced. requiring tinnker's tools really rather prevents the abilty (even with the quick option) doing a lot of things already. If they're magically created I really do wish you could make them just out of magic-even if they lasted shorter time period or something. That way you could create tools to esecape capture (unlock them doors + magic focus!). Also. the class itself requires a Tool Focus (or normal focus) to cast spells. So requiring tools, to make tools, is painful. As it really limits really fun flavorful ways of doing things--such as the escaping capture example. Sure wizards would also get screwed-but they're wizards their quite a lot of power behind them. But sorcerers and other casters, well the next morning after being captured they could presumably still cast.
@yurei1453 wow, you must be a joy of a player. Though at that point why not just make artficer's make all tools. Don't really see anything wrong with that, make a poisoners kit, forgery kit or maybe a healer's kit (though healer's kit isn't tools.) I'm pretty sure they specified artisan tools because artificers are already proficiency in the thieves tools and they probably thought having an infinite to tries to pick a lock is broken. My opinion of this feat is that it's not really worth much. Like some other's said just buy the things that you need, but unfortunately that's my problem with the class in general. A lot of their things that you can infuse or make you can pretty much buy which i think cheapens the class a bit. .
Heh. I mean, if a DM is going to go out of their way to decry and devalue a feature, then yes - that feature is going to be worthless. Telling an artificer "you can't make anything but artisan's tools, those artisan's tools cannot be used for anything you'd normally use tools for, and I'm not going to give you opportunities to use tools anyways" does, indeed, mean they won't get value out of Right Tool for the Job. They also won't get value out of being an artificer. I'd also note that DMs who break their players' tools on a critical failure are, themselves, stepping outside the bounds of Legal AL Real-D&D rules - nothing in the rulebook says that a failed thieves' tools attempt destroys the tools, so the common "your picks break, you need to find a new kit back in town" punishment for wiffing a pick attempt is just as 'joy of a player' horsepoo as is allowing artificers to create a temporary set of the one tool kit they actually start with, if for some reason they need it.
Is it a great feature? Nah. The tinker's tools requirement means it can't be used to whip up your necessary casting foci if you're stripped of your gear, and the hour-long prep time means it's not terribly responsive. But there are cases where it might be handy, if not a game-winning clutch ability. Like I said, tables that run with variant encumbrance might appreciate the option of producing toolkits they can freely abandon, and it's a means of ensuring that any given artificer subclass (provided it has its tinker's tools) can always have the specific toolkit it needs to access its subclass-specific abilities.
I'd also note that DMs who break their players' tools on a critical failure are, themselves, stepping outside the bounds of Legal AL Real-D&D rules - nothing in the rulebook says that a failed thieves' tools attempt destroys the tools, so the common "your picks break, you need to find a new kit back in town" punishment for wiffing a pick attempt....
Technically Nat 1s and 20s only count as Crits in combat. If a DM houserules that Nat 20s count as a Crit Success all of the time, then ruling that a Nat 1 counting as a Crit Failure (broken tool) is not entirely outside of the realms of balance. As long as everyone at the table knows and agrees to these houserules in advance, I see no problem with it.
Not letting an Artificer use a class feature on the other hand.... Might as well tell the Rogue there’s no Expertise, or a Wizard there is no Arcane Recovery, or a Fighter there is no Second Wind.
Heh. That was in specific response to Mythos, who gave me sass over saying an artificer should be able to RTftJ themselves a set of thieves' tools. His whole "infinite tries to pick a lock is broken" only really makes sense if he's one of those who enjoys breaking his players' tools if they flub a lockpick check. otherwise an artificer with thieves' tools can already take as long as they like because tools only break in a houseruled game.
Gotcha. I thought the entire point of RTftJ was so they could make what they need. Can't they use their Tools, Including Thieve's Tools to Cast Spells? Wouldn't those be the RTfthoseJobs? Besides:
Artisan’s Tools. These special tools include the items needed to pursue a craft or trade. The table shows examples of the most common types of tools, each providing items related to a single craft. Proficiency with a set of artisan’s tools lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make using the toolsin your craft. Each type of artisan’s tools requires a separate proficiency.
Thieves’ Tools. This set of tools includes a small file, a set of lock picks, a small mirror mounted on a metal handle, a set of narrow-bladed scissors, and a pair of pliers. Proficiency with these tools lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to disarm traps or open locks.
One could make everything I underlined out of bits and pieces combined from anything in red text (and probably the others as well). When an Artificer makes some tools, is it all in a packet like a video game drop? Or is it more the Artificer thinking: "I'm going to need a small file, various bits of differently shaped metal, a small mirror on a metal handle, a set of narrow-bladed scissores, and a pair of pliers." and then making what they need?
Relatively certain its "the whole pack' at once. Not individualpieces of the packs. So you couldn't use the abiltiy to adhoc make thieves tools. You'd have to make one out of tinkerer I guess? I don't really know how straight up crafting works. Since the ability calls out making " one set" rather than just stating tools
Relatively certain its "the whole pack' at once. Not individualpieces of the packs. So you couldn't use the abiltiy to adhoc make thieves tools. You'd have to make one out of tinkerer I guess? I don't really know how straight up crafting works. Since the ability calls out making " one set" rather than just stating tools
Lemme get this straight. Do you mean to tell me that there is an entire Class out there who’s entire shtick is that they know how/can figure out how to make almost anything, and that they can even figure out how to make the things they need to make almost anything. But that if one of those Characters needed the tools collected under “Thieves’ Tools” and they started with Tinker’s Tools to make: the small file, the various bits of differently shaped metal, the small mirror on a metal handle, and the pair of pliers, but instead of just making the scissors that they actually need they would say “won’t have time to make those thar scissors, gotta finish makin’ alla these here hammers, an’ mallets, an’ wrenches, an’ all this here other junk I don’t need. Wouldn’t have time to make an entire set of Weaver’s Tools too, what with the loom an’ shuttle an’ all just because I needs me some skinny li’l scissors.”
We should make an example out of any DM who says that by dragging them out in the middle of a tournament and whipping them to embarrassment with licorice rope so all of those unimaginative rules lawyers in the AL can see.
This is a tabletop role playing game, not an MMORPG!!!
Nice idea with the using it to make resources via the kits, like extra vials, non-magical paper that can vanish, etc etc. Be cool to have an Artificer who is no different than a demon and their love of deals, using deals and contracts(and the eventual disappearance of those contracts) to mess with people that way and get your way lol
? Did I misunderstand your original prompt? I thought you wre originally saying "because this ability lets me make these tools with 1 hour. Why can't i make portions of these X number of tools, instead, to make something that resembles the thieves tools" To which my answer was, RAW, the ability only lets you create 1 specific item, not portions of various items. Did I understand your original intent there?
Or----If you meant use tinkerer item to make smaller items, and nothing to do with the actual Right Tool ability.. then yeah you could just make the individual scraps. That's just norma Tinker Tools situation (whether those tools are made from Right tool or not. though would be odd considering it requires the tool in the first place-Though I could see a g m l et you scrape together a low quailty tinker set to make a standard one with Right Tool)
Assuming the former. I won't fault a GM who doesn't let you make small portions of multitude of different items with the ability that only lets you make one item. Since, its strictly used to do one explict thing. (if I'm a GM i'm already altering this ability in ways I mentioned in a previous post with the two options)
I've almost never seen someone use artisan's tools in an actual game. I mean, I've seen people use Thieves' Tools, but Cobbler's? Uh uh. Not once.
Along those lines, ever since they released the February 2019 UA Artificer, I've been looking for ways to sneak in Tools and a wider variety of Skills into the games I DM. I think it's more fun when you get to use every facet of your character, not just the combat portions. :)
Almost all tools aren't going to be utilized with the exception of thieves tools. From what I have seen almost no one uses any types of tools (mostly because at a certain point they are going to be useless because of spellcasting.) The second most tools that should be used is the smithing tools but I've never seen anyone but myself use them. I've also almost never see anyone do crafting mostly because when adventurers get enough money it becomes why bother with the crafting when we can just straight buy the things that we want (which is what I think is one of the weaker points of the artificer).
I would love to see someone use cobbler's tools to make magical shoes. Like increase someone's walking speed, improve their jump or climbing capabilities, or hide a weapon in the shoe. An artificer dedicated to the craft of footwear sounds fun.
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maybe it's just me, but, i cant see how this is a good feature, or useful, at all. I feel like .. it was a cop-out, somehow, or like a space filler cause they ran out of ideas.
Idk, maybe hearing others opinions might justify it for me. I'd like to hear others opinions on it, as well as what anyone can come up with that this feature would actually be useful for.
In my head, why bother with the feature? You can just go buy the tools and have them with you, no need to spend an hour recreating the one you need for a certain situation. And space shouldnt be an issue, not for an Artificer, you can just infuse a bag of holding. And it's not like "Oh ive found myself in a situation where my stuff was taken." Cause you got robbed, or thrown in jail or what-have-you, cause the feature requires you to have tinker tools to be able to do it, but if you've been stripped clean, you dont have them to make the tools you actually need.
Maybe there is something in adventures league(which i dont go to, cant) that would make this more pertinent? Idk, share your thoughts guys ^,^/
This was probably made in response to people’s complains that “Tool required” for casting would even more punitively punish Artificers getting captured and stripped of their items.
EG. 3 party numbers are captured and breakout without recovering their items and are lost in the Forrest surrounding the prison.
The Martial picks up an improvised weapon and gets to use his EA and Str/Dex mod to do 90% of his damage.
The Magic Caster can’t use most of his good spells but might be able to scavenge materials or just rely on Verbal / Somatic spells.
However the Artificer literally needs tools for every cast, and there is zero rules for finding tools in the wild, so will literally have to wait till the next town to use any magic or Infuse anything or even SSI anything.
PS. I think WotC misunderstood our exact complaint because RTftJ still needs Tinkers tools I think, but if I ever DM that I will rule the Tinkers tools contain a sharp rock and a sharp stick.
The Right Tool for the Job - So that you always have the right tool for the job, provided that you already have the right... tool... for the job.
Honestly, I think this is just turning that "you get the tools for free" segment from the Artificer UA subclasses into something of a more broadly applicable feature.
I feel Right Tool for the Job could use an additional caveat, that if you lack Tinker's Tools you could spend 1 hour fashioning nearby materials into improvised Tinker's Tools which thus enables you to magically make the "Right Tool" properly. Those improvised Tinker's Tools would then break or something cause they weren't proper tools.
So tinker's tools on hand? 1 hour to any artisan tool.
No tinker's tools on hand? 2 hours to any artisan tool. (Or just 1 hour to tinker's tools).
Or maybe a more generic ability that when improvising something as a tool or one tool as another kind of tool you could apply the appropriate proficiency without the benefit from tool expertise?
But interestingly and the potentially more useful aspect of Right Tool for the Job is just it's ability to make semi-permanent physical objects. Browse the tool descriptions in Xanathar's and looks for specific items in the tool's components that you might be able to make use of.
Running low on alchemical supplies? Get an additional "pouch of common alchemical ingredients."
Need a "quantity of hops" or "several feet of tubing?" Spend an hour creating Brewer's Supplies.
Need a feather for something? Calligrapher's supplies can get you "three quills" on top of "ink" and "a dozen sheets of parchment."
Have an ingrained compulsion, an unquenchable thirst, a dying need to measure the length of something!? Cartographer's supplies can give you a ruler (among other things).
Idea: Take the Alchemy jug as an infusion and each day craft an additional set of alchemist supplies, pour your 8 oz of acid a day into the "two glass beakers" you get from the tool. You now have two "vials" of acid that you didn't even need to buy saving you a grand total of 2g... not... terribly useful.
Another idea: Craft calligrapher's supplies, the ink and the parchment will vanish the next time you use Right Tool for the Job. You can send messages and have all evidence of them disappear when you make different tools later on. Draft up a legally binding contract and have it disappear when it suits you. Further "Though the product of magic, the tools are nonmagical" so there's literally nothing suspicious about this paper or this ink, and do correct me if I'm wrong but I think they'd even work in an anti-magic field.
That makes this feature in some ways better than the Minor Conjuration ability of the Conjuration Wizard (albeit much more limited in what you can create).
How wild. It's a feature that's more useful when it's misused then when used for it's intended purpose.
Right Tool for the Job is a DM-dependent, game-dependent feature.
its first use is ensuring that you're able to make checks. You can, for example, use it to manifest the Carpenter's Tools you don't have proficiency in when your party's wagon breaks down on the road. Without the tools, many DMs wouldn't even permit the roll to try and repair; with the tools, you can make the attempt, even if without proficiency. If your DM is of the sort that often rules that specific tools are required to even attempt certain tasks, or that natural ones break your tools and require you to repair them in town before you can use them again? RTftJ might be helpful.
Its second use is in games that run by variant encumbrance, where carrying around two hundred pounds of toolkits is a no-go. Burning an infusion forever on a bag of holding sucks rocks; yes, we can all do it, no we don't always want to. If you have time, RTftJ can be used to substitute for regular tools you don't have the cargo capacity to cart around. This is especially pertinent when making use of subclass features that specifically mandate a given set of tools before you can do stuff, such as repairing the Steel Defender or creating your Wild Chemistry shitflask for the day.
It's not an amazing feature, and the tinker's tools requirement is aggravating, but there's edge situations where it may be handy to have.
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My current DM likes to break thieves' tools for some reason, being able to recreate them would be very convenient.
lol, thieves tools aren't artisan tools. Also as a DM and you're trying to fix something with tools you're not proficient in I'm going to make you do it with disadvantage. The reason being is if you don't know what you're doing with tools you've never used you're not going to be able to do it properly.
Even a roll with disadvantage is better than "you don't have the tools needed to try and make the repair", though. And any DM who says the artificer can't replace their thieves' tools with RTftJ, at need, is either a bad DM or too up AL's butt to make their own decisions.
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Haven't read the other posts yet, as I wanted to get my thoughts out of my head before reading others.
TLDR: DOnt' think its worth much in the current state. 1 hour is very long when you need tools. Additionally it requires tools to make tools- so it can't save you when you lose all your items/tools break etc.
I wish it had two options: 1) 1min to create Tinker tools-completly magically out of scraps around you, they l ast for 1hr or LV/2 (min1)hours. 2) Spend 1 hour with tinkertools to make Any tools (not just artisen, also thieves tools, etc) . When done this way, gain profieicny in said Tools until you use this ability again.
(I'd also accept the current 1hour version, if you also gained a "jack of all trades" profiency to all tool skills bonus)
For me, I was 90% certain it gave you a profiency bonus on command for a tool kit. I originally saw preview teasers and assumed it would take 1min or an action for a tool on command. Which, would've felt fine to me. Its quick, instant tools. That's not too bad, not amazing but not too bad.
Then I heard it was 1 hour, and that you used tinkerer stuff to build it and make those tools. My brain asssumed, that during this proccess you would end up with temporary profiency in the tools you made. Which-to me-made it worth it, flavorful, not overly powerful. and really helped the lack of Profiencies in tools-despite being the tool guy-class. It felt pretty perfect if it gave you profiencies in tools and the tools, on command, at the cost of a short rest. Not really much different than short rest recovery spell slots on Warlocks, or various focusing stuff during short rests.
that felt thematic, and useful.
But i realized that I was wrong and that I read into it too far..
1 hour, for just a set of tools with no other benefit don't feel worthwhile, or fun. It doesn't allow you to randomly solve a problem. Nor is it fast enough for you to create your friend the tools they needed- because it got destroyed mid dungeon. Or they were working on a trap, it went off, and acid destroyed their tools. etc.
Bards,at a level earlier, get Jack of All trades, --profiency bonus on all ability checks if they don't have them. Thats most if not all skills right? (Though I"m not sure if that works on tool checks. Feel like they would given that you add your ability score to those rolls).
So, I feel like profiency in all tools. OR. 1hour to create a tool+profiency, WITH the option of making it in 1min without the proficiency (like you already had it or giving it to a ally etc). Would have made this ability quit worth it, flavorful, pretty balanced.
requiring tinnker's tools really rather prevents the abilty (even with the quick option) doing a lot of things already. If they're magically created I really do wish you could make them just out of magic-even if they lasted shorter time period or something. That way you could create tools to esecape capture (unlock them doors + magic focus!).
Also. the class itself requires a Tool Focus (or normal focus) to cast spells. So requiring tools, to make tools, is painful. As it really limits really fun flavorful ways of doing things--such as the escaping capture example. Sure wizards would also get screwed-but they're wizards their quite a lot of power behind them. But sorcerers and other casters, well the next morning after being captured they could presumably still cast.
@yurei1453 wow, you must be a joy of a player. Though at that point why not just make artficer's make all tools. Don't really see anything wrong with that, make a poisoners kit, forgery kit or maybe a healer's kit (though healer's kit isn't tools.) I'm pretty sure they specified artisan tools because artificers are already proficiency in the thieves tools and they probably thought having an infinite to tries to pick a lock is broken. My opinion of this feat is that it's not really worth much. Like some other's said just buy the things that you need, but unfortunately that's my problem with the class in general. A lot of their things that you can infuse or make you can pretty much buy which i think cheapens the class a bit. .
Heh. I mean, if a DM is going to go out of their way to decry and devalue a feature, then yes - that feature is going to be worthless. Telling an artificer "you can't make anything but artisan's tools, those artisan's tools cannot be used for anything you'd normally use tools for, and I'm not going to give you opportunities to use tools anyways" does, indeed, mean they won't get value out of Right Tool for the Job. They also won't get value out of being an artificer. I'd also note that DMs who break their players' tools on a critical failure are, themselves, stepping outside the bounds of Legal AL Real-D&D rules - nothing in the rulebook says that a failed thieves' tools attempt destroys the tools, so the common "your picks break, you need to find a new kit back in town" punishment for wiffing a pick attempt is just as 'joy of a player' horsepoo as is allowing artificers to create a temporary set of the one tool kit they actually start with, if for some reason they need it.
Is it a great feature? Nah. The tinker's tools requirement means it can't be used to whip up your necessary casting foci if you're stripped of your gear, and the hour-long prep time means it's not terribly responsive. But there are cases where it might be handy, if not a game-winning clutch ability. Like I said, tables that run with variant encumbrance might appreciate the option of producing toolkits they can freely abandon, and it's a means of ensuring that any given artificer subclass (provided it has its tinker's tools) can always have the specific toolkit it needs to access its subclass-specific abilities.
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Technically Nat 1s and 20s only count as Crits in combat. If a DM houserules that Nat 20s count as a Crit Success all of the time, then ruling that a Nat 1 counting as a Crit Failure (broken tool) is not entirely outside of the realms of balance. As long as everyone at the table knows and agrees to these houserules in advance, I see no problem with it.
Not letting an Artificer use a class feature on the other hand.... Might as well tell the Rogue there’s no Expertise, or a Wizard there is no Arcane Recovery, or a Fighter there is no Second Wind.
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Heh. That was in specific response to Mythos, who gave me sass over saying an artificer should be able to RTftJ themselves a set of thieves' tools. His whole "infinite tries to pick a lock is broken" only really makes sense if he's one of those who enjoys breaking his players' tools if they flub a lockpick check. otherwise an artificer with thieves' tools can already take as long as they like because tools only break in a houseruled game.
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Gotcha. I thought the entire point of RTftJ was so they could make what they need. Can't they use their Tools, Including Thieve's Tools to Cast Spells? Wouldn't those be the RTfthoseJobs? Besides:
Artisan’s Tools. These special tools include the items needed to pursue a craft or trade. The table shows examples of the most common types of tools, each providing items related to a single craft. Proficiency with a set of artisan’s tools lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make using the toolsin your craft. Each type of artisan’s tools requires a separate proficiency.
Artisan’s tools Alchemist’s supplies, Brewer’s supplies, Calligrapher's supplies, Carpenter’s tools, Cartographer’s tools, Cobbler’s tools, Cook’s utensils, Glassblower’s tools, Jeweler’s tools, Leatherworker’s tools, Mason’s tools, Painter’s supplies, Potter’s tools, Smith’s tools, Tinker’s tools, Weaver’s tools, Woodcarver's tools
Thieves’ Tools. This set of tools includes a small file, a set of lock picks, a small mirror mounted on a metal handle, a set of narrow-bladed scissors, and a pair of pliers. Proficiency with these tools lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to disarm traps or open locks.
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Relatively certain its "the whole pack' at once. Not individualpieces of the packs. So you couldn't use the abiltiy to adhoc make thieves tools. You'd have to make one out of tinkerer I guess? I don't really know how straight up crafting works. Since the ability calls out making " one set" rather than just stating tools
Lemme get this straight. Do you mean to tell me that there is an entire Class out there who’s entire shtick is that they know how/can figure out how to make almost anything, and that they can even figure out how to make the things they need to make almost anything. But that if one of those Characters needed the tools collected under “Thieves’ Tools” and they started with Tinker’s Tools to make: the small file, the various bits of differently shaped metal, the small mirror on a metal handle, and the pair of pliers, but instead of just making the scissors that they actually need they would say “won’t have time to make those thar scissors, gotta finish makin’ alla these here hammers, an’ mallets, an’ wrenches, an’ all this here other junk I don’t need. Wouldn’t have time to make an entire set of Weaver’s Tools too, what with the loom an’ shuttle an’ all just because I needs me some skinny li’l scissors.”
We should make an example out of any DM who says that by dragging them out in the middle of a tournament and whipping them to embarrassment with licorice rope so all of those unimaginative rules lawyers in the AL can see.
This is a tabletop role playing game, not an MMORPG!!!
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Like all these posts so far. It's nice to see everyones opinions, also glad im not alone in the ... eh? of RTftJ lol
Someone even posted a use of it i couldnt think of that could be pretty genius for the right char concept
@Unclevertitle
Nice idea with the using it to make resources via the kits, like extra vials, non-magical paper that can vanish, etc etc. Be cool to have an Artificer who is no different than a demon and their love of deals, using deals and contracts(and the eventual disappearance of those contracts) to mess with people that way and get your way lol
? Did I misunderstand your original prompt? I thought you wre originally saying
"because this ability lets me make these tools with 1 hour.
Why can't i make portions of these X number of tools, instead, to make something that resembles the thieves tools"
To which my answer was, RAW, the ability only lets you create 1 specific item, not portions of various items.
Did I understand your original intent there?
Or----If you meant use tinkerer item to make smaller items, and nothing to do with the actual Right Tool ability.. then yeah you could just make the individual scraps. That's just norma Tinker Tools situation (whether those tools are made from Right tool or not. though would be odd considering it requires the tool in the first place-Though I could see a g m l et you scrape together a low quailty tinker set to make a standard one with Right Tool)
Assuming the former. I won't fault a GM who doesn't let you make small portions of multitude of different items with the ability that only lets you make one item. Since, its strictly used to do one explict thing.
(if I'm a GM i'm already altering this ability in ways I mentioned in a previous post with the two options)
Rarely in 5e do I see situations where RAW and RAI are not the same once one reexamines the wording. This is one where I think someone messed up.
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I've almost never seen someone use artisan's tools in an actual game. I mean, I've seen people use Thieves' Tools, but Cobbler's? Uh uh. Not once.
Along those lines, ever since they released the February 2019 UA Artificer, I've been looking for ways to sneak in Tools and a wider variety of Skills into the games I DM. I think it's more fun when you get to use every facet of your character, not just the combat portions. :)
Almost all tools aren't going to be utilized with the exception of thieves tools. From what I have seen almost no one uses any types of tools (mostly because at a certain point they are going to be useless because of spellcasting.) The second most tools that should be used is the smithing tools but I've never seen anyone but myself use them. I've also almost never see anyone do crafting mostly because when adventurers get enough money it becomes why bother with the crafting when we can just straight buy the things that we want (which is what I think is one of the weaker points of the artificer).
I would love to see someone use cobbler's tools to make magical shoes. Like increase someone's walking speed, improve their jump or climbing capabilities, or hide a weapon in the shoe. An artificer dedicated to the craft of footwear sounds fun.