Whenever barbarians come up in conversation with my friends, which is rare to be honest, Path of the Beserker is never brought up. When I asked why it was never considered, one of my friends has professed that he sees getting a level of exhaustion from their 3rd level ability is too much of a detriment to balance the benefit of getting an attack for your bonus action (even if you effectively have extra attack at 3rd level while raging). Of course, the other sentiment was that Path of the Totem Warrior was simply better.
Do you guys have or have seen love for Path of the Beserker? Or is it actually not that great?
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A professional engineer and amateur writer who has played D&D since 2015 (started with 5e) and has been a DM more than a player. When I'm not playing god I'm usually your friendly neighborhood rogue.
I personally love it, though I agree that the mechanics for Totem Warrior may be better, I think Berserker is more fun to RP.
If you want to see some love to berserker, there is a character on Critical Role that chose this path, and he's adored by everyone and super effective in combat.
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If you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer. Maybe even throw in a heroic death.
Totem has a lot more it can do outside combat (an Outlander with totem rituals can basically out-Ranger a PHB Ranger) while still being mechanically strong, not to mention offering lots more choice within the subclass. And the 'Zerker exhaustion is hard to work around - Frenzy is great in "boss battles" but awful for any situation where you don't get to long rest afterward. This is compounded by both the difficulty of reducing exhaustion levels (between long rests, your only option is Greater Restoration) and the brutal nature of even one level of exhaustion. Also, until you get Persistent Rage, a clever foe can figure out ways to end your Frenzy (though Mindless Rage does help mitigate this a bit), putting you even more awkwardly off-foot than if you were simply Raging.
The Berserker has some really nice abilities later on (Retaliation!), but its defining feature carries such a heavy drawback that I think most people simply default to Totem, which carries lots of versatile benefits. Berserker is still totally workable (especially with some gentle house-ruling).
I personally love it, though I agree that the mechanics for Totem Warrior may be better, I think Berserker is more fun to RP.
If you want to see some love to berserker, there is a character on Critical Role that chose this path, and he's adored by everyone and super effective in combat.
Grog is the best! He's one of the reasons I want to defeat this stigma that's been built in my head toward the beserker.
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A professional engineer and amateur writer who has played D&D since 2015 (started with 5e) and has been a DM more than a player. When I'm not playing god I'm usually your friendly neighborhood rogue.
And the 'Zerker exhaustion is hard to work around - Frenzy is great in "boss battles" but awful for any situation where you don't get to long rest afterward. This is compounded by both the difficulty of reducing exhaustion levels (between long rests, your only option is Greater Restoration) and the brutal nature of even one level of exhaustion. Also, until you get Persistent Rage, a clever foe can figure out ways to end your Frenzy (though Mindless Rage does help mitigate this a bit), putting you even more awkwardly off-foot than if you were simply Raging.
The only thing I've been able to come up with is that the advantage on Strength ability checks while raging offsets the first level. It isn't much, especially since that means "oh, you don't have advantage or disadvantage to grapple/shove", and that's assuming you don't rage to ensure you make a long jump or something.
A professional engineer and amateur writer who has played D&D since 2015 (started with 5e) and has been a DM more than a player. When I'm not playing god I'm usually your friendly neighborhood rogue.
Barbarian, to me, is the risk-taker class. These bad boys don't even wear armour. Berserker is the epitome of that mindset - recklessly rushing into battle heedless of the consequence. Massive risk, massive reward. That's how I view Frenzied Rage.
The exhaustion is bad, true, but the benefit before it triggers is excellent. Remember you get to choose when it's just Rage, and when it's Frenzied - you would save the Frenzied for a big fight and hope to keep raging until it was over, with the hope of resting soon after.
I think the problem is twofold: Bear Totem is too good, and Frenzy causing exhaustion is too bad. If it was one or the other, more people would consider a different option. However, the delta between the two positions is just so stark that it's off-putting. I played a Battlerager and people just assumed I had resistance to all damage(except psychic), since Bear totem was basically the default option.
I agree! The PC needs a sense of when frenzy is really needed and when it's not.
Myself never played or saw a Barb-Totem Warrior. What do you see as the strongest Attunement? I just looked it up and spontaneously I would choose:
Level 3: Bear (resist for all except psychic dmg)
Level 6: Eagle (see up to 1 mile without difficulty)
Level 14: Eagle (Fly for the duration of your turn while raging)
What would you choose?
Level 3 really depends on party composition. If your party already has a tank, Eagle at level 3 is great for bombing your way through enemy frontlines to wreck the backlines. Wolf is likewise awesome, but only if you have a couple other melee pals. But most will probably just pick Bear and call it a day.
Level 6 mostly comes down to your DM - many of whom don't use encumbrance to any great degree, forget about the dim lighting rules, and rarely require much in the way of tracking.
I really think you can't go wrong at Level 14. I might give the edge to Eagle just because a lot of foes at this tier will be Huge and immune to Fear, whereas flying is frequently useful to have.
It's worth noting that the flavour text does gently suggest against mixing and matching your totem, though, in which case I'd probably go Wolf personally, since it feels the most balanced. Honestly, I think they did a great job with the Totem Barb overall.
A barbarian in a campaign of mine Frenzied, and used a dagger +1 as his only weapon, and as a result of those two choices tore right through a demon in just 3 rounds.
All for the cost of a level of exhaustion.
So yeah, I think the berserker path is just fine, because the game doesn't actually need a character to be anywhere near the "best" as far as damage-dealing potential and all that character optimization jazz in order for the character to be absolutely bad-ass.
We use a homebrew alteration of the Berserker path that lightly changes it to fix its problems, it's been rather good in play so far and keeps up with all of the other characters, including a totem barbarian. Berzerkers aren't my personal cup of tea though, I like my Barbarians as warriors with just a touch of the mystical, so totem warrior, zealot, and ancestral are all more appealing to my mind.
There is only two things with Path of the Berserker that I find "bad". The first is that the level 3 frenzy ability is completely overshadowed by feats like Polearm or Great Weapon Master. Why risk exhaustion and neuter yourself outside of combat with disadvantage on all your skill checks when you can pick variant human (or pick up one of these phenomenal feats one level later) and still get a bonus action attack? Playing in a feat-less game would make Frenzy a lot more viable of an option. The second is that 3rd level bear totem is just oppressively good from a mechanics standpoint. Resistance on everything except psychic, a damage type that doesn't rear its head to often in the campaign books or in a lot of stories. Yes please. This single ability is a shining star of the level 3 Barbarian, and I have very rarely seen people pick anything other than that. In my opinion, level 3 bear totem needs to be toned down.
My suggestions would be if you wanted to remove exhaustion:
Make it a number of times per long rest equal to Constitution modifier. (Similar to War Priest)
Incapacitated for a round.
If you use X action. Attack, Dash, Ready.
But I will stress that exhaustion isn't nearly as penalizing as people think it is. You might accrue about two levels of exhaustion before you take a long rest. The problem is that it is one of the few abilities that penalizes you rather than just limits.
The adventuring group with a Berserker barbarian could always buy a wagon for the barbarian to sleep in while travelling, so he/she can recover from Frenzy but not slow down the party.
An extra attack as a bonus action doesn't seem like a very good tradeoff, but combine that with reckless attack. 2 attacks with your greataxe with advantage? That's 1d12+str+2 damage w/ advantage on both attacks at lvl 3. If you wind up with an 18 str due to sweet rolls, you can do up to 36 damage in one turn. More if either of those attacks crit which is a higher possibility when you're attacking at advantage. More still if you're a half-orc and crit. So if you manage to crit both attacks and roll max damage on everything while being a half-orc, you deal 84 damage in one turn. That's pretty damn strong for lvl 3, even with the lvl of exhaustion.
Whenever barbarians come up in conversation with my friends, which is rare to be honest, Path of the Beserker is never brought up. When I asked why it was never considered, one of my friends has professed that he sees getting a level of exhaustion from their 3rd level ability is too much of a detriment to balance the benefit of getting an attack for your bonus action (even if you effectively have extra attack at 3rd level while raging). Of course, the other sentiment was that Path of the Totem Warrior was simply better.
Do you guys have or have seen love for Path of the Beserker? Or is it actually not that great?
A professional engineer and amateur writer who has played D&D since 2015 (started with 5e) and has been a DM more than a player. When I'm not playing god I'm usually your friendly neighborhood rogue.
I personally love it, though I agree that the mechanics for Totem Warrior may be better, I think Berserker is more fun to RP.
If you want to see some love to berserker, there is a character on Critical Role that chose this path, and he's adored by everyone and super effective in combat.
If you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer. Maybe even throw in a heroic death.
Totem has a lot more it can do outside combat (an Outlander with totem rituals can basically out-Ranger a PHB Ranger) while still being mechanically strong, not to mention offering lots more choice within the subclass. And the 'Zerker exhaustion is hard to work around - Frenzy is great in "boss battles" but awful for any situation where you don't get to long rest afterward. This is compounded by both the difficulty of reducing exhaustion levels (between long rests, your only option is Greater Restoration) and the brutal nature of even one level of exhaustion. Also, until you get Persistent Rage, a clever foe can figure out ways to end your Frenzy (though Mindless Rage does help mitigate this a bit), putting you even more awkwardly off-foot than if you were simply Raging.
The Berserker has some really nice abilities later on (Retaliation!), but its defining feature carries such a heavy drawback that I think most people simply default to Totem, which carries lots of versatile benefits. Berserker is still totally workable (especially with some gentle house-ruling).
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
A professional engineer and amateur writer who has played D&D since 2015 (started with 5e) and has been a DM more than a player. When I'm not playing god I'm usually your friendly neighborhood rogue.
A professional engineer and amateur writer who has played D&D since 2015 (started with 5e) and has been a DM more than a player. When I'm not playing god I'm usually your friendly neighborhood rogue.
Barbarian, to me, is the risk-taker class. These bad boys don't even wear armour. Berserker is the epitome of that mindset - recklessly rushing into battle heedless of the consequence. Massive risk, massive reward. That's how I view Frenzied Rage.
The exhaustion is bad, true, but the benefit before it triggers is excellent. Remember you get to choose when it's just Rage, and when it's Frenzied - you would save the Frenzied for a big fight and hope to keep raging until it was over, with the hope of resting soon after.
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My homebrew: [Subclasses] [Races] [Feats] [Discussion Thread]
I think the problem is twofold: Bear Totem is too good, and Frenzy causing exhaustion is too bad. If it was one or the other, more people would consider a different option. However, the delta between the two positions is just so stark that it's off-putting. I played a Battlerager and people just assumed I had resistance to all damage(except psychic), since Bear totem was basically the default option.
I agree! The PC needs a sense of when frenzy is really needed and when it's not.
Myself never played or saw a Barb-Totem Warrior. What do you see as the strongest Attunement? I just looked it up and spontaneously I would choose:
What would you choose?
For me, it's about RP. If I'm playing an old solder with anger issues, I can bring myself to be a bear.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
if you don't play with feats or multiclass, Frenzy isn't that bad, since you don't have nothing to do with your bonus action (isn't good neither).
If you start at high level barbarian, berserker is nice, mindless rage and retaliation make worth the useless lvl 3 feature.
A barbarian in a campaign of mine Frenzied, and used a dagger +1 as his only weapon, and as a result of those two choices tore right through a demon in just 3 rounds.
All for the cost of a level of exhaustion.
So yeah, I think the berserker path is just fine, because the game doesn't actually need a character to be anywhere near the "best" as far as damage-dealing potential and all that character optimization jazz in order for the character to be absolutely bad-ass.
We use a homebrew alteration of the Berserker path that lightly changes it to fix its problems, it's been rather good in play so far and keeps up with all of the other characters, including a totem barbarian. Berzerkers aren't my personal cup of tea though, I like my Barbarians as warriors with just a touch of the mystical, so totem warrior, zealot, and ancestral are all more appealing to my mind.
There is only two things with Path of the Berserker that I find "bad". The first is that the level 3 frenzy ability is completely overshadowed by feats like Polearm or Great Weapon Master. Why risk exhaustion and neuter yourself outside of combat with disadvantage on all your skill checks when you can pick variant human (or pick up one of these phenomenal feats one level later) and still get a bonus action attack? Playing in a feat-less game would make Frenzy a lot more viable of an option. The second is that 3rd level bear totem is just oppressively good from a mechanics standpoint. Resistance on everything except psychic, a damage type that doesn't rear its head to often in the campaign books or in a lot of stories. Yes please. This single ability is a shining star of the level 3 Barbarian, and I have very rarely seen people pick anything other than that. In my opinion, level 3 bear totem needs to be toned down.
How do you alterthe berserker?
My suggestions would be if you wanted to remove exhaustion:
But I will stress that exhaustion isn't nearly as penalizing as people think it is. You might accrue about two levels of exhaustion before you take a long rest. The problem is that it is one of the few abilities that penalizes you rather than just limits.
The adventuring group with a Berserker barbarian could always buy a wagon for the barbarian to sleep in while travelling, so he/she can recover from Frenzy but not slow down the party.
An extra attack as a bonus action doesn't seem like a very good tradeoff, but combine that with reckless attack. 2 attacks with your greataxe with advantage? That's 1d12+str+2 damage w/ advantage on both attacks at lvl 3. If you wind up with an 18 str due to sweet rolls, you can do up to 36 damage in one turn. More if either of those attacks crit which is a higher possibility when you're attacking at advantage. More still if you're a half-orc and crit. So if you manage to crit both attacks and roll max damage on everything while being a half-orc, you deal 84 damage in one turn. That's pretty damn strong for lvl 3, even with the lvl of exhaustion.
I am so going to play a female Berserker barbarian at some point.
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