This post saved me. Here's what happened to me (4d6 drop 1, roll 7, drop lowest):
13 14 8 10 5 7 8 (drop the 5!)
Worst rolls in my 35 years of playing! But I am an experienced player. I can do this. Party needs a tank, so...
So I'm going human variant, barb, with durable feat, which gives me a workable STR 10, Dex 14, Con 16, Int. 7, Wis 8, Cha 8. Gives me AC17 and 15 hp with a shield at level one, and a possible future, esp with bear totem.
I would honestly consider a variant human dex barb with the Sentinel feat, taking the Zealot path. I don't have to be better than a str barb. I have to not be a detriment to my party. Why would I want to do this? Well, as an unarmored musketeer type, it's hard to beat the barb's unarmored toughness, especially since I can equip a buckler (shield). With rage, he's going to be hard to take down. Zealot makes the damage reasonable, with D8+d6. Sentinel gives them a reason to not ignore me; I mean they can if they want me to just hit them. I don't feel like the character would be poor at all.
Maybe it's not as strong as the strength version, but it fits my concept much better than a dex fighter or swashbuckler rogue, looks interesting to play, and does not look like a wasted spot in my party.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Dex Barb builds are actually pretty fun to tank with IMO.
With Barbarians unarmored defense, you can get up to 22 AC with a shield. With the damage resistances from Rage, you end up being insanely tanky.
Also worth mentioning that even if you are running a DEX based Barbarian build, you can still take advantage of strength and Rage damage bonuses. You do NOT necessarily have to use a finesse weapon.
As OP My Barbarian did not end up Dex based. He's now level 7 running through Tomb of Annihilation. Now I chose to be an Orc and the thematic appearance of the character in my mind didn't resemble an orc that fell on Dexterity and decided to take a more cautious levelling system, he now relies heavily on Greater Restoration and does have a ring of spell storing and a druid friend. This is a bit of a conundrum but adds fun. Other than that it's slicing through enemies with a flame tongue ::longsword::
Correct me if im wrong but don't finesse weapons count as str and dex weapons?
like you have a choice in how you use the weapon whether it be with skill or with brute strength.
That is correct, but if you choose to use dex instead of str, you do not get the benefit of the rage damage.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I find this thread awesome for my idea of a kobold barbarian, so yea thanks! At low levels losing out on the +2 damage seems like a good trade for having high AC to match with resistance, and with ancestral guardian you can pretty much lock down one enemy a turn, making it so he has o good options to attack.
Just made a barb 1/druid 2. I'll take majority battlemaster fighter levels going forward. Mostly dex, but when he wild shapes and rages he gains all the benefits and bonuses. When hes human form hes more tanky and doesnt rely on the bonuses (rapier and shield).
Started as a human variant barbarian with the stats (AL legal point buy) final stats at L1:
8 int
8 cha
13 str
16 dex
16 con
13 wis
+1 racial to con and wis (or dex), resilient feat gives +1 dex (or wis)
Gives enough ASIs for 2 more feats and to have Dex and Con @ 20.
Everything but Rage and spell slots recharges after short rest. Downside is delaying the extra attack a fighter gets to level 10, but brown bear can multi attack and you'll have enough maneuvers with wildshape to be a true battlefield controller.
It's an interesting idea but I think going to be terrible.
As you said you plan on taking: 1st lvl in Barbarian, that gives you max HP, Rage, Unarmored Defense. 2 in Druid to get: Spellcasting, Wild Shape, Circle of the Moon 5 level of Fighter to get: Fighting Style, 2nd Wind, Action Surge, Battlemaster, ASI, and Exta Attack 3 Barbarian to get: Reckless Attack, Danger Sense, Path of the Totem (Bear), and ASI. The Rest is Fighter levels.
Here is the problem. Unless you are wearing Gauntlets of Ogre Power your 13 Strength will make all of your Barbarian damage null when not Wildshaped. When you are Wild Shaped all your cool Proficiency Bonuses and Extra Attack are meaningless because at lvl 20 you'll be a Brown Bear with +5 to hit and 1d4+4 bite and 2d6+4 claw. Plus you'll have a measless 34 hp in Brown Bear form, we'll be kind and assume you're raging so it's effectively 68hp. You're AC will only be 13, because even if you have 20 Con and 20 Dex, a Brown Bear has 16 Con and 10 Dex.
In general Unarmored Defense only gives a Moon Druid +0 to +1 AC over natural Wild Shape. Most Fighting Styles don't work in Wild Shape: few have ranged attacks, none wear armor, wield a shield, nor hold weapons. Extra Attack will let you Claw twice instead of having to bite, but that's not a huge gain. At level 20 you're not using your +6 Proficiency, you're stuck with the Brown Bear's +1. You didn't state which Battle Master styles you are going for so I can't comment on them, but I don't see that out weighing everything else.
If you plan on relying on the Gauntlets of Ogre Power to have you Str score high enough, then you'll be a pretty decent fight/barbarian, but the Moon Druid aspect will be wasted after lvl 5. Also, because you don't have lvl 6 Moon Druid your attacks aren't magical.
As somone who has played a few Moon Druids and even a Moon Druid/Barbarian. They are *amazing* when you hit lvl 2 and get CR1s, but it quickly falls off. There is a reason why they have Elemental Wild Shape because almost no Beasts keep up being good.
If you're looking for alternative takes of the Dexterity Barbarian, I present the archer-tank: go full Dex, pick up a longbow and choose the Ancestral Guardian Path at level 3. Now your rage doesn't do anything for your damage output, but as long as you stay out of range and keep attacking, the big monster you're shooting has disadvantage and deals half damage with all its attacks against other targets.
Or go full Eagle Totem with Sharpshooter and shoot people from a range of 600', and this way you don't even have to use your rage unless you want to Dash as a bonus action.
I know what you're saying, completely agree. However my last sentence said you'd be a great "battlefield controller" if you wanted pure damage you wouldn't be a dex barb to begin with.
All maneuvers work with Wild Shape (except maybe Rally and Commanding ally, depends on your DM). All beast stats say bites, claws, stomps, etc are "melee weapon attacks". You don't need or get ranged attacks with Wild shape. Take the dueling fighting style for +2 damage when in regular shape and not raging. Use reckless attack when raging and Wild Shaped to offset the low proficiency to hit. It's just extra HP after all. I know that you wont be a huge damage dealer, but with trips, feints, precision attacks, ripostes, taunts and distracts you can be between the enemy and your team and offering advantage to them and disadvantage to the enemy. A boon to any party, regardless of how little damage you do.
(Also never had a game go to level 20, otherwise the Barb capstone is too good to pass up. I usually plan for 10. Everything after is gravy)
Dex really benefits unarmored defense, and you’ll have decent saving throws for all things physical. You’ll also benefit in avoiding dex-save based attacks your rage won’t help with, like breath attacks and fireball. Melds really well with shield master for that.
If you make a Tortle Dex based barbarian, you would be the ultimate tank. Tortles have natural armour of 17, so as a barb your AC would be 17 + Dex + Con, so with good rolls you could be over AC 20, then you could equip a shield for that additional +2 AC... You would be a monster of a damage sponge!
If you make a Tortle Dex based barbarian, you would be the ultimate tank. Tortles have natural armour of 17, so as a barb your AC would be 17 + Dex + Con, so with good rolls you could be over AC 20, then you could equip a shield for that additional +2 AC... You would be a monster of a damage sponge!
This is illegal. As a Tortle Barbarian, you can choose one of these options for calculating your AC:
Light Armor + Dex
Medium Armor + Dex (subject to cap)
Heavy Armor
10 + Dex + Con
17
None of those "stack", although any of them will stack with a shield. If you want 17 + a stat, Bladesinger Wizards can do that, letting a Tortle with Int 5 go to AC 22 naked.
Try a Dex based Barbarian and multi-class with Ranger; Variant Human Outlander (or a Wood Elf).
Start off with Dex and Con at 16 with feat: Resilient (Dex), STR 13 and Wis 13 so you can multi to Ranger (dump Int and Cha)
Start with 1 Level Barbarian, then go up 5 Ranger - Choose TWF (scimitars), and Choose Hunter, Colossus Slayer, and Choose Dex+2 Attribute bump
Then go up to Barbarian 3 and Choose Totem Warrior, Aspect of the Beast = Wolf.
Continue with Ranger taking Multi-Attack Defense +4, and bump Dex +2 at Ranger 8.
then take lvl 4 Barbarian at 12 lvl; take the Feat, Defensive Dualist for even more AC as a reaction (+proficiency bonus), then continue with Ranger to 20.
Pros:
You can TANK -
at lvl 12 your AC will be: AC18, AC 22 for follow up attacks, Up to AC 26 (+4 AC reaction), and you will have melee resistance while raging;
Pretty Decent Damage:
3x(2d6+5)+d8 w/ Hunter's Mark, OR
3x(1d6+5)+d8 and provide Advantage for your other melee friend(s)
Great Saves (STR, DEX and CON)
Great skills (6) - (I take Survival, Athletics, Perception, Stealth, Nature, History, Animal Handling)
Cons:
Could be tankier going with Dueling and using a Shield - but damage would suffer and this is already pretty dang tanky
Int and Cha saves and checks, but this isn't your area. History and Nature checks will still be good in your Favored Terrain
You will make an excellent outdoor guide, scout and tank
Maybe it's not as strong as the strength version, but it fits my concept much better than a dex fighter or swashbuckler rogue, looks interesting to play, and does not look like a wasted spot in my party.
I'm aware this is an old thread brought back. But I just want to point out that this here is the right mentality. Being the Best is not always the point.
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This post saved me. Here's what happened to me (4d6 drop 1, roll 7, drop lowest):
13 14 8 10 5 7 8 (drop the 5!)
Worst rolls in my 35 years of playing! But I am an experienced player. I can do this. Party needs a tank, so...
So I'm going human variant, barb, with durable feat, which gives me a workable STR 10, Dex 14, Con 16, Int. 7, Wis 8, Cha 8. Gives me AC17 and 15 hp with a shield at level one, and a possible future, esp with bear totem.
God forbid we fight any enchanters.
Thanks for the inspiring post!
Good races for DEX/CON build: Stout Halfling, Goblin, Air Genasi, Half Elf, Human (Variant), Sea Elf, and Shadar-Kai
Good subclasses: Totem / Ancestral Guardian
My build:
Built an Ancestral Guardian. I might not be very threatening in the damage department, but I can mark enemies and shield my allies.
29 AC, Cloak of Displacement
Flame Tongue Rapier for a little extra damage
Tough and Shield Master
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I would honestly consider a variant human dex barb with the Sentinel feat, taking the Zealot path. I don't have to be better than a str barb. I have to not be a detriment to my party. Why would I want to do this? Well, as an unarmored musketeer type, it's hard to beat the barb's unarmored toughness, especially since I can equip a buckler (shield). With rage, he's going to be hard to take down. Zealot makes the damage reasonable, with D8+d6. Sentinel gives them a reason to not ignore me; I mean they can if they want me to just hit them. I don't feel like the character would be poor at all.
Maybe it's not as strong as the strength version, but it fits my concept much better than a dex fighter or swashbuckler rogue, looks interesting to play, and does not look like a wasted spot in my party.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Dex Barb builds are actually pretty fun to tank with IMO.
With Barbarians unarmored defense, you can get up to 22 AC with a shield. With the damage resistances from Rage, you end up being insanely tanky.
Also worth mentioning that even if you are running a DEX based Barbarian build, you can still take advantage of strength and Rage damage bonuses. You do NOT necessarily have to use a finesse weapon.
As OP My Barbarian did not end up Dex based. He's now level 7 running through Tomb of Annihilation. Now I chose to be an Orc and the thematic appearance of the character in my mind didn't resemble an orc that fell on Dexterity and decided to take a more cautious levelling system, he now relies heavily on Greater Restoration and does have a ring of spell storing and a druid friend. This is a bit of a conundrum but adds fun. Other than that it's slicing through enemies with a flame tongue ::longsword::
Correct me if im wrong but don't finesse weapons count as str and dex weapons?
like you have a choice in how you use the weapon whether it be with skill or with brute strength.
you dont have to use Dex with a finesse weapon. You just can.
That is correct, but if you choose to use dex instead of str, you do not get the benefit of the rage damage.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I find this thread awesome for my idea of a kobold barbarian, so yea thanks! At low levels losing out on the +2 damage seems like a good trade for having high AC to match with resistance, and with ancestral guardian you can pretty much lock down one enemy a turn, making it so he has o good options to attack.
Just made a barb 1/druid 2. I'll take majority battlemaster fighter levels going forward. Mostly dex, but when he wild shapes and rages he gains all the benefits and bonuses. When hes human form hes more tanky and doesnt rely on the bonuses (rapier and shield).
Started as a human variant barbarian with the stats (AL legal point buy) final stats at L1:
8 int
8 cha
13 str
16 dex
16 con
13 wis
+1 racial to con and wis (or dex), resilient feat gives +1 dex (or wis)
Str Dex (or Wis) and Con saving throws.
Level 3: Barb 1 / Druid 2
Level 6: BM fighter 3/ barb 1/ druid 2
Level 10: BM fighter 5/barb 3 (bear totem)/druid 2
Level 11: BM fighter 5/barb 4/druid 2
Level 20: BM fighter 14/barb4/druid 2 (moon)
Pick up the "Tough" feat at some point.
Gives enough ASIs for 2 more feats and to have Dex and Con @ 20.
Everything but Rage and spell slots recharges after short rest. Downside is delaying the extra attack a fighter gets to level 10, but brown bear can multi attack and you'll have enough maneuvers with wildshape to be a true battlefield controller.
Dog_Torch,
It's an interesting idea but I think going to be terrible.
As you said you plan on taking:
1st lvl in Barbarian, that gives you max HP, Rage, Unarmored Defense.
2 in Druid to get: Spellcasting, Wild Shape, Circle of the Moon
5 level of Fighter to get: Fighting Style, 2nd Wind, Action Surge, Battlemaster, ASI, and Exta Attack
3 Barbarian to get: Reckless Attack, Danger Sense, Path of the Totem (Bear), and ASI.
The Rest is Fighter levels.
Here is the problem. Unless you are wearing Gauntlets of Ogre Power your 13 Strength will make all of your Barbarian damage null when not Wildshaped.
When you are Wild Shaped all your cool Proficiency Bonuses and Extra Attack are meaningless because at lvl 20 you'll be a Brown Bear with +5 to hit and 1d4+4 bite and 2d6+4 claw.
Plus you'll have a measless 34 hp in Brown Bear form, we'll be kind and assume you're raging so it's effectively 68hp. You're AC will only be 13, because even if you have 20 Con and 20 Dex, a Brown Bear has 16 Con and 10 Dex.
In general Unarmored Defense only gives a Moon Druid +0 to +1 AC over natural Wild Shape.
Most Fighting Styles don't work in Wild Shape: few have ranged attacks, none wear armor, wield a shield, nor hold weapons.
Extra Attack will let you Claw twice instead of having to bite, but that's not a huge gain.
At level 20 you're not using your +6 Proficiency, you're stuck with the Brown Bear's +1.
You didn't state which Battle Master styles you are going for so I can't comment on them, but I don't see that out weighing everything else.
If you plan on relying on the Gauntlets of Ogre Power to have you Str score high enough, then you'll be a pretty decent fight/barbarian, but the Moon Druid aspect will be wasted after lvl 5.
Also, because you don't have lvl 6 Moon Druid your attacks aren't magical.
As somone who has played a few Moon Druids and even a Moon Druid/Barbarian. They are *amazing* when you hit lvl 2 and get CR1s, but it quickly falls off. There is a reason why they have Elemental Wild Shape because almost no Beasts keep up being good.
If you're looking for alternative takes of the Dexterity Barbarian, I present the archer-tank: go full Dex, pick up a longbow and choose the Ancestral Guardian Path at level 3. Now your rage doesn't do anything for your damage output, but as long as you stay out of range and keep attacking, the big monster you're shooting has disadvantage and deals half damage with all its attacks against other targets.
Or go full Eagle Totem with Sharpshooter and shoot people from a range of 600', and this way you don't even have to use your rage unless you want to Dash as a bonus action.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Dex really benefits unarmored defense, and you’ll have decent saving throws for all things physical. You’ll also benefit in avoiding dex-save based attacks your rage won’t help with, like breath attacks and fireball. Melds really well with shield master for that.
Has anyone tried a subclass where you play a barbarian, but anytime a class feature says "Strength", replace it with "Dexterity" or "Finesse"?
If you make a Tortle Dex based barbarian, you would be the ultimate tank. Tortles have natural armour of 17, so as a barb your AC would be 17 + Dex + Con, so with good rolls you could be over AC 20, then you could equip a shield for that additional +2 AC... You would be a monster of a damage sponge!
This is illegal. As a Tortle Barbarian, you can choose one of these options for calculating your AC:
Light Armor + Dex
Medium Armor + Dex (subject to cap)
Heavy Armor
10 + Dex + Con
17
None of those "stack", although any of them will stack with a shield. If you want 17 + a stat, Bladesinger Wizards can do that, letting a Tortle with Int 5 go to AC 22 naked.
Yeah, I just realised it says Dex modifier doesn't stack with the natural armour.
Sorry, I'm still learning the rules for different classes and builds etc.
Try a Dex based Barbarian and multi-class with Ranger; Variant Human Outlander (or a Wood Elf).
Start off with Dex and Con at 16 with feat: Resilient (Dex), STR 13 and Wis 13 so you can multi to Ranger (dump Int and Cha)
Start with 1 Level Barbarian, then go up 5 Ranger - Choose TWF (scimitars), and Choose Hunter, Colossus Slayer, and Choose Dex+2 Attribute bump
Then go up to Barbarian 3 and Choose Totem Warrior, Aspect of the Beast = Wolf.
Continue with Ranger taking Multi-Attack Defense +4, and bump Dex +2 at Ranger 8.
then take lvl 4 Barbarian at 12 lvl; take the Feat, Defensive Dualist for even more AC as a reaction (+proficiency bonus), then continue with Ranger to 20.
Pros:
Cons:
You will make an excellent outdoor guide, scout and tank
I'm aware this is an old thread brought back. But I just want to point out that this here is the right mentality. Being the Best is not always the point.