... The problem is Bards don't really have much in the way of offensive cantrips - because they're not really designed as the main damage dealer, they're mostly controllers. The only two choices are Thunderclap (TC) or Vicious Mockery (VM). TC is not bad, it affects all enemies within 5 ft and does 1d6, but it's a Con save which enemies often get a lot of so it's more highly resisted and the save-or-suck often-resisted cantrip will dwindle as you level, and the 5 ft "all creatures" (including allies) will quite quickly become not worth it. You're a 1d8 spellchucker with minimal defenses, bar one or two higher subclass level features, dafluff you goin' to melee for and for such a piddly cantrip?
VM on the other hand, is more useful. It's not saved as often, being Wisdom and it's got a tidy 60 ft range, which is fine 'nuff, against most enemies. Sure the 1d4 isn't a lot. But as been said, you're not the damage-dealing guy. So it's that disadvantage to next attack you want. Besides against a commoner, who has only 4 hit points, +0 Wis save and +2 to hit, you could, most probably, be able to just there and insult then to death as they're unable to hit you. Most enemies you start facing won't have many hit points and usually only have one attack - so the damage is OK and that disadvantage could be a life-saver. Even when enemies get multiattack, that disadvantage to one of them might cause a miss and save you/an ally. Unlike TC, VM combos well with other spells like Bane : -1d4 and disadvantage to one attack? That's a decent nerf to an enemy and could make a big difference.
Out of those two, VM for sure. The occurrence of single attack enemies and the damage output from Vicious Mockery don’t really drop off terribly until third tier (11th-level and higher) and most campaigns end around there anyway.
If you have access to Tasha’s then I also suggest considering Mind Sliver because it’s slightly better on damage, the save type (Int) is rarely proficient, and it gives a debuff to a save (instead of an attack) so it can be more reliably combined with teammates’ features and spells.
I was wondering which damage dealing cantrip for Bards is better. What do you think?
Thunderclap is Sword Burst but worse. Vicious Mockery is unquestionably better than Thunderclap. A much better question is Vicious Mockery vs Mind Sliver, which depends on many factors.
Out of those two, VM for sure. The occurrence of single attack enemies and the damage output from Vicious Mockery don’t really drop off terribly until third tier (11th-level and higher) and most campaigns end around there anyway.
If you have access to Tasha’s then I also suggest considering Mind Sliver because it’s slightly better on damage, the save type (Int) is rarely proficient, and it gives a debuff to a save (instead of an attack) so it can be more reliably combined with teammates’ features and spells.
Scenario for thunderclap to be better. You need that sound for a reason. Maybe to trigger an avalanche. Maybe cause a cave in. Maybe to alert others/wake the party while you’re alone on watch.
Vicious Mockery thunderclap.
I was wondering which damage dealing cantrip for Bards is better. What do you think?
Erean Cabenrith a Variant Human Cleric (Light Domain)
Eliem Lightblossom a High Elf Blood Hunter
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I've already gone over this in a different thread so I'll just quote it here. But, yeah VM is better than Thunderclap. For me, it's no contest.
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Out of those two, VM for sure. The occurrence of single attack enemies and the damage output from Vicious Mockery don’t really drop off terribly until third tier (11th-level and higher) and most campaigns end around there anyway.
If you have access to Tasha’s then I also suggest considering Mind Sliver because it’s slightly better on damage, the save type (Int) is rarely proficient, and it gives a debuff to a save (instead of an attack) so it can be more reliably combined with teammates’ features and spells.
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Thunderclap is Sword Burst but worse. Vicious Mockery is unquestionably better than Thunderclap. A much better question is Vicious Mockery vs Mind Sliver, which depends on many factors.
Yeah, they both have pros and cons.
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Vicious Mockery lets you insult people to death.
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Thanks! I actually forgot about mind sliver.
Thanks for the feedback.
Erean Cabenrith a Variant Human Cleric (Light Domain)
Eliem Lightblossom a High Elf Blood Hunter
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Mind Sliver is not on the bard spell list (though it is certainly better than Vicious Mockery in most circumstances).
Enough enough to obtain, though.
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Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard. A single 1 level dip into either of these will let you get the spell as a cantrip choice.
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Scenario for thunderclap to be better. You need that sound for a reason. Maybe to trigger an avalanche. Maybe cause a cave in. Maybe to alert others/wake the party while you’re alone on watch.
Majority of situations. Vicious mockery.
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VM does fall of at high level, things with 5 multiattacks giving 1 of them disadvantage isn't a big deal.