I usually DM, but in the rare cases my brother takes the lead I play a bard, I simply love the class and would love to DM for one , but no one wants to do it saying it is not so powerfull, my group is mainly HP bags with little to no support, TPK has been looming for while , any ideas on how to convince them to be a bard or any support class for that matter ?
What got me was the skills and spell flexibility of the bards.
Hey bro do you want to win ALL the skill checks? go bard?
want to cast a level 3 paladin spells before they can? bard...
another thing to help.. Make sure they know they don't have to use music... Flavor how you change the things anyway that fits the world you built. I had a friend that every ability he used was just "Lucky happenstance"
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Difficult question. It sounds as if the people involved care more about high numbers than interesting abilities, which really define a (good) bard. Or on personal glory rather than team-play, and yet team-play really defines a good bard too.
I'm tempted to say phrase it as a challenge rather than a suggestion!
But you could try showing bards from the College of Valor, or go into the Unearthen Arcana for Swords. Something more combat-oriented/exciting. Point out things like expertise on Athletics checks, Bardic Inspiration on damage and AC as well, two attacks and yet the ability to cast a great mixture of awesome spells such as Invisibility.
Worst case, link them some YouTube videos of Scanlan from Critical Role. One of the most fun bards I have ever seen.
Place more emphasis on battlefield tactics, role playing, town/city interaction, social encounters, and interesting skill checks. In a typical combat-oriented session with straight forward exchange of blows and minimal opportunity for tactics and creativity, bards tend to fade into the background.
What Xeno said, Bards are great not necessarily in standard combat but really shine outside of it. Bard spells are great for being the party spokesperson & dealing with persuading peeps, as well as filling any gaps or shortcomings in the party in general.
Semirelated, if your players are money hoarders, then the entertainer background (which fits nicely with the bard class) might also encourage them, cos you got that free modest/comfortable lodging with the By Popular Demand feature.
If you've got any smart asses, you could try to sell them on the UA college of satire bard on the grounds that instead of earning your ire with their wisecracks they could be earning inspiration. ;)
It's going to be really difficult if the players have no interest in supporting one another or truly roleplaying. Giving opponents disadvantage with Vicious Mockery can be great fun if the group is actually emoting what their characters are saying. Bardic Inspiration can be very helpful too. I was very pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed being the player to tip the scales, but not actually swing the sword.
I would sometimes tell my players that the damage done by one player was theirs as well as they would not have hit with out their buffs.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
I've always found "You can do damage to someone... by insulting them." to be one of the most persuasive arguments for being a bard. I can see that some people may find the bard intimidating if they think they're not very witty / clever themselves. In that case, you could always tell them that the best bards come prepared with a list of clever witticisms.
I ended up picking Bard as more of joke, to fool around during the campaign. But when we lost both of our healers to IRL scheduling changes, having those Magical Secrets really saved the group more times than I can remember.
I usually DM, but in the rare cases my brother takes the lead I play a bard, I simply love the class and would love to DM for one , but no one wants to do it saying it is not so powerfull, my group is mainly HP bags with little to no support, TPK has been looming for while , any ideas on how to convince them to be a bard or any support class for that matter ?
I always like to sell Bards as Orators. Someone that passes on oral traditions. They know lore and songs of heroic deeds. They are able to use their voice and knowledge to tap into magical abilities!
Sure they can play instruments but their not always a performer. No, Bards can crack skulls and be lore masters of Barbarian tribes. No one attacks the neighboring tribe without allowing them to interpret the signs and look into their history for advice! Bards are badass :)
I usually DM, but in the rare cases my brother takes the lead I play a bard, I simply love the class and would love to DM for one , but no one wants to do it saying it is not so powerfull, my group is mainly HP bags with little to no support, TPK has been looming for while , any ideas on how to convince them to be a bard or any support class for that matter ?
Why not create a bard npc (or several,) and beat the heck out of your party with them? Best way to demonstrate viability of control spells and buff spells imo. One good Hold or Dominate Person can be very 'persuasive'
First of all, have a lot of interpretation needs and non fighting interactions. Most of time, play D&D could be resumed by killing creatures and fight on taverns and some classes are not so "intresting" to play that situations (try to explain what is D&D to a newbie and say me that you dont use the struggles to exemple) .
Try to apply much importance to interpretative situations and turn the combat just important how much it needs to be, maybe doing it you shoud inspirate your group to figure how awesome could be interpretate a unusual character.
One of my tricks to do it (in any case, not just to bard) is create important NPC's and interpretate it in a way I think the players will love it, make it iconic, memorable. Eventually the player will remember that character when him/her create a new character and its possible that could be inspirative.
As someone else touched on above, it REALLY depends on the style of game your group plays - if it's heavy combat, then it's difficult for a Bard to really shine.
Conversely, in low combat campaigns, a good Bard can be really overpowering, as they're just straight better at interaction than everyone else and if you want to go do a thing? You sure as hell want a bard with you, if you want to be successful!
Actually I lead a group with a Bard player (and is his firt time in roleplay, trust me) and also he is the most rich character in the group. He always playing his lute at the tavern or streets, and keep trying to shedule apresentation to the king. If you don't sell the bard explaining how important it is to the group, try to "buy" your players.
I usually DM, but in the rare cases my brother takes the lead I play a bard, I simply love the class and would love to DM for one , but no one wants to do it saying it is not so powerfull, my group is mainly HP bags with little to no support, TPK has been looming for while , any ideas on how to convince them to be a bard or any support class for that matter ?
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What do you do?
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What got me was the skills and spell flexibility of the bards.
Hey bro do you want to win ALL the skill checks? go bard?
want to cast a level 3 paladin spells before they can? bard...
another thing to help.. Make sure they know they don't have to use music... Flavor how you change the things anyway that fits the world you built. I had a friend that every ability he used was just "Lucky happenstance"
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Difficult question. It sounds as if the people involved care more about high numbers than interesting abilities, which really define a (good) bard. Or on personal glory rather than team-play, and yet team-play really defines a good bard too.
I'm tempted to say phrase it as a challenge rather than a suggestion!
But you could try showing bards from the College of Valor, or go into the Unearthen Arcana for Swords. Something more combat-oriented/exciting. Point out things like expertise on Athletics checks, Bardic Inspiration on damage and AC as well, two attacks and yet the ability to cast a great mixture of awesome spells such as Invisibility.
Worst case, link them some YouTube videos of Scanlan from Critical Role. One of the most fun bards I have ever seen.
The Bards - jack-of-all-trades, master-of-fun.
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Place more emphasis on battlefield tactics, role playing, town/city interaction, social encounters, and interesting skill checks. In a typical combat-oriented session with straight forward exchange of blows and minimal opportunity for tactics and creativity, bards tend to fade into the background.
What Xeno said, Bards are great not necessarily in standard combat but really shine outside of it. Bard spells are great for being the party spokesperson & dealing with persuading peeps, as well as filling any gaps or shortcomings in the party in general.
Semirelated, if your players are money hoarders, then the entertainer background (which fits nicely with the bard class) might also encourage them, cos you got that free modest/comfortable lodging with the By Popular Demand feature.
If you've got any smart asses, you could try to sell them on the UA college of satire bard on the grounds that instead of earning your ire with their wisecracks they could be earning inspiration. ;)
It's going to be really difficult if the players have no interest in supporting one another or truly roleplaying. Giving opponents disadvantage with Vicious Mockery can be great fun if the group is actually emoting what their characters are saying. Bardic Inspiration can be very helpful too. I was very pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed being the player to tip the scales, but not actually swing the sword.
From a mechanial perspective, bard is best supportive class. Buff/debuff, healing, mass control, skill checks...it is the d&d factotum.
From a roleplaying ponit of view, it can be a storyteller/musician, spy, lore master...
I would sometimes tell my players that the damage done by one player was theirs as well as they would not have hit with out their buffs.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
I've always found "You can do damage to someone... by insulting them." to be one of the most persuasive arguments for being a bard. I can see that some people may find the bard intimidating if they think they're not very witty / clever themselves. In that case, you could always tell them that the best bards come prepared with a list of clever witticisms.
I ended up picking Bard as more of joke, to fool around during the campaign. But when we lost both of our healers to IRL scheduling changes, having those Magical Secrets really saved the group more times than I can remember.
"I'm going to heal you... with music."
First of all, have a lot of interpretation needs and non fighting interactions. Most of time, play D&D could be resumed by killing creatures and fight on taverns and some classes are not so "intresting" to play that situations (try to explain what is D&D to a newbie and say me that you dont use the struggles to exemple) .
Try to apply much importance to interpretative situations and turn the combat just important how much it needs to be, maybe doing it you shoud inspirate your group to figure how awesome could be interpretate a unusual character.
One of my tricks to do it (in any case, not just to bard) is create important NPC's and interpretate it in a way I think the players will love it, make it iconic, memorable. Eventually the player will remember that character when him/her create a new character and its possible that could be inspirative.
As someone else touched on above, it REALLY depends on the style of game your group plays - if it's heavy combat, then it's difficult for a Bard to really shine.
Conversely, in low combat campaigns, a good Bard can be really overpowering, as they're just straight better at interaction than everyone else and if you want to go do a thing? You sure as hell want a bard with you, if you want to be successful!
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Another situation.
Actually I lead a group with a Bard player (and is his firt time in roleplay, trust me) and also he is the most rich character in the group. He always playing his lute at the tavern or streets, and keep trying to shedule apresentation to the king. If you don't sell the bard explaining how important it is to the group, try to "buy" your players.
Have PCs attacked by a group of thugs with an awesome bard to show them what the bard can do.
Works even better if you can show off what the bard can do skull wise as well.
I would add, let a player know they don't have to sing or do other silly things during the game if they aren't comfortable doing it.
i don't know about that one, i mean if he/she visibly uncomfortable yeah, but I'd like to encourage since maybe that will relax them and take on RP
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What do you do?
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