As stated in the Silmarilion, Gandalf is one of two things: He is either the god who created the universe (Think Odin but with more....oomph) or he is a demigod. Either way, he is far more than can be expressed in a single PHB class :)
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Very astute. As for the lightning thing, when Gandalf is caught with the dwarves by goblins (in the Hobbit), he creates a clap of lightning-like stuff and strikes down a dozen goblins.
As stated in the Silmarilion, Gandalf is one of two things: He is either the god who created the universe (Think Odin but with more....oomph) or he is a demigod. Either way, he is far more than can be expressed in a single PHB class :)
You're right. He could be an artificer, actually. There isn't much to support that except for the fireworks, though.
As stated in the Silmarilion, Gandalf is one of two things: He is either the god who created the universe (Think Odin but with more....oomph) or he is a demigod. Either way, he is far more than can be expressed in a single PHB class :)
You're right. He could be an artificer, actually. There isn't much to support that except for the fireworks, though.
You mean other than the actual books written by Tolkien? Are you actually saying that you know more about the character than the author who created and wrote about him. He is literally described as a Divine Being. He is not human. He is Divine energy in corporeal form. You can play word games and ignore the written lore as much as you want but it makes no difference, JRT you are not.
As stated in the Silmarilion, Gandalf is one of two things: He is either the god who created the universe (Think Odin but with more....oomph) or he is a demigod. Either way, he is far more than can be expressed in a single PHB class :)
You're right. He could be an artificer, actually. There isn't much to support that except for the fireworks, though.
You mean other than the actual books written by Tolkien? Are you actually saying that you know more about the character than the author who created and wrote about him. He is literally described as a Divine Being. He is not human. He is Divine energy in corporeal form. You can play word games and ignore the written lore as much as you want but it makes no difference, JRT you are not.
I said that it was a possible argument. I do not think he is an artificer.
Bard is a hard stretch. Partly because even though the world of Tolkien does use the "Song of the World" creation myth. It's more correct to say that most of the "Gods" are actually more like Sentient instruments of the Creator God rather than full on musicians themselves. Sauron's Origin stems in refusing to play in harmony with the others more than anything else and the creation of the races aren't all described musically and are imitations of seeing and helping in the Creator God's creation of the First Race as most of the individual gods understood it for themselves.
And there is still the issue that part divine being or not. Gandalf does nothing musical and very little that can be deemed as Show Worthy that can't be done by really any magical class. He actually spends more of his time being a stage hand behind the curtain pulling various ropes and pulley's and levers to make the show work. It's just in his case the ropes and pulley's and levers are often People that he drags into various places to actually play parts. Now I can see a bit of an argument for this being bard. But keep in mind. Many directors and some professional stage hands are not on the stage for a reason. That's not to say the talented ones can't double into these roles but if the support is there those that I have dealt with would rather focus on being on stage most often.
Strange thing; he doesn't use much magic in the books, actually. And the few spells he does use would probably fall into the illusion and enchanting schools. And he is sneaky, alongside swordfighting with the best of them.
I personally would run gandalf as type of Cleric. He is a servant of Eru Iluvatar and only has his powers because Eru grants him it, a bit like a Cleric (though I'd say that in Middle Earth, since Tolkien doesn't actually show us much about the faiths of the peoples of middle earth, Clerics depicted as magical priests/preachers doesn't exist in middle earth). For race, I go with some type of Aasimar, with all but Fallen being a good for for it. You could argue that he fits the mold of many different types of Cleric like Arcana, War, Tempest, Etc... I personally like to go with Light domain. Gandalf is said mostly summon light and fire, which is the speciality of Light Clerics. Their channel divinity is also quite similar to the abilities used against the Nazhul in the books (Though its not perfect).
I personally see that this build isn't and never really will be perfect. Lotr honestly doesn't fit incredibly well in D&D, primarily in the areas of magic. Magic is left very vague but is very powerful in Lotr, with both of its primary users (Sarumon and Gandalf) not actually using it all that much. This kinda clashes with D&D conception of magic, where magic is litterally so well developed and refined that is been put down to a mathmatical system based on slots, with their being litterally no mystery to how it works for both the players or the characters (well, at least the well educated characters in places like the forgotten realms and greyhawk). Also, depending on your own game or how faithful you are to specific elements, a lot of stuff could actually fit the mold for Gandalf.
And to be honest, Gandalf isn't a player character. He's a mentor NPC with skills with spells and swords.
Gandalf at least is a wizard. Maybe he multiclassed into a fighter to get proficiencies in swords. Not too many levels because Gandalf knows at least some spells. So I guess he's a Wizard lvl 15, who took 3 lvls in the fighter class. Obviously he didn't spent so many years in biblioteques or Wizard schools to learn more spells, that's why he lacks, probably, in spells like Fireball, Thunderclap, and other elemental spells. Now I understand why Gandalf never showed his familiar, nore the spellbook. He learned cavalry, which it made me think about how many fighter levels he took to learn such ability/proficiency.
Gandalf probably is not the best archetype to be defined as a usual wizard, maybe we sould take a view at Fistandantilus ( Dragonlance saga ), and Merlin ( Kingdom Hearts saga ).
Gandalf is a Aasimar Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Blade. Probably level 10 or lower. I mean have you seen the man cast multiple spells at once? That is the telltale sign of the 2 spellslots curse lol.
Gandalf is a Aasimar Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Blade. Probably level 10 or lower. I mean have you seen the man cast multiple spells at once? That is the telltale sign of the 2 spellslots curse lol.
We actually have seen him cast multiple spells. Visually in the movies in the Wizard Duel in the second book they both cast a whole bunch of spells including multiple shield spells, Telekenesis spells and other effects. In the books he actually casts magic in the retelling of the battle against the Balrog in Moria when he fights it and does not just fight it with sword and staff.
Also he's part of a society that actually has rules about how much magic that he can cast. He actually has far more magic than he ever uses in the books. he's under instructions not to use magic more than he has to.
If you all are full-convinced Gandalf is a Bard, then
Why does he never wears any Light Armor ??? Why does he never uses his pipe just to produce musical effects, or make music ??? Why didn't he used the Persuasionskill to force that Demogorgon leave away that cave (( on that ""YOU SHALL NOT PASS" scene )) ??? If Gandalf is a BARD, why does he never sang a single song while he was at the Hobbit's village ??? If Gandalf is a BARD, then why does he never weared a single musical instrument ????
If you all are full-convinced Gandalf is a Bard, then
Why does he never wears any Light Armor ??? Why does he never uses his pipe just to produce musical effects, or make music ??? Why didn't he used the Persuasionskill to force that Demogorgon leave away that cave (( on that ""YOU SHALL NOT PASS" scene )) ??? If Gandalf is a BARD, why does he never sang a single song while he was at the Hobbit's village ??? If Gandalf is a BARD, then why does he never weared a single musical instrument ????
Although I still reckon Gandalf is a Warlock I'll have a go answering your questions.
1. He learned Mage Armor with Magical Secrets
2. Bards don't always need to be musicians they can also be poets, actors etc. Gandalf is one of the other types.
If you all are full-convinced Gandalf is a Bard, then
Why does he never wears any Light Armor ??? Why does he never uses his pipe just to produce musical effects, or make music ??? Why didn't he used the Persuasionskill to force that Demogorgon leave away that cave (( on that ""YOU SHALL NOT PASS" scene )) ??? If Gandalf is a BARD, why does he never sang a single song while he was at the Hobbit's village ??? If Gandalf is a BARD, then why does he never weared a single musical instrument ????
He chooses to travel light. Just because he doesn't do something doesn't mean he cannot.
Because you are thinking or entertainers, not bards.
His DM recognized that persuading the Balrog to go home wasn't a possible check. Favors from persuasion are small and based on the tables and not likely in such a case, but I would question why you think bards don't fight their enemies and would automatically try to persuade an opponent. Bard fight things all the time.
Gandalf sang many times in the books.
He travels light, sings, and tells stories to preserve tales and inspire others to take action. He's not a travelling musician.
As stated in the Silmarilion, Gandalf is one of two things: He is either the god who created the universe (Think Odin but with more....oomph) or he is a demigod. Either way, he is far more than can be expressed in a single PHB class :)
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Very astute. As for the lightning thing, when Gandalf is caught with the dwarves by goblins (in the Hobbit), he creates a clap of lightning-like stuff and strikes down a dozen goblins.
Beardy druid.
Very beardy druid. With a cap.
You're right. He could be an artificer, actually. There isn't much to support that except for the fireworks, though.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
You mean other than the actual books written by Tolkien? Are you actually saying that you know more about the character than the author who created and wrote about him. He is literally described as a Divine Being. He is not human. He is Divine energy in corporeal form. You can play word games and ignore the written lore as much as you want but it makes no difference, JRT you are not.
I said that it was a possible argument. I do not think he is an artificer.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
So Aasimar Bard/Druid multiclass?
Bard is a hard stretch. Partly because even though the world of Tolkien does use the "Song of the World" creation myth. It's more correct to say that most of the "Gods" are actually more like Sentient instruments of the Creator God rather than full on musicians themselves. Sauron's Origin stems in refusing to play in harmony with the others more than anything else and the creation of the races aren't all described musically and are imitations of seeing and helping in the Creator God's creation of the First Race as most of the individual gods understood it for themselves.
And there is still the issue that part divine being or not. Gandalf does nothing musical and very little that can be deemed as Show Worthy that can't be done by really any magical class. He actually spends more of his time being a stage hand behind the curtain pulling various ropes and pulley's and levers to make the show work. It's just in his case the ropes and pulley's and levers are often People that he drags into various places to actually play parts. Now I can see a bit of an argument for this being bard. But keep in mind. Many directors and some professional stage hands are not on the stage for a reason. That's not to say the talented ones can't double into these roles but if the support is there those that I have dealt with would rather focus on being on stage most often.
Strange thing; he doesn't use much magic in the books, actually. And the few spells he does use would probably fall into the illusion and enchanting schools. And he is sneaky, alongside swordfighting with the best of them.
So really... he is an arcane trickster rogue.
Or a bladesinger?
Beardy druid.
Very beardy druid. With a cap.
I personally would run gandalf as type of Cleric. He is a servant of Eru Iluvatar and only has his powers because Eru grants him it, a bit like a Cleric (though I'd say that in Middle Earth, since Tolkien doesn't actually show us much about the faiths of the peoples of middle earth, Clerics depicted as magical priests/preachers doesn't exist in middle earth). For race, I go with some type of Aasimar, with all but Fallen being a good for for it. You could argue that he fits the mold of many different types of Cleric like Arcana, War, Tempest, Etc... I personally like to go with Light domain. Gandalf is said mostly summon light and fire, which is the speciality of Light Clerics. Their channel divinity is also quite similar to the abilities used against the Nazhul in the books (Though its not perfect).
I personally see that this build isn't and never really will be perfect. Lotr honestly doesn't fit incredibly well in D&D, primarily in the areas of magic. Magic is left very vague but is very powerful in Lotr, with both of its primary users (Sarumon and Gandalf) not actually using it all that much. This kinda clashes with D&D conception of magic, where magic is litterally so well developed and refined that is been put down to a mathmatical system based on slots, with their being litterally no mystery to how it works for both the players or the characters (well, at least the well educated characters in places like the forgotten realms and greyhawk). Also, depending on your own game or how faithful you are to specific elements, a lot of stuff could actually fit the mold for Gandalf.
And to be honest, Gandalf isn't a player character. He's a mentor NPC with skills with spells and swords.
Gandalf at least is a wizard. Maybe he multiclassed into a fighter to get proficiencies in swords. Not too many levels because Gandalf knows at least some spells. So I guess he's a Wizard lvl 15, who took 3 lvls in the fighter class.
Obviously he didn't spent so many years in biblioteques or Wizard schools to learn more spells, that's why he lacks, probably, in spells like Fireball, Thunderclap, and other elemental spells. Now I understand why Gandalf never showed his familiar, nore the spellbook. He learned cavalry, which it made me think about how many fighter levels he took to learn such ability/proficiency.
Gandalf probably is not the best archetype to be defined as a usual wizard, maybe we sould take a view at Fistandantilus ( Dragonlance saga ), and Merlin ( Kingdom Hearts saga ).
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Naw, Gandalf is based on mythological bards from whom Tolkien drew inspiration. All wizards are bards who forgot their roots. So is Merlin. ;-)
Back in the day those were retired PCs.
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Gandalf is a Aasimar Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Blade. Probably level 10 or lower. I mean have you seen the man cast multiple spells at once? That is the telltale sign of the 2 spellslots curse lol.
We actually have seen him cast multiple spells. Visually in the movies in the Wizard Duel in the second book they both cast a whole bunch of spells including multiple shield spells, Telekenesis spells and other effects. In the books he actually casts magic in the retelling of the battle against the Balrog in Moria when he fights it and does not just fight it with sword and staff.
Also he's part of a society that actually has rules about how much magic that he can cast. He actually has far more magic than he ever uses in the books. he's under instructions not to use magic more than he has to.
If you all are full-convinced Gandalf is a Bard, then
Why does he never wears any Light Armor ???
Why does he never uses his pipe just to produce musical effects, or make music ???
Why didn't he used the Persuasion skill to force that Demogorgon leave away that cave (( on that ""YOU SHALL NOT PASS" scene )) ???
If Gandalf is a BARD, why does he never sang a single song while he was at the Hobbit's village ???
If Gandalf is a BARD, then why does he never weared a single musical instrument ????
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Although I still reckon Gandalf is a Warlock I'll have a go answering your questions.
1. He learned Mage Armor with Magical Secrets
2. Bards don't always need to be musicians they can also be poets, actors etc. Gandalf is one of the other types.
3. He rolled a nat 1 for his Persuasion check.
4. and 5. See point 2.
Gandalf is a Wild Magic Barbarian.
I don't think that at any point in LotR does Gandalf sing
And all the other arguments just as easily apply to bladesinger
Hi, I am not a chest. I deny with 100% certainty that I am a chest. I can neither confirm nor deny what I am beyond that.
I used to portray Krathian, Q'ilbrith, Jim, Tara, Turin, Nathan, Tench, Finn, Alvin, and other characters in various taverns.
I also do homebrew, check out my Spells and Magic Items
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons, even death may die"